David Clarkson

[JacketsDavid]

What will really be the icing on the cake is if CBJ somehow aren't able to LTIR Clarkson as they would have been able to do with Horton.

I still can't figure out why some many people are assuming he's a LTIR candidate.

He had a rough year last year, but besides a lot of folks on this board and Jarmo mentioning how LTIR would help I have no idea why anyone thinks his back is so bad that he can't play.

He's not going to just walk away if he can play. That's not what hockey players (or athletes in general) do. Now if his back is a mess so he can't play then discuss LTIR. But if the CBJ thought that was the case wouldn't there be an incentive to get him to doctor now, get the doctor signed off that he will miss significant time so the CBJ could approach free agency differently?

I believe LTIR has to be approved before a season starts, so the incentive would be to get him started down that route now, rather than waiting. Again maybe all the speculation is correct and he's done, but I really doubt it. Sounds like wishful thinking by the fans (and maybe our GM).

 

[Viqsi]

Basically yes, except AFAIK Clarkson is insured, where as Horton wasnt.

I'd be surprised if he is. Insurance only covers a percentage of salary, not bonuses. It's not exactly going to help much.

 

[Old Guy]

Clarkson - 2016-17

Given the recent buyouts, I was just playing with lines and pairings. Clarkson gave me pause (not trying to be funny).


Given the recent buyouts, my lines would go (L to R)
Saad - Dubinsky - Atkinson
Hartnell - Jenner - Bjorkstrand
Foligno - Wennberg - Anderson
Calvert - Karlsson - Clarkson
extras - Campbell - Milano (total F's 14)


Johnson - Jones
Murray - Werenski
Heatherington - Savard
extra - Prout (total D 7)

Bobrovsky - McElhinney


However, assume for a moment that Clarkson goes on LTIR. That means the CBJ are only out the cash for his insurance. They don't pay his salary and don't have a cap hit.

My lines have 5 rookies, and that seems like too many. Maybe Goloubef replaces Heatherington. That would be 4, with 3 still on the front lines. But if Clarkson goes LTIR, who draws in on a spot?? If they still go with 14, my guess might be Lucas Sedlak. But maybe they go 13 - 8 and Heatherington draws in with Golouebef.

Is there an obvious move I'm missing? Has there been a David Clarkson update recently? How many rookies are too many rookies?

 

[major major]

We could see 5 rookies, but that won't include Heatherington or Milano. Just based on what I saw in the Calder Cup playoffs, they are still at least a year away.

Sedlak makes more sense, and he was mentioned by Jarmo as one of the possible rookies (alongside the obvious 3). He isn't waiver eligible starting this camp, so that substantially raises his chances of being kept as a fourth line fill-in.

I could even see us potentially having 6 rookies - The obvious 3 + Sedlak + Kukan/Harrington + Forsberg/Korpisalo. They're all older prospects, so I'm not particularly unnerved by the thought, they would just have to be better than Prout, Golo, Campbell, Clarkson, McElhinney and company. Torts will insist on having the best players on his team.

 

[Cowumbus]

Saad Wennberg Bjorkstrand
Jenner Dubinsky Atkinson
Hartnell Karlsson Foligno
Calvert Campbell Clarkson/Anderson

Is what I think it'll be, not my favorite but it'll do

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Only way Clarkson sees the ice over one of the several rookies/young guys (who deserve a spot) is if there is an injury - assuming Clarkson isn't injured himself.

 

[Old Guy]

Saad Wennberg Bjorkstrand
Jenner Dubinsky Atkinson
Hartnell Karlsson Foligno
Calvert Campbell Clarkson/Anderson

Is what I think it'll be, not my favorite but it'll do

Wennberg has a FO success ratio of about 42%. I'm hoping they wouldn't put him there without improvement. Dubininsky's experience and tenacity, I would put him there for now.

You have Jenner on the left wing, and I think they are going to try him at center. Okay.

If you are correct, that 3rd line might compete for most expensive 3rd line in the history of the NHL. Certainly would be more expensive than you have the 1st line configured.

 

[NotWendell]

Saad Wennberg Atkinson
Jenner Dubinsky Foligno
Hartnell Karlsson Bjorkstrand
Calvert Sedlak Anderson
Clarkson
Campbell

Johnson Savard
Murray Jones
Werenski Kukan
Prout

Bobrovsky
Korpisalo

Yeah, this is a young team! Yes, I have SIX Lake Erie Monsters on the squad. I'd be happier with a true top six center, a sniper on the right wing and a scoring defenseman.

 

[JacketsDavid]

When we traded for Clarkson the FO said "we can't afford to have $5.4M per year sitting I the stands". Unless the CBJ have won the lottery I assume it's still correct.

They will try to get Clarkson on the 3rd line just give him a chance. He'll likely end up on the 4th line most nights (hopefully Cam, Oliver and Foligno are top 3 RW).

