Post-Game Talk: Dallas 3 - Winnipeg 1

[Huffer]

Personally I feel like a lot of the negativity in this thread is coming from the struggles in the last 10 games rather than the one particular game last night against the Stars.

The Jets were in a tie game in the 3rd last night with a pretty exhausted and banged up crew. It wasn't like they lost in a blowout.

Stanley is taking up most of the oxygen in this thread, and while his penalties didn't help, and his play is what it always is, when Samberg is back personally I think Fleury has passed Stanley, and once they start to give Heinola more games (I saw a post that Heinola was scratched as sort of a "load management" type thing to not overload him coming back from injury), there's a good chance that Heinola passes him as well. That would make him 5th of the LHD's.

The bigger issue IMO is the offense completely drying up. I don't know what our shooting percentage was when the Jets were winning and putting up 5 goals a game, but while it most likely had to come down, the offense now seems to be sputtering.

 

[DRW204]

Personally I feel like a lot of the negativity in this thread is coming from the struggles in the last 10 games rather than the one particular game last night against the Stars.

The Jets were in a tie game in the 3rd last night with a pretty exhausted and banged up crew. It wasn't like they lost in a blowout.

Stanley is taking up most of the oxygen in this thread, and while his penalties didn't help, and his play is what it always is, when Samberg is back personally I think Fleury has passed Stanley, and once they start to give Heinola more games (I saw a post that Heinola was scratched as sort of a "load management" type thing to not overload him coming back from injury), there's a good chance that Heinola passes him as well. That would make him 5th of the LHD's.

The bigger issue IMO is the offense completely drying up. I don't know what our shooting percentage was when the Jets were winning and putting up 5 goals a game, but while it most likely had to come down, the offense now seems to be sputtering.

scheifele not being 100% + ehlers out last 1+ games doesn't help

 

[Romang67]

after the Covid Division year where i thought he was solid, i was willing to hear and be more receptive on his potential. chara was the clear outlier, perhaps a bit closer to oleksiak for example. we're nearing the end of 2024 now, and he hasn't improved or imo been close to that 2021 year in terms of consistency.

iirc it was either last yr or the year prior, on WST Murat mentioned the Jets still view him having "chara potential." i find sometimes these organizations fixate on a trait or player years after their draft despite it being eons ago. we're probably seeing that still with stanley.

I feel like the shining example would be the 2015 draft. Does anyone still feel that any player in this list has a chance to become much more than they are now?

Kyle Connor
Jack Roslovic
Jansen Harkins
Eric Foley
Michael Spacek
Mason Appleton
Sami Niku
Matteo Gennaro

Of course not. Hell, you most likely don't even consider them young anymore, because by NHL standards, they aren't. Logan Stanley is being treated like he's in his draft+4 season even though he was drafted the year after all of those guys.

It's bewildering.

 

[DRW204]

I feel like the shining example would be the 2015 draft. Does anyone still feel that any player in this list has a chance to become much more than they are now?

Kyle Connor
Jack Roslovic
Jansen Harkins
Eric Foley
Michael Spacek
Mason Appleton
Sami Niku
Matteo Gennaro

Of course not. Hell, you most likely don't even consider them young anymore, because by NHL standards, they aren't. Logan Stanley is being treated like he's in his draft+4 season even though he was drafted the year after all of those guys.

It's bewildering.

oh im with you. i would say a 1st rd pick gets usually has more luster & is granted more leeway than the later round guys though.
however, we are nearing a decade since Stanley has been a part of the Winnipeg Jets organization. protected in the expansion draft, opportunity after opportunity, huge rope in terms of making mistakes and coming back, he even requested a trade & the Jets ended up still making it work for him. this is across various coaches too. all this for a 3rd pair/7LHD , like you said bewildering.

 

[voyageur]

I didn't really mind the Jets' play in yesterday's game or on this road trip. It's been a brutal schedule, they have some banged up players, etc. but they were still competitive.

My main concern is that Arniel has made it very plain that the Jets plan to force Stanley into the top 6 because he's a big body. I don't disagree that the Jets need more size in their D, but Stanley isn't the answer.

What it says to me is that acquiring a big LHD should be near the top of Chevy's priority list. I don't think they can go into the stretch run and playoffs as a true contender with the penalty-prone and sluggish Stanley in their top 6.

Let's hope that Arniel too is tired from all the travel and he re-evaluates that decision, after watching more video, and listening to AC/DC (liked the interview with Sara). It's hard to believe that Fleury is playing ahead of him in the lineup, more minutes and responsibilities too, and that Stanley is still somehow ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[Gm0ney]

Personally I feel like a lot of the negativity in this thread is coming from the struggles in the last 10 games rather than the one particular game last night against the Stars.

The Jets were in a tie game in the 3rd last night with a pretty exhausted and banged up crew. It wasn't like they lost in a blowout.

Stanley is taking up most of the oxygen in this thread, and while his penalties didn't help, and his play is what it always is, when Samberg is back personally I think Fleury has passed Stanley, and once they start to give Heinola more games (I saw a post that Heinola was scratched as sort of a "load management" type thing to not overload him coming back from injury), there's a good chance that Heinola passes him as well. That would make him 5th of the LHD's.

The bigger issue IMO is the offense completely drying up. I don't know what our shooting percentage was when the Jets were winning and putting up 5 goals a game, but while it most likely had to come down, the offense now seems to be sputtering.

Everything is just regressing back to the mean. The Jets were never dominant in the shot metrics, which was a clue they were way outperforming their record. Now everything's come back down to earth at the same time. Jets PDO is 1.00 over their last 10 games...which suggests their 4-6 record during that stretch is closer to reality than their 14-1 record over the first 15 games when their PDO was 1.07.

Stanley's definitely the fan scapegoat for these last two games. A combination of frustration with the team losing and frustration with the organization just banging their head against the wall trying to make Stanley happen.

 

[ecolad]

I`m personally persuaded that Stanley is very much an organizational "choice", moreso than a coaching "choice", but I suspect that to understand it we have to look deeper than normal. There is firstly the unanswerable question of the team owner`s possible role in decision-making. But there is also the question of how decisions are made within the organizational structure set up by Chevy himself. It seems to be undersized and somewhat unstructured, with Chevy probably relying very heavily on advice/feedback from Zinger and Hillier, his two main lieutenants. Now it is not hard to visualize the messaging coming into Chevy`s ear from these two guys whenever decisions were to be made concerning Stanley. They both went strongly to bat in favor of the selection and draft strategy, putting their reputations on the line to resolve some strongly differing views amongst the scouts. They undoubtedly find it difficult to confront the harsh reality that things have simply not worked out as conceived at the time.

 

[Whis]

10 games in 10 different cities is nasty. The next 4 games are basically a continuation of a road trip
(4 different cities again). Injuries mounting to guys they can't replace.

Stanley stinks. The fact that they didn't give up on this guy 2-3 years ago (sunk cost fallacy) and continue to bleed value to try and make him happen is malpractice.

 

[buggs]

Apologies for piling on poor Stanley here, but I'm thinking our last two games actually showed that other teams see Stanley for what he is. The baffling question is why does the Jets organization not see those flaws.

From my perspective the last couple of games the teams approached the Jets by trying to get in behind the defense and had their greatest success with Stanley on the ