Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Sometimes you need to blow something out of proportion to show the absurdity of the argument.

Case and point about Gorton, JD, Drury and Quinn all putting their careers ahead of what is good for the team and doing things that stung the growth of prospects because of it.

I've told you a million times to stop exaggerating.

 

[True Blue]

I've told you a million times to stop exaggerating.

I know, I know. Am working on it

 

[Peltz]

It is about the kids when we topic is the development of the kids. I get it, development is secondary to gaining the playoffs with a team that is not anywhere near ready to win. Wins are important to the coaching staff and the FO. But...

If you are not realistically pushing for a Stanley cup win (the NYR is far away), and the development of your SC capable future is secondary (bury the kids), what ARE you doing?

I don't think giving the kids 18 minutes in blowout games is going to realistically "speed up their development". Involving them in a game in which 4 lines are rolling and playing with a lead seems a lot more valuable.

I just don't get how throwing away the team's structure because they're up by a few goals teaches them how to be better pro hockey players. Like, think about it. You're worried more about their stats at this point than their actual development. Part of being a good professional is understanding that the organization does not revolve around you. And you need to earn your ice time.

There's a lot more to developing these players than just giving them ice time.

 

[aufheben]

The development is clearly not front and center when they get third line minutes with Smith and Hajek. That's not assuming anything. That's just an observation.

Look at Montreal and how they have failed to develop kids within their own organization for 2 decades. They failed because the FO and coaching staff put their own careers and immediate playoff appearances above the long term future and development of a winning team.

This is the exact game the NYR are playing right now with Quinn.

It’s a poor observation.

Kakko and Lafreniere were handed permanent spots in the lineup before ever even touching AHL ice. Up and down the lineup. They didn’t work for it or earn it.

Those kids are literally the 1% of NHL players.

 

[True Blue]

I mean think on it. Clearly management and the coaching staff has decided that playing less minutes in a competitive environment where every game and heck, every single shift counts is more important than playing more minutes in a season to run out the string is much, much better for the kids. Nope. Know why? Because HF has said so. If you smell what HF is cooking.......

 

[Chimpradamus]

It’s a poor observation.

Kakko and Lafreniere were handed permanent spots in the lineup before ever even touching AHL ice. Up and down the lineup. They didn’t work for it or earn it.

Those kids are literally the 1% of NHL players.

Yup. If they weren't such high draft picks, there is no way the staff would've had such patience with their play. Kakko's first season was abysmal. He frankly wasn't NHL ready. Laffy's first season so far hasn't been as terrible, but very far from impressive.

 

[CLW]

I don't think giving the kids 18 minutes in blowout games is going to realistically "speed up their development". Involving them in a game in which 4 lines are rolling and playing with a lead seems a lot more valuable.

Sure, but let them have meaningful PP time, play with D that can actually help move the puck up the ice to help them transition etc also helps. If they play as a kid line, how are they going to "play better" if they get stuck in the D zone because Smith and Hajek (also a kid) struggle to move the puck out of the D and neutral zones eg. which the C Chytil also struggles with. I do think Kakko has better natural chemistry with Laf and Chytil than with some other players. It's just unfortunate they are all kids... but it's exactly because they are all kids that they need some more support from the D and coaching.

The urge to split the team into veteran and kid groups is understandable, but it has to be balanced or it becomes a bit absurd (like a separated sauce...) The Rangers are in an odd situation where the "veterans" aren't all that old and at the peak of their abilities, hungry for more and playing for huge contracts, rather than grizzled old vets who have seen it all and can take rookies under their wing (see Kane in Chicago eg.). The same goes for the coaching, Quinn is relatively new to the league.

 

[CLW]

It’s a poor observation.

Kakko and Lafreniere were handed permanent spots in the lineup before ever even touching AHL ice. Up and down the lineup. They didn’t work for it or earn it.

Those kids are literally the 1% of NHL players.

This is why "they have to earn it" argument is a bit absurd. The FO chose to put them into the lineup, now live with that decision and support them best you can because the ARE the future of the team. Second guessing that decision now is a bit late, and risky.

 

[True Blue]

This is why "they have to earn it" argument is a bit absurd. The FO chose to put them into the lineup, now live with that decision and support them best you can because the ARE the future of the team. Second guessing that decision now is a bit late, and risky.

One can be the future of the team and still need to earn that spot. Simply handing out ice time and line spots to kids is not a good idea. Just because the were drafted and are playing, hardly exempts them from earning their play. Not sure why you see that as being mutually exclusive.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

One can be the future of the team and still need to earn that spot. Simply handing out ice time and line spots to kids is not a good idea. Just because the were drafted and are playing, hardly exempts them from earning their play. Not sure why you see that as being mutually exclusive.

I would also add that I'm not sure who you are sitting even if they wanted to just hand the kids ice time?

 

[True Blue]

I would also add that I'm not sure who you are sitting even if they wanted to just hand the kids ice time?

Panarin, Mika....the usual

 

[Chytilmania]

Was listening to Quinn on DCR this morning and he said this Rangers roster is younger than his BU rosters. And at one point 3 of our 4 Centers being iced were younger than what college teams were icing.