 

[NotWendell]

When we traded for Clarkson the FO said "we can't afford to have $5.4M per year sitting I the stands". Unless the CBJ have won the lottery I assume it's still correct.

They will try to get Clarkson on the 3rd line just give him a chance. He'll likely end up on the 4th line most nights (hopefully Cam, Oliver and Foligno are top 3 RW).

So, skate him and his bad back like crazy and force him into retirement? Hmmmm.

 

[JacketsDavid]

So, skate him and his bad back like crazy and force him into retirement? Hmmmm.

Appears to be the same strategy with Bob and his bad groin - get him healthy and play him every game until one tears/pulls again...

 

[blahblah]

Why does this need a thread and why is it labeled Clarkson?

It's just another line combo thread months before camp. Oh and this sick fantasy of him on LTIR, if you want to get technical you still have the cap hit.

 

[major major]

If you are correct, that 3rd line might compete for most expensive 3rd line in the history of the NHL. Certainly would be more expensive than you have the 1st line configured.

Not even close. You'd need all three making big money to get to that point. I'm not even sure if that's more money than what Dallas' fourth liners were making a couple years back - Erik Cole, Shawn Horcoff, Vern Fiddler.

More to the point - it doesn't matter how much the players on a line make. That's a foolish way to decide where people play. We also need to stop acting like the third line is supposed to be some affordable two-way line. It's really probably going to be nearly indistinguishable from the 2nd line, as it is for many teams around the league.

When we traded for Clarkson the FO said "we can't afford to have $5.4M per year sitting I the stands". Unless the CBJ have won the lottery I assume it's still correct.

They will try to get Clarkson on the 3rd line just give him a chance. He'll likely end up on the 4th line most nights (hopefully Cam, Oliver and Foligno are top 3 RW).

Remember this is Torts making the lines. I'm confident he'll put out the best players. He doesn't care how much money someone is making. It really is completely irrelevant, so I'm glad he thinks that way.

Oh and this sick fantasy of him on LTIR, if you want to get technical you still have the cap hit.

If you want to have the hit, I suppose. Or you can activate the LTIR cap exemption. It depends how much ownership wants to spend.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Why does this need a thread and why is it labeled Clarkson?

It's just another line combo thread months before camp. Oh and this sick fantasy of him on LTIR, if you want to get technical you still have the cap hit.

Make him an offer he can't refuse?

Clarkson: I'm finally better Jarmo, I've been skating and I feel ready for camp
Torts: Ok then.. take the ice and keep skating till I tell you to stop.. by the way that guy swinging the bat is named Vinny.. don't get to close
Clarkson: What is this LTIR option?

 

[NotWendell]

Make him an offer he can't refuse?

Clarkson: I'm finally better Jarmo, I've been skating and I feel ready for camp
Torts: Ok then.. take the ice and keep skating till I tell you to stop.. by the way that guy swinging the bat is named Vinny.. don't get to close
Clarkson: What is this LTIR option?

You think Prospal would do that for us?

 

[Viqsi]

You think Prospal would do that for us?

I'd be more wondering if he'd celebrate that particular goal the same way he does any goals in practice.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Remember this is Torts making the lines. I'm confident he'll put out the best players. He doesn't care how much money someone is making. It really is completely irrelevant, so I'm glad he thinks that way.

So what was happening before was Jarmo or JD making the lines? Were we back in the IDWT days where he would get on his weekly radio show and tell everyone the current lines? Listen I get Torts is his own man. But there is a fundamental problem if you think Jarmo and JD were making the lines prior to Torts.

Bottom line is when Clarkson is healthy he is an effective player in front of the net, he's not worth half of his contract obviously. I know you want to think that every player under 25 on our roster has the potential to be a 25 goal scorer but most of them won't be.

But go ahead and explain why 2 years ago we couldn't afford to have $5.4M sitting in the stands but now you think we can? If healthy he's going to play, none of us want to admit it but we're stuck with him.

 

[major major]

So what was happening before was Jarmo or JD making the lines? Were we back in the IDWT days where he would get on his weekly radio show and tell everyone the current lines? Listen I get Torts is his own man. But there is a fundamental problem if you think Jarmo and JD were making the lines prior to Torts.

I do think some coaches are more particular than others about having their guys in the lineup. Richie wasn't a terrible coach, but he was terrible about lineup decisions and adjusting things when they were broken. And I don't think Torts is that great, but he'll sit a guy if he doesn't like his play, doesn't matter how much he's making.

Bottom line is when Clarkson is healthy he is an effective player in front of the net, he's not worth half of his contract obviously. I know you want to think that every player under 25 on our roster has the potential to be a 25 goal scorer but most of them won't be.

Ease off on the strawmen. I don't think that at all. I do think we have several forwards on Lake Erie who can do Clarkson's job better than he can.

But go ahead and explain why 2 years ago we couldn't afford to have $5.4M sitting in the stands but now you think we can? If healthy he's going to play, none of us want to admit it but we're stuck with him.

