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Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

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Thanksgiving Quarter-Mark Grades

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Big test for Quinner tonight. A team that can actually defend which seems to be his kryptonite. Also the Blues are really good at being sneaky dirty without getting called for it. I can see this getting ugly.
 
Skjeikspeare said:
Quinn won't be here when this team is ready to make some noise. I'm not worried. Unless this team gets to the second round in 2021, he's gone.
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You really think that management's expectations for next year are for the second round of the playoffs? Really?
 
Winning games where you get out shot 40-28 is completely sustainable.

Giving up 49 shots to the Devils isn't at all concerning.


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McRanger said:
Winning games where you get out shot 40-28 is completely sustainable.

Giving up 49 shots to the Devils isn't at all concerning.


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Those numbers are totally skewed by the first period last night. We were the better team in the remaining 40 minutes.
 
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Mac n Gs said:
Those numbers are totally skewed by the first period last night. We were the better team in the remaining 40 minutes.
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We got out shot 22-6 and out shot attempted 25-11 in the first.

We out shot them 22-18 and out shot attempted 26-19 in the second and third.

That first period was so tragically bad, it was worse than the combined efforts of our two better periods. Which is impressive.

Look, beating LI is glorious no matter how it happens. And any opportunity to steal points from them to F up their chance of winning a first round match up is good in my book.

But I cant see looking at a team that's been out shot and out chanced all season including 5 of the last 6 wins (and out shot by double digits in 4 of those 5 wins) and thinking that this team is somehow on the right track.

This team is basically Panarin, Zibanejad, offense from the back end and goaltending. I could live with being mediocre or even awful if I thought the team was learning something useful like forechecking, back checking, defending the neutral zone, defending the blue line or literally anything. But our gameplan seems to be to hope a handful of players drag us over the finish line every game.
 
McRanger said:
We got out shot 22-6 and out shot attempted 25-11 in the first.

We out shot them 22-18 and out shot attempted 26-19 in the second and third.

That first period was so tragically bad, it was worse than the combined efforts of our two better periods. Which is impressive.

Look, beating LI is glorious no matter how it happens. And any opportunity to steal points from them to F up their chance of winning a first round match up is good in my book.

But I cant see looking at a team that's been out shot and out chanced all season including 5 of the last 6 wins (and out shot by double digits in 4 of those 5 wins) and thinking that this team is somehow on the right track.

This team is basically Panarin, Zibanejad, offense from the back end and goaltending. I could live with being mediocre or even awful if I thought the team was learning something useful like forechecking, back checking, defending the neutral zone, defending the blue line or literally anything. But our gameplan seems to be to hope a handful of players drag us over the finish line every game.
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I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I just wanted to point out that last night wasn't as bad as indicated. They're also trending in the right direction over the last 15 games or so, so I'm still taking this season as it comes with incremental progress. They're not there yet, but they've been visibly much better defensively lately.
 
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McRanger said:
We got out shot 22-6 and out shot attempted 25-11 in the first.

We out shot them 22-18 and out shot attempted 26-19 in the second and third.

That first period was so tragically bad, it was worse than the combined efforts of our two better periods. Which is impressive.

Look, beating LI is glorious no matter how it happens. And any opportunity to steal points from them to F up their chance of winning a first round match up is good in my book.

But I cant see looking at a team that's been out shot and out chanced all season including 5 of the last 6 wins (and out shot by double digits in 4 of those 5 wins) and thinking that this team is somehow on the right track.

This team is basically Panarin, Zibanejad, offense from the back end and goaltending. I could live with being mediocre or even awful if I thought the team was learning something useful like forechecking, back checking, defending the neutral zone, defending the blue line or literally anything. But our gameplan seems to be to hope a handful of players drag us over the finish line every game.
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Well to be fair, and as you pointed out a lot of it is Panarin, Zibanejad and the defenseman carrying the team but over the past 15 games or so they are top-10 in xGF% so there has been improvement all around.

It's not like the beginning of the season when they were getting dummied what seemed like every game.
 
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the Rangers have absolutely improved in the last month. They're much crisper with the puck and more aggressive at their blue line. I've also noticed they play with more pace but that's just an observation

They are still very lacking defensively imo.
 
