Rumor: David Jiricek available

[SteelCityCannon]

When the relationship between a top prospect and the team breaks down, the rush is usually that prolonging the trade never helps anybody. The team rarely ends up getting more than whatever the market is, and the player doesn't get to move on.

Look at the Askarov trade as an example. The return was fine, but if someone posted it on HFBoards they would have been told "Nashville doesn't have to move Askarov if they don't get a top prospect, they will wait!", yet the real life return was the best they could do after shopping him for so long and doing what people suggest, waiting. There comes a point when the market is what it is, and it's going to get worse, not better.

That example would be relevant if there was 1 defensemen on every team. Goalies are a different animal. What else were they gonna do with Askarov when they have Saros signed long term? Jiricek will have plenty of room when he's ready.

 

[CanadienShark]

21 draft a lot of kids didn’t play. Plus goalies go when teams want them. Development timeline is 4-5 years before they are backups. A lot of GMs prefer to use firsts on skaters.

He was rated in round 1 and that’s where he went. Most scouting services had him ahead of Cossa who Detroit took earlier. Since like 2010, the first round goalies have been, wallstedt, Cossa, Askarov, Knight, Oettinger, Samsonov, Vasi, Subban, Campbell, Visentine. Fewer and fewer getting picked high.

Vasi and Oettinger , you’d take again in round 1. The rest of the pre 2020’s no. With incomplete for the most recent picks. Kind of why teams aren’t using firsts on goalies.

Jury is out on Askarov, Wallstedt, and Cossa still. All 3 are well deserving of their draft position thus far. Knight too.

The whole idea of "don't draft a goalie in the 1st round" hasn't changed much in decades. Sometimes they're worth it, sometimes not. I think it's better to compare them to players drafted around their range, even despite the positional difference. Hitting on 2/6 1st round pick goalies in the mid-late 1st round isn't really out of line with any other position.

 

[Dumais]

How likely this happens is probably more dependent on the coach and system, Jiricek's development path, and whether his potential will benefit the team. I don't know how much complaining a RFA can do, or how much he can influence (cause drama) for the team, when he's never even be important to the teams on-ice success?

I think this is probably nothing but click bait, but since Waddell and Evason wasn't here when they picked him, they could be looking for a swap of players.

 

[CanadienShark]

That example would be relevant if there was 1 defensemen on every team. Goalies are a different animal. What else were they gonna do with Askarov when they have Saros signed long term? Jiricek will have plenty of room when he's ready.

There are objectively at least 2 goalies on the roster and 2 dressed each night. I don't think saying "1 spot" helps your case. I realize you're talking about being a starter, but that's a process that I don't think Askarov expected to happen immediately, regardless of the team.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Has there been a Center Prospect on offer for Jiricek yet? My guess is Waddel is trying to fill that hole.

Don’t suggest Matt Savoie.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

There are objectively at least 2 goalies on the roster and 2 dressed each night. I don't think saying "1 spot" helps your case. I realize you're talking about being a starter, but that's a process that I don't think Askarov expected to happen immediately, regardless of the team.

Sure, but that's a huge factor that went into Askarovs case. He was blocked now and for the foreseeable future. If we keep Jiricek he'll be back up before the end of the year likely. Completely different situation. Jiricek's path is clear.

How likely this happens is probably more dependent on the coach and system, Jiricek's development path, and whether his potential will benefit the team. I don't know how much complaining a RFA can do, or how much he can influence (cause drama) for the team, when he's never even be important to the teams on-ice success?

I think this is probably nothing but click bait, but since Waddell and Evason wasn't here when they picked him, they could be looking for a swap of players.

Evason has been very complimentary of Jiricek. I'm paraphrasing, but he said with the puck on his stick he's fantastic. He just needs to get better when it's not. Now, of course he's not gonna come out and says he stinks, but it was nice to hear. Dude just turned 21. He's far from finished development wise. Anybody else old enough on these boards to remember when 27 was the consensus age a defensemen comes into his own?

 

[Fatass]

Don’t suggest Matt Savoie.

Juricek has value. Not too sure Savois still does.

 

[CanadienShark]

Sure, but that's a huge factor that went into Askarovs case. He was blocked now and for the foreseeable future. If we keep Jiricek he'll be back up before the end of the year likely. Completely different situation. Jiricek's path is clear.