You're not helping yourself afford anything by putting inferior players in the lineup. It doesn't matter after the ink is signed. It's sunk cost. SUNK COST!
The "can't afford to have $5.4m sitting in the stands" comment makes sense if you can swap a guy in the stands for a somewhat useful player, which is what Jarmo was hoping for. Unfortunately, Clarkson is not just on a bad contract, he's not even an NHL quality player anymore.

 

[JacketsDavid]

You're not helping yourself afford anything by putting inferior players in the lineup. It doesn't matter after the ink is signed. It's sunk cost. SUNK COST!
The "can't afford to have $5.4m sitting in the stands" comment makes sense if you can swap a guy in the stands for a somewhat useful player, which is what Jarmo was hoping for. Unfortunately, Clarkson is not just on a bad contract, he's not even an NHL quality player anymore.

I know that but our team management said that when we traded Horton for Clarkson. I'm not making it up, they said it.

I fully understand sunk cost and I agree there may be more potentially good players who won't play, but some of those guys need developed, and that development long term is more important than playing 8-12 minutes a night on 3rd/4th line in NHL.

I disagree on what Clarkson is. I think if healthy he can still be a 3rd/4th line RW. No he won't be a 20 goal scorer, but he'll work in front of the net. Again I doubt if we'll see a 100% healthy Clarkson this year, but I'm going to assume he'll play 40-50 games and get 6-8 goals? Again not good production for a 3rd liner, but better than our traditional 4th liner.

I accept many folks see Clarkson like Boll, something slow and ancient. But I think every team needs that guy that will take a beating in front of net, and likely that somewhat contributed to his injury today.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

I do think some coaches are more particular than others about having their guys in the lineup. Richie wasn't a terrible coach, but he was terrible about lineup decisions and adjusting things when they were broken. And I don't think Torts is that great, but he'll sit a guy if he doesn't like his play, doesn't matter how much he's making.



Ease off on the strawmen. I don't think that at all. I do think we have several forwards on Lake Erie who can do Clarkson's job better than he can.



You're not helping yourself afford anything by putting inferior players in the lineup. It doesn't matter after the ink is signed. It's sunk cost. SUNK COST!
The "can't afford to have $5.4m sitting in the stands" comment makes sense if you can swap a guy in the stands for a somewhat useful player, which is what Jarmo was hoping for. Unfortunately, Clarkson is not just on a bad contract, he's not even an NHL quality player anymore.

Look at it this way. Sit him and his 5.4m in the stands. Let a young guy play, Team makes playoffs, team generates extra revenue and fan goodwill(more tix sold). The two together offset the 5.4m sitting in the stands. Net/Net + fan goodwill

 

[major major]

I know that but our team management said that when we traded Horton for Clarkson. I'm not making it up, they said it.

I fully understand sunk cost and I agree there may be more potentially good players who won't play, but some of those guys need developed, and that development long term is more important than playing 8-12 minutes a night on 3rd/4th line in NHL.

I disagree on what Clarkson is. I think if healthy he can still be a 3rd/4th line RW. No he won't be a 20 goal scorer, but he'll work in front of the net. Again I doubt if we'll see a 100% healthy Clarkson this year, but I'm going to assume he'll play 40-50 games and get 6-8 goals? Again not good production for a 3rd liner, but better than our traditional 4th liner.

I accept many folks see Clarkson like Boll, something slow and ancient. But I think every team needs that guy that will take a beating in front of net, and likely that somewhat contributed to his injury today.

As I explained, the quote from Jarmo we're both referring to makes sense if he thought he was getting a better player than Clarkson has turned out to be.

I'm not as optimistic as you that Clarkson can turn it around. He's only ever had one way to play to be successful, and unfortunately now he can't play his game without getting wrecked.

As for proper development time for our youngsters, Josh Anderson projects as a bottom six RW. Giving him 11 minutes a night is not hurting his development, it's his job and he's ready for it.

 

[blahblah]

If you want to have the hit, I suppose. Or you can activate the LTIR cap exemption. It depends how much ownership wants to spend.

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

I have no idea what you are babbling on about. LTIR cap relief is only relevant if you go over the cap.

 

[major major]

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

I have no idea what you are babbling on about. LTIR cap relief is only relevant if you go over the cap.

Correct, you can go over the cap if you have a player on LTIR. So if you choose to activate the LTIR cap relief, in effect the injured player doesn't count against the cap. (Technically the team gets to play with a higher cap, but it's the same thing in effect.)

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

So, skate him and his bad back like crazy and force him into retirement? Hmmmm.

Or have him skate backwards to take some miles off that odometer

 

[blahblah]

Correct, you can go over the cap if you have a player on LTIR. So if you choose to activate the LTIR cap relief, in effect the injured player doesn't count against the cap. (Technically the team gets to play with a higher cap, but it's the same thing in effect.)

It's how it works, you don't have to "activate" squat. There would be no reason not to "activate" it.

"Hey I want to go over the cap and lose that cap space for next season for no reason! I'm a genius!".