Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV

[True Blue]

In this instance, it does imho.

So let's just get this straight. PP is poor. It's all on Quinn. PK is great. It's all on Martin. Hmm....sounds to me like we are making efforts to cherry pick things to hang on him while going out of the way to avoid giving him any credit. If that is not an agenda and a narrative, then what is?

 

[True Blue]

Shesterkin playing like a Vezina does not mean the defense was good. We were still giving up a lot of shot and opportunities.

The turn around coincides with Shesterkin being called up and Panarin and Zibs catching fire.

Ummm....the team played so much better defensively. Yes, Shestirkin playing well helped (on what team would it not??), but there was just much better overall defensive play from the team. Again, seems to me like we are just going out of the way in efforts to avoid giving Quinn any credit whatsoever. Listen , if that is your shtick then fine. But to the outside, it appears quite a bit disingenuous.

If a team can't execute consistently, maybe... just maybe they are being poorly coached. If strutcure/system was properly implemented, there would be a lot more consistency.

Of maybe it takes young players time to learn how to play defense in the NHL?

 

[True Blue]

Hajek/Bitetto/Smith are better defensively thus far than Staal and DeAngelo.

That is another point. I was as much of a DeAngelo convert as any one, but his struggles on defense were impossible to ignore. So subtracting a on-his-last-legs Staal and a defensively challenged DeAngelo, would also have an effect.

 

[SA16]

What? Bitetto is awful defensively. He brings nothing to the table.

 

[duhmetreE]

So let's just get this straight. PP is poor. It's all on Quinn. PK is great. It's all on Martin. Hmm....sounds to me like we are making efforts to cherry pick things to hang on him while going out of the way to avoid giving him any credit. If that is not an agenda and a narrative, then what is?

no you got that crooked.

PP is poor because of Oliver. Obvious flaws are obvious. Great grandmaster Quinn should realize this and suggest change.. but obvious isn't his strong suit

 

[duhmetreE]

I do think there are some things in the system that are slightly different. The sticks in lanes is the big one. That's too much different to be simply an improvement in execution. Plus, sticks in lanes is like the only thing Staal is still good at.

But I just go back to the same thing: there's an enormous difference in the quality of the minutes being put in by guys, both because they're better and the personnel is better. Lindgren and Fox are both better. Miller is already better than Skjei was for us last year. Hajek/Bitetto/Smith are better defensively thus far than Staal and DeAngelo.

I see team defense play being better. They are working like a unit, as there's a structure to follow.

These are the same guys that people said sucked, now they are better defensively?

 

[True Blue]

no you got that crooked.

PP is poor because of Oliver. Obvious flaws are obvious. Great grandmaster Quinn should realize this and suggest change.. but obvious isn't his strong suit

I see. Quinn does not recognize the issue with his assistant coach doing a poor job on the PP but he does realize the greatness with his assistant coach on the PK? Do I have this right?

 

[duhmetreE]

I see. Quinn does not recognize the issue with his assistant coach doing a poor job on the PP but he does realize the greatness with his assistant coach on the PK? Do I have this right?

you're getting warmer.

“We’d just been inept offensively,” coach David Quinn said. “I’d always been a big believer in putting your best players together to form a line, but the way it evolved last year and the balance we had with two lines made us a unique team offensively. This year, it just hasn’t happened.

“I probably stayed with it too long, Maybe I should have put [Panarin and Zibanejad] together sooner. I did like the look of the balance of our lines today. And listen, if you don’t change things, things stay the same.”

“We’ve just come so far this season from a defensive standpoint and a structural standpoint,” Quinn said. “Our first two years here was a fire drill so many times in our own end. There’s just a much more structured, calm look to us from a defensive standpoint, and it gives you a chance.”

“I know we don’t want to refer to last year too much, but last year we relied on a ton of goals and a ton of great goaltending,” Strome said. “This year I think we’ve played pretty solid defense most of the time.

 

[True Blue]

you're getting warmer.

Yeah....assigning areas where you decide you want to blame him and assigning areas where you decide that no credit is given due to his assistants.

Again, I do not recall an assistant anywhere that got accolades ahead of his coach. Or criticisms.

 

[duhmetreE]

Yeah....assigning areas where you decide you want to blame him and assigning areas where you decide that no credit is given due to his assistants.

Again, I do not recall an assistant anywhere that got accolades ahead of his coach. Or criticisms.

Yeah... its not that complicated.

Defense without Martin = dumpster fire
Defense with Martin = not a dumpster fire; structured

It's not about discrediting Quinn. It's about pointing out the obvious, that without Martin, our defense would not be playing like this.

 

[True Blue]

Yeah... its not that complicated.

Defense without Martin = dumpster fire
Defense with Martin = not a dumpster fire; structured

It's not about discrediting Quinn. It's about pointing out the obvious, that without Martin, our defense would not be playing like this.

Considering that they were playing so much better defensively last year, am taking this statement with a grain of salt. Of course Martin has had an impact. And of course he is putting his own tweaks on Quinn's system. That does not change that a) players like Fox and Lindgren are a bit older and have taken another step in learning the system b) you have removed a Staal and a defensively challenged DeAngelo c) when healthy Trouba has largely been a very good player and has also had another year to take steps forward.