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I made the point in another thread that the defensive personnel, IMO, is not bad at all. Lindgren is a rock in the role they've given him, Trouba is solid, Skjei can be solid when he's not trying to do too much, and Fox is very impressive. DeAngelo is not good defensively but they somewhat mask this with usage, and Staal is terrible. But you add it up and it's a decent unit. The problems are with the defensive system and the forwards more than anything, I think. So, a coaching issue. I really think with a more coherent defensive system (and maybe better buy-in from the forwards?) that the team should be fine defensively, particularly with the goaltending they normally get. They definitely shouldn't give up 40 shots per night.
 
nyr2k2 said:
I made the point in another thread that the defensive personnel, IMO, is not bad at all. Lindgren is a rock in the role they've given him, Trouba is solid, Skjei can be solid when he's not trying to do too much, and Fox is very impressive. DeAngelo is not good defensively but they somewhat mask this with usage, and Staal is terrible. But you add it up and it's a decent unit. The problems are with the defensive system and the forwards more than anything, I think. So, a coaching issue. I really think with a more coherent defensive system (and maybe better buy-in from the forwards?) that the team should be fine defensively, particularly with the goaltending they normally get. They definitely shouldn't give up 40 shots per night.
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There's something to this: I mean, you saw last night how they can turn it around when they buy in.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
Well to be fair, and as you pointed out a lot of it is Panarin, Zibanejad and the defenseman carrying the team but over the past 15 games or so they are top-10 in xGF% so there has been improvement all around.

It's not like the beginning of the season when they were getting dummied what seemed like every game.
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They were trending in the right direction, the last few games not so much.

xGF% ES - full season - 45.11 - 29th place
xGF% ES - last 15 games - 48.08 - 20th place
xGF% ES - last 10 games - 48.29 - 21st place
xGF% ES - last 5 games - 46.52 - 24th place

xGF% 5v5 - full season - 45.60 - 30th place
xGF% 5v5 - last 15 games - 50.27 - 6th place
xGF% 5v5 - last 10 games - 50.41 - 16th place
xGF% 5v5 - last 5 games - 47.74 - 23rd place

Though I guess being in the bottom 1/4 of the league is better than the bottom 1/15 of the league.

Truthfully I can't say the results really matter much to me. If they over achieve and make the playoffs, awesome. If they suck but they look like everyone is progressing as a player, awesome. But I dont see how "developing" players without teaching them how to play defensively sound hockey makes any sense at all.

If Torts were here and the we were getting crushed in the standings and every metric available, at least we could be sure that our young forwards were learning how to play in a defensive system and how useful things like back checking could be. This? I don't know what the f*** the point of this season is going to be. Give up 40 shots a night to develop goaltenders?
 
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McRanger said:
They were trending in the right direction, the last few games not so much.

xGF% ES - full season - 45.11 - 29th place
xGF% ES - last 15 games - 48.08 - 20th place
xGF% ES - last 10 games - 48.29 - 21st place
xGF% ES - last 5 games - 46.52 - 24th place

xGF% 5v5 - full season - 45.60 - 30th place
xGF% 5v5 - last 15 games - 50.27 - 6th place
xGF% 5v5 - last 10 games - 50.41 - 16th place
xGF% 5v5 - last 5 games - 47.74 - 23rd place

Though I guess being in the bottom 1/4 of the league is better than the bottom 1/15 of the league.

Truthfully I can't say the results really matter much to me. If they over achieve and make the playoffs, awesome. If they suck but they look like everyone is progressing as a player, awesome. But I dont see how "developing" players without teaching them how to play defensively sound hockey makes any sense at all.

If Torts were here and the we were getting crushed in the standings and every metric available, at least we could be sure that our young forwards were learning how to play in a defensive system and how useful things like back checking could be. This? I don't know what the **** the point of this season is going to be. Give up 40 shots a night to develop goaltenders?
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Also, watching excruciatingly painful hockey, and ensuring they'd be broken down shells of their former selves by the age of ~28.
 
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Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
Also, watching excruciatingly painful hockey, and ensuring they'd be broken down shells of their former selves by the age of ~28.
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Aside from broken bones from shot blocking, Torts system isn’t harder on a player than any other system that actually involves physical hockey. Not having players skate hard or hit anyone until they’re in their late 20s does not sound like a winning strategy.

And aside from Panarin, and the individual efforts of a few other more talented players than Torts had, this is often excruciatingly painful hockey. At least defensively.
 
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Raspewtin said:
the Rangers have absolutely improved in the last month. They're much crisper with the puck and more aggressive at their blue line. I've also noticed they play with more pace but that's just an observation

They are still very lacking defensively imo.
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progress and improvement thru the year is the most important measurement this year. The overall numbers were always going to be bad cause the team is bad. But if the team is better in April than they were in oct especially the young blue line that’s a huge win
 
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