Post-Game Talk: Dallas 3 - Winnipeg 1

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stanley can play big, let's not lie. He can injure people with one hit, or by falling on them. You get injured your timing is off, and you might have it in practice but game conditioning is another thing. I think that's the biggest reason why Heinola is sitting because game conditioning is something he missed all preseason. Jets don't get as much practice time with heavy schedule, but it's way too early in the season to start panicking. Or calling for Tyrel Bauer. Simon Lundmark would probably be the next callup, if he was healthy.

Yes, Stan is big and can play somewhat big. He's not very good at it though. It doesn't come naturally to him. He doesn't have that killer instinct. He is more the gentle giant type.

I'm not calling for Tyrell Bauer. You are the one who thinks we need a goon Dman. If we are going to have a goon, lets at least have a good one.

 

[Buffdog]

The Jets are not flying Flair Airlines with no leg room, a screaming crying baby on the next seat, multiple layovers and passengers packed in like sardines like the rest of us plebs. It is more like a 3 hour highway drive with you having the entire back of the SUV to yourself, even comfier than that as they can walk around etc.

True, but she doesn't have to wake up the next day and play a hockey game vs some of the best players in the world who slept in their own beds, in their own time zone - and somehow perform as if they're having the same experience

NHL games end at around 9:30 (assuming 7:00 start - closer to 10:00 if it's 7:30). Once they're off the ice, they need to shower and get dressed while the staff packs everything up. Depending on the distance to the airport, it is likely that they're not "wheels up" until 12:00am at the earliest

Depending on length of the flight and time change, they might not be at the hotel until 3:00am or 4:00am. Now do that 3 times in 4 days.

So yeah, the flight on a chartered jet was confortable. But than's not the iissue

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Except that Heinola has played only 2 games. If you count his conditioning stint with the Moose, he has played 4 games since TC. He sat for the last 2 games. He hasn't gone through most of this road trip.

Agree. Noted that same pass. Forgot it with the penalties.

I think it is largely his lack of speed that leads to his penalties and also contributes to his bad passes. He just doesn't have the quickness to deal with pressure.

Yes, about Stanley's speed and quickness. Not many fast-twitch muscles in that 6'7" frame, I'm guessing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agree about Scheifele but now with no Ehlers, man that would be tough.

Scheifele can't take FOs and can't shoot. Does that leave him any better than Namestnikov?

Even if the injury is relatively minor it seems to be preventing him from playing well. So what's the point of keeping him in the lineup?

 

[Jets 31]

Totally agree that the Jets aren't flying like most of us are but it's the length of the road trip that was goofy and that absolutely has a affect on the players . 9 of our last 10 games on the road, come home for 1 game then back on the road for 2 more? Come on, to think that wouldn't affect our play is goofy. Why do teams almost always have a better record at home than away? I can absolutely agree that our play has dropped off but if people don't think this awful schedule doesn't have something to do with it you aren't being logical you are being a little defeatist.

 

[DRW204]

I'm flying across the continent once this month, staying in Van for 16 days and then flying back across the continent. It's only a 6 hour flight but it will leave me tired, grouchy, sore back and mess with my internal clock. After two weeks when I've reset to the new time zone, I'll do the return trip to another time.

I don't know how hockey players can travel as much as they do and still perform at such a high level. There's a certain level of acclimatization but even experienced frequent flyers admit that crossing time zones leaves them at less than their best. This is partly why I get so exasperated at the way people dump on the Jets and dismiss the effects of a long road trip as "luxury travel".

how do they do it? they're pro athletes who have been doing it for years on end and really don't have to suffer through the worst parts of traveling the average person has to go through. on top of that, have access to every modality to help them recover & prep for a game, along with being paid millions of USD and not being a frail group of complainers.

 

[Jets 31]

how do they do it? they're pro athletes who have been doing it for years on end and really don't have to suffer through the worst parts of traveling the average person has to go through. on top of that, have access to every modality to help them recover & prep for a game, along with being paid millions of USD and not being a frail group of complainers.

They have to wait a long time for a smoke though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The Jets need a big mobile LHD, but how would the Jets acquire one. You wont get him thru FA in the middle of the season or even the off season, we don't have one in the pipeline so a trade seems like the only option. Roster player and pick seems like the only option but who?

If Samberg wasn't hurt, Fleury could be that guy on the 3rd pair. Not the ideal solution, but adequate - and better than Stanley. At 6'4 he is not exactly small and he is mobile.