What you are doing is exactly discrediting Quinn. All credit to Martin. That is what discrediting a head coach looks like.

 

[duhmetreE]

If you want to argue that Martin's defensive system hinders our offense, that's a different story. This is Jacques Martin's bread and butter. He is a defensive coach.

 

[duhmetreE]

Considering that they were playing so much better defensively last year, am taking this statement with a grain of salt. Of course Martin has had an impact. And of course he is putting his own tweaks on Quinn's system. That does not change that a) players like Fox and Lindgren are a bit older and have taken another step in learning the system b) you have removed a Staal and a defensively challenged DeAngelo c) when healthy Trouba has largely been a very good player and has also had another year to take steps forward.

What you are doing is exactly discrediting Quinn. All credit to Martin. That is what discrediting a head coach looks like.

no.

'So much better' is how they are playing now. Great goaltending hid a lot of the flaws. We were still giving up 40+ shots a game, If my memory serves me. We're giving Shesty and Georgie VERY EASY games now.

That's the point as well. EVERYONE will look better defensively in a properly structured unit. For whatever reason, our offense and goalies have been 'failing us'. Kids will continue to improve. BUT we just had a game with Jack Johnson, Bitetto, Smith and Hajek... what would that have looked like last season?

 

[Tawnos]

I see team defense play being better. They are working like a unit, as there's a structure to follow.

These are the same guys that people said sucked, now they are better defensively?

All is relative, right? Even if they suck, they're still better than Staal and DeAngelo were in the defensive zone last year. (And keep in mind, I thought last year DeAngelo was a more valuable player because his other skills made up for his defensive deficiencies... but we aren't talking overall game here).

Besides, I've never once said that Hajek or Bitetto sucked. I've always maintained some optimism about Hajek and Bitetto was serviceable as a 3rd pairing guy for the Jets last year. These guys look fine for 3rd pairing D.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah... its not that complicated.

Defense without Martin = dumpster fire
Defense with Martin = not a dumpster fire; structured

It's not about discrediting Quinn. It's about pointing out the obvious, that without Martin, our defense would not be playing like this.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

 

[True Blue]

That's the point as well. EVERYONE will look better defensively in a properly structured unit. For whatever reason, our offense and goalies have been 'failing us'. Kids will continue to improve. BUT we just had a game with Jack Johnson, Bitetto, Smith and Hajek... what would that have looked like last season?

Bitetto and Hajek have been largely fine. And both have been defensive upgrades over Johnson (who has largely taken a seat) and DeAngelo. And Smith has been largely fine as well. What are the issues? The assitant coach takes the head coaches system and teaches and and makes his own recommendations on it. That the case in any professional sport. The assistant coach does not come in and install something completely different. Hartford plays the same system as the big club. Why? So players like Hajek and Bitetto can come in and not have to try to learn something completely different that what they have been practicing.

 

[True Blue]

If you want to argue that Martin's defensive system hinders our offense, that's a different story. This is Jacques Martin's bread and butter. He is a defensive coach.

No one is saying that. What people are saying is that Martin may make suggestions and tweaks, but the system of play is still Quinn's.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I see team defense play being better. They are working like a unit, as there's a structure to follow.

These are the same guys that people said sucked, now they are better defensively?

They're playing more conservatively, which is why we're seeing tighter defense and a much worse offense. I don't think the players have become better defenders because they're making mistakes every game that end up in the back of our net.

 

[True Blue]

They're playing more conservatively, which is why we're seeing tighter defense and a much worse offense. I don't think the players have become better defenders because they're making mistakes every game that end up in the back of our net.

Were you expecting a perfect defense from the youngest team in the league?

By the way, this is also a bunch of utter BS. When you look at their expected goals and high danger shot generation, that hardly tells a tale of playing conservatively. When you look at the PK, less shots given up, and high danger shot suppression, that tells you that a) the players are taking another step forward and b) that removing players like Staal & DeAngelo is also having an effect.

 

[Tawnos]

Were you expecting a perfect defense from the youngest team in the league?

By the way, this is also a bunch of utter BS. When you look at their expected goals and high danger shot generation, that hardly tells a tale of playing conservatively. When you look at the PK, less shots given up, and high danger shot suppression, that tells you that a) the players are taking another step forward and b) that removing players like Staal & DeAngelo is also having an effect.

Also, few teams play mistake free hockey and for the majority of goals scored in the NHL, you can find a mistake made by a defender if you want to. "Making mistakes and ending up in the back of the net" is just a description of NHL defense.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Quinn’s next pep tall may include a reminder that we can overcome adversity including Covid, Twitter and Soviets.

 

[cwede]

Eklund .....

 

[True Blue]

Eklund .....

Contrary to the wishers, I doubt the Rangers have any interest in Julien. At least they would not for another number of years.

 

[Adam Fox Time]

Eklund .....

Man, why does he have to get our hopes up?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Man, why does he have to get our hopes up?

If anything Eklund says gets your hopes up, that's kind of on you.