Evason has been very complimentary of Jiricek. I'm paraphrasing, but he said with the puck on his stick he's fantastic. He just needs to get better when it's not. Now, of course he's not gonna come out and says he stinks, but it was nice to hear. Dude just turned 21. He's far from finished development wise. Anybody else old enough on these boards to remember when 27 was the consensus age a defensemen comes into his own?

For sure, the positional difference matters. Being a backup vs starter goalie is much more significant than being a top pairing vs top 4 d-man. No argument there. I'm very high on Jiricek myself. I'm hoping one of my teams can snag him. If not, well I like Columbus and their fans too!

 

[Digitalbooya]

Once again, why is everyone putting so much faith in these dork national beat writers? They're horoscope people. Just leave it opened ended enough to sound right no matter what happens. How do people buy that.

Russo has reported this with saying he has talked to a source close to the negotiation going on.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Perhaps I should rephrase the original question: if Minnesota were to say that any deal is centered with Ohgren or Heidt, which would Columbus prefer and what would the additions need to be in order to be in an okay state mentally for CBJ fans?

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Perhaps I should rephrase the original question: if Minnesota were to say that any deal is centered with Ohgren or Heidt, which would Columbus prefer and what would the additions need to be in order to be in an okay state mentally for CBJ fans?

Honestly, all we've heard this whole time is how many Minnesota pieces are off the table. I completely get why, but I think that really says there's no trade to be had between those squads. I don't think Columbus is going to be offering the discount that many think they will be. They're under no pressure to trade him.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Honestly, all we've heard this whole time is how many Minnesota pieces are off the table. I completely get why, but I think that really says there's no trade to be had between those squads. I don't think Columbus is going to be offering the discount that many think they will be. They're under no pressure to trade him.

Thanks for not answering (again).

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

That example would be relevant if there was 1 defensemen on every team. Goalies are a different animal. What else were they gonna do with Askarov when they have Saros signed long term? Jiricek will have plenty of room when he's ready.

The example wasn't contingent on the player being a goalie.

It's usually how it works when a prospect is disgruntled. If I brought up Cutter Gauthier being unable to attract a top 10 pick at the draft, and later being traded for a defenseman who was verging on being a reclamation project because of his injury history, you would point to his status as a College prospect. Rutger McGroarty is another recent one. People will point to his poor start, but at the time was dealt he was a tier above the player the Jets received, but the Jets were unable to create a market for him.

People often judge trades from a very unrealistic standard like the NHL is a video game. The reality is, GMs are rarely in a position to wait out the market for a significant time, and when they do offers rarely get better. I just gave you two very recent examples of similar top prospects who got dealt for soft packages.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Thanks for not answering (again).

Bruh you guys have given us your untouchables over and over again. Do you want us to keep beating our heads against walls or do you just want to accept in our meaningless hockey boards that were not going to come to an agreement here? You won't give up Rossi or your top 3 prospects. Don't blame ya.

You're just trying to bait me into saying ok Rossi then so you can say lolno. Why?

The example wasn't contingent on the player being a goalie.

It's usually how it works when a prospect is disgruntled. If I brought up Cutter Gauthier being unable to attract a top 10 pick at the draft, and later being traded for a defenseman who was verging on being a reclamation project because of his injury history, you would point to his status as a College prospect. Rutger McGroarty is another recent one. People will point to his poor start, but at the time was dealt he was a tier above the player the Jets received, but the Jets were unable to create a market for him.

People often judge trades from a very unrealistic standard like the NHL is a video game. The reality is, GMs are rarely in a position to wait out the market for a significant time, and when they do offers rarely get better. I just gave you two very recent examples of similar top prospects who got dealt for soft packages.

Uhhh...what? The Jets got a damn good prospect for Rutger...

Even when the Drysdale trade happened it wasn't panned. He was NOWHERE near a reclamation project.

You're distorting reality to prove a point here. Against an argument I'm really not even making .

 

[AKL]

You're just trying to bait me into saying ok Rossi then so you can say lolno. Why?

I think he's not doing that because it's already well established that Rossi isn't part of it. That part, at least, is pretty much in stone.