Or worry more about effectiveness than preconceived ideas like big. Heinola could be very effective with the tools he has. Not that Heinola is = Morrissey, but try to imagine sitting Morrissey because he is not big. It is effectiveness that counts. It doesn't matter how a player achieves that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I simply do not understand the obsession this organization has with Stanley. Even when he is playing well, he’s nothing better than a bottom pair Dman. Might be justified if no one was coming up through the ranks but now he is blocking someone who has the potential to be much better in Heinola. Speed and skill are dominating in todays NHL and that makes Stanley a liability on most nights.

The bolded is the key. He rises up to a #6 on his best days, some fraction of the time. His avg is somewhat less than that. And the fact is that he is not even an ideal #7. Fleury is better there because he has mobility and can fill in even a little further up the roster for short periods.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes he is being showcased for a 5th round pick in the 2029 draft lol

Honestly, after yesterday's game he is waiver wire material. Probably clears except that some other GM will see 6'7 and take a flyer on him. Probably waived again though.

 

[bumblebeeman]

how do they do it? they're pro athletes who have been doing it for years on end and really don't have to suffer through the worst parts of traveling the average person has to go through. on top of that, have access to every modality to help them recover & prep for a game, along with being paid millions of USD and not being a frail group of complainers.

It's still clearly a disadvantage though. Sure they are rich and have access to everything, but so do their opponents, but the Jets are the ones on a long road trip. There is so much parity in the NHL now, these little things add up

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We obsess a lot around here on Stanley, how will Ehlers injury affect his next contract? Guy can’t stay healthy.

Depends on the injury and how much time he misses.

Look at Josh Norris and his contract. And yet people are still talk about trading for him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally I feel like a lot of the negativity in this thread is coming from the struggles in the last 10 games rather than the one particular game last night against the Stars.

The Jets were in a tie game in the 3rd last night with a pretty exhausted and banged up crew. It wasn't like they lost in a blowout.

Stanley is taking up most of the oxygen in this thread, and while his penalties didn't help, and his play is what it always is, when Samberg is back personally I think Fleury has passed Stanley, and once they start to give Heinola more games (I saw a post that Heinola was scratched as sort of a "load management" type thing to not overload him coming back from injury), there's a good chance that Heinola passes him as well. That would make him 5th of the LHD's.

The bigger issue IMO is the offense completely drying up. I don't know what our shooting percentage was when the Jets were winning and putting up 5 goals a game, but while it most likely had to come down, the offense now seems to be sputtering.

SH% was very high. It is now averaging out a little. Scheifele unable to shoot properly and Ehlers out add up to a lot of scoring missing.

 

[LowLefty]

I know Stanley hasn't played a ton of NHL games, on account of how he's not very good so he's been benched a lot. But he's a 5 year NHL veteran, and a 7 year pro hockey veteran. Why are they treating him as if he's about to take a big step forward?

He's older now than Chara was when he started becoming the top level D-man people know him as, and Chara was a big outlier in how late he became an elite player.

Injuries have also sidelined Stanley -
Not here to defend him (although I do a lot) but they obviously want to get him in for an extended run of games to confirm if he can be a bottom pair dman. When he's playing his best hockey, that is what he is.
But more importantly (as far as Arniel is concerned), they want his size in the lineup - as if they can get him to be a consistent 3rd pair player, they will have what they want.

When I do defend him, it for that reason only - I also think the Jets need more size out there many nights and they are leaning on Lowry to do all the dirty work. That isn't necessarily what they want from Lowry - they'd rather count on his heavy D game every night and not have to worry about him dropping the gloves and then be without what many consider the best 3rd line in the league - and this will be especially true come playoffs.

I get the anti Stan stuff - but it's pretty obvious why they want him in - and why Ville will struggle (on this team) getting a perm spot in this D lineup. They want size / grit / power (like it or not) - and they will continue to work Stan into games as they work toward that goal. Ville is pretty much the opposite of that. Brings some nice offense here and there but I'd assume Arniel has all the offense he needs already on the blueline.

Now they'll sit Stan down and tell him to stop using his stick (cross checks / hooks) even if they are weak checks - because the refs are calling him for stick infractions every time. It's BS but that's how it is. They don't expect anything close to Chara - they simply want a third pair guy that is large, can kill penalties, can lay a big intimidating hit once in a while, and can take a bit of the load off Lowry.

 

[Gm0ney]

Travel is just an excuse to explain the regression to the mean - but the regression is the majority of the explanation.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Depends on the injury and how much time he misses.

Look at Josh Norris and his contract. And yet people are still talk about trading for him.

Does it matter the type? It definitely matters the number of games, but, if the guy can’t stay healthy even if it’s different ailments that still has to affect things.