 

[aufheben]

This is why "they have to earn it" argument is a bit absurd. The FO chose to put them into the lineup, now live with that decision and support them best you can because the ARE the future of the team. Second guessing that decision now is a bit late, and risky.

Weren’t you just criticizing people for “reducing to extremes”? It’s not AHL-1st-line-or-NHL-1st-line.

No, they don’t have to earn roster spots, but, yes, they do have to earn the top roster spots. What is “absurd” about that? To me it sounds like the cushiest f***ing situation possible.

Some posters here think that these kids are such delicate f***ing daffodils that playing on the FL3/PP2 is going to ruin their entire NHL careers...so the solution is to just chuck them in the deep end? Makes absolutely no sense to me*. None.

*Nor does the assumption that consistently giving them hard matchups and heavy TOI is only going to boost their confidence** and not hurt it.

**Nor does the assumption that there is even anything wrong with their confidence to begin with. It seems to me like they’re having fun together on that line.

I don’t know, man, the Rangers have found themselves in the fairly-unique position of having some great players while also having recent lottery picks. I can understand why they’d want to take advantage of that, i.e., why rush them if you don’t have to?

 

[Off Sides]

Chicken/Egg they need to earn their time, yet they are never given meaningful time.

And even when they do get that time, Kakko moves up, what exactly did he do wrong not to stay there?

If one wants to say they are not very good defensively, I can understand that, yet again when the team can give up some offense the other way, why not? How else are they going to improve, by watching?

Not experienced enough, will not give them the experience.

They are making a roster here where none of the youth plays special teams, none of them play top 6 minutes even, like where does that lead? They make the playoffs and then what? Roll the top 2 lines to score, and a hodgepodge 3rd line of a couple 27 year olds with them, which they hope keeps the puck out of their own net? That is going to teach them or give them playoff experience?

 

[aufheben]

That’s such nonsense that they haven’t been given opportunities.

There’s no goddamn chickens involved.

Edit: oh, hey, Kravtsov bumped up to Panarin’s line (like last game).

 

[Guyute]

I don’t mind making Laf, Kakko, and Gauthier earn their minutes. However, the love affair with Howden is absurd to the nth degree and his incessant line shuffling is infuriating. He also makes some baffling decisions regarding personnel in overtime.

He also never has to top dogs playing their A game when it’s a really important game. The no-shows in the play-in series against Carolina last season and the beginning of this season were inexcusable.

 

[aufheben]

I don’t mind making Laf, Kakko, and Gauthier earn their minutes. However, the love affair with Howden is absurd to the nth degree and his incessant line shuffling is infuriating. He also makes some baffling decisions regarding personnel in overtime.

He also never has to top dogs playing their A game when it’s a really important game. The no-shows in the play-in series against Carolina last season and the beginning of this season were inexcusable.

Love affair? Quinn practically uses Howden solely as a PK specialist. And even then it’s only on the 2nd PK unit.

If you guys think Kakko and Laf aren’t getting opportunities, then what the hell is Howden* getting?

*And no—I know someone is going to respond with this—I’m not suggesting they give Howden a bigger role.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Love affair? Quinn practically uses Howden solely as a PK specialist. And even then it’s only on the 2nd PK unit.

If you guys think Kakko and Laf aren’t getting opportunities, then what the hell is Howden* getting?

*And no—I know someone is going to respond with this—I’m not suggesting they give Howden a bigger role.

Vince? Is that you

 

[aufheben]

Vince? Is that you

It’s not even about Quinn it’s about the inaccuracy lol. Howden plays minimal 5v5 TOI nightly with our shittiest players, 2:00 on the PK, and precisely 0:00 on the PP.

Howden’s job f***ing blows.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Love affair? Quinn practically uses Howden solely as a PK specialist. And even then it’s only on the 2nd PK unit.

If you guys think Kakko and Laf aren’t getting opportunities, then what the hell is Howden* getting?

*And no—I know someone is going to respond with this—I’m not suggesting they give Howden a bigger role.

Howden should be getting 20 minutes. In Hartford.

 

[aufheben]

Howden should be getting 20 minutes. In Hartford.

K

 

[Guyute]

I’m sorry but Gauthier has more game in his pinky than Howden. If Howden is playing so little on the PK, why not simply play Gauthier?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I’m sorry but Gauthier has more game in his pinky than Howden. If Howden is playing so little on the PK, why not simply play Gauthier?

I wouldn't call 2:48 so little. But in either case one or both of them have to be traded if some teams want them.

 

[ArPanet]

If you watched last night's game on NBCSN, you heard Brian Boucher pretty much address our board directly.

I'll paraphrase:
"I know Rangers fans want to see these kids get more ice and maybe get spread throughout the lineup, but I like what Quinn's done here. With the kid line, he can shelter the young players and let them gain confidence against lesser competition, and then earn their way up the lineup."

Take that for whatever it is worth.

kid line got scored on while he was saying that

 

[ArPanet]

Anyone dig up the audio on this one yet?

Rangers didn’t allow a 1st period goal in any game Knoblauch was temporary coach. Quinn first game back, too. Have they ever gone 6 straight games w/o giving up a first period goal since Quinn has been the hc?