I think he's actually trying to discuss what could end up being a realistic deal, in good faith, and some people here seem to be averse to that.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Bruh you guys have given us your untouchables over and over again. Do you want us to keep beating our heads against walls or do you just want to accept in our meaningless hockey boards that were not going to come to an agreement here? You won't give up Rossi or your top 3 prospects. Don't blame ya.

You're just trying to bait me into saying ok Rossi then so you can say lolno. Why?

My guy, I’m trying to figure out what the value difference is between Ohgren/Heidt and Jiricek to make a “competitive” offer. The value difference cannot be Rossi because Rossi alone has more value than Jiricek.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

The Jets were forced to trade McGroarty - he demanded a trade. He was the 14th overall pick in 22. He got traded for the 14th overall pick in 23 - Yaeger.

Is what McGroarty did by forcing a trade worse than what Jiricek has done in terms of not being a team player? - Reportedly expects to be in an NHL lineup. Personally I don't think it's even close.

Jircek was the 6th overall pick in 22. He's been a very productive AHL player (~70 points in ~100 AHL games).

Why should the CBJ be settling for prospects who don't have near the pedigree as Jiricek? The Jets didn't and their hand was forced.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Stramel + Hunt + 1st

 

[Turin]

The Jets were forced to trade McGroarty - he demanded a trade. He was the 14th overall pick in 22. He got traded for the 14th overall pick in 23 - Yaeger.

Is what McGroarty did by forcing a trade worse than what Jiricek has done? - Reportedly expects to be in an NHL lineup. Personally I don't think it's even close.

Jircek was the 6th overall pick in 22. He's been a very productive AHL player (~70 points in ~100 AHL games).

Why should the CBJ be settling for prospects who don't have near the pedigree as Jiricek? The Jets didn't and their hand was forced.

McGroarty hadn’t turned pro yet while teams could think that Columbus has mishandled and stunted the development of Jiricek for two years now.

 

[AKL]

Why should the CBJ be settling for prospects who don't have near the pedigree as Jiricek? The Jets didn't and their hand was forced.

Well, if they do decide they are going to trade him, they can only get what the market bears.

There are far less players to begin with, much less available, with a pedigree near Jiricek, because teams don't trade those guys unless they feel pressure to, or don't like them anymore.

It sounds like all the market will bear is a package around a prospect+.

Do they have to trade him for it? No.

But if they do decide they are going to trade him...

 

[ColumbusTrill]

McGroarty hadn’t turned pro yet while teams could think that Columbus has mishandled and stunted the development of Jiricek for two years now.

People are acting like his career is permanently damaged when he just turned 21 yesterday. Was it ideal how last year was handled? Obviously not. I don't see how you can say this year mishandled when the season is what, a quarter of the way done?

Well, if they do decide they are going to trade him, they can only get what the market bears.

There are far less players to begin with, much less available, with a pedigree near Jiricek, because teams don't trade those guys unless they feel pressure to, or don't like them anymore.

It sounds like all the market will bear is a package around a prospect+.

Do they have to trade him for it? No.

But if they do decide they are going to trade him...

Which is why I don't think there is any rush to trade him. Why sell low? He's going to put up a PPG in the AHL this year and regain his value

 

[AKL]

Which is why I don't think there is any rush to trade him. Why sell low? He's going to put up a PPG in the AHL this year and regain his value

He may, he may not.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much scoring in the AHL is going to increase his value when the concerns about him are what he'll be capable of being in the NHL given his skating and defensive ability (or lack thereof).

 

[Viqsi]

My guy, I’m trying to figure out what the value difference is between Ohgren/Heidt and Jiricek to make a “competitive” offer. The value difference cannot be Rossi because Rossi alone has more value than Jiricek.

The goal is still a 1-for-1, so the value difference is "somebody else". There's really not much in the way of further productive discussion.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

He may, he may not.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much scoring in the AHL is going to increase his value when the concerns about him are what he'll be capable of being in the NHL given his skating and defensive ability (or lack thereof).

Well it's not like it's new information that those are the areas he needs work on - everyone knew that when he was drafted and he still was a blue chip prospect

 

[Digitalbooya]

The goal is still a 1-for-1, so the value difference is "somebody else". There's really not much in the way of further productive discussion.

Okay, let’s assume you reject the trade and it doesn’t happen. What’s the value difference between Ohgren/Heidt and Jiricek?