Ottawa is in a position to overpay as they are not a playoff team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I`m personally persuaded that Stanley is very much an organizational "choice", moreso than a coaching "choice", but I suspect that to understand it we have to look deeper than normal. There is firstly the unanswerable question of the team owner`s possible role in decision-making. But there is also the question of how decisions are made within the organizational structure set up by Chevy himself. It seems to be undersized and somewhat unstructured, with Chevy probably relying very heavily on advice/feedback from Zinger and Hillier, his two main lieutenants. Now it is not hard to visualize the messaging coming into Chevy`s ear from these two guys whenever decisions were to be made concerning Stanley. They both went strongly to bat in favor of the selection and draft strategy, putting their reputations on the line to resolve some strongly differing views amongst the scouts. They undoubtedly find it difficult to confront the harsh reality that things have simply not worked out as conceived at the time.

They put their reputations on the line and yet they are not suffering the loss of credibility that would be expected when their position turned out to be wrong. Forcing him into the lineup just puts their mistake on display.

 

[surixon]

Injuries have also sidelined Stanley -
Not here to defend him (although I do a lot) but they obviously want to get him in for an extended run of games to confirm if he can be a bottom pair dman. When he's playing his best hockey, that is what he is.
But more importantly (as far as Arniel is concerned), they want his size in the lineup - as if they can get him to be a consistent 3rd pair player, they will have what they want.

When I do defend him, it for that reason only - I also think the Jets need more size out there many nights and they are leaning on Lowry to do all the dirty work. That isn't necessarily what they want from Lowry - they'd rather count on his heavy D game every night and not have to worry about him dropping the gloves and then be without what many consider the best 3rd line in the league - and this will be especially true come playoffs.

I get the anti Stan stuff - but it's pretty obvious why they want him in - and why Ville will struggle (on this team) getting a perm spot in this D lineup. They want size / grit / power (like it or not) - and they will continue to work Stan into games as they work toward that goal. Ville is pretty much the opposite of that. Brings some nice offense here and there but I'd assume Arniel has all the offense he needs already on the blueline.

Now they'll sit Stan down and tell him to stop using his stick (cross checks / hooks) even if they are weak checks - because the refs are calling him for stick infractions every time. It's BS but that's how it is. They don't expect anything close to Chara - they simply want a third pair guy that is large, can kill penalties, can lay a big intimidating hit once in a while, and can take a bit of the load off Lowry.

That is exactly what they want, but how long do you give it before you need to look outside the org for that piece?

If we were rebuilding I could see them continuing this, but we want to win and he still isn't close to consistent enough 7 years into his pro career.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Does it matter the type? It definitely matters the number of games, but, if the guy can’t stay healthy even if it’s different ailments that still has to affect things.

Ottawa is in a position to overpay as they are not a playoff team.

The type affects the recovery time, that's all.

Sure Sens can afford Norris - now. But people are talking about acquiring Norris for teams that can't so easily afford him.

 

[gojetsgo]

Travel is just an excuse to explain the regression to the mean - but the regression is the majority of the explanation.

yup, 14 straight games of travel going from one coast to another and back again has nothing to do with anything...

 

[raideralex99]

Too funny someone needs to tell the Debbie Downers on here … talking heads from SN still rate Jets as #1 team after losing streak.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

The Jets are not flying Flair Airlines with no leg room, a screaming crying baby on the next seat, multiple layovers and passengers packed in like sardines like the rest of us plebs. It is more like a 3 hour highway drive with you having the entire back of the SUV to yourself, even comfier than that as they can walk around etc.

For some reason, I'm now imagining Scheif on a Flair Airlines flight with the crying baby right behind him. I laughed - no wonder he looks like shit out on the ice lately

 

[Gm0ney]

Too funny someone needs to tell the Debbie Downers on here … talking heads from SN still rate Jets as #1 team after losing streak.
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Are these the same Sportsnet Super Geniuses that didn't think the Jets were going to make the playoffs despite coming off a 110 point season last year? Maybe take it with a grain of salt.

The simple fact is that this Jets team is not as good as their 15-1 start,, and not as bad as 4-6 over their last 10.

 

[Gm0ney]

yup, 14 straight games of travel going from one coast to another and back again has nothing to do with anything...

yup, a team with middling shot metrics that was shooting 40% on the powerplay and getting .950 goaltending coming back down to earth has nothing to do with anything...

 

[gojetsgo]

yup, a team with middling shot metrics that was shooting 40% on the powerplay and getting .950 goaltending coming back down to earth has nothing to do with anything...

clearly we weren't going to maintain a 15-1 pace but we would be doing better then the recent 3-6 run were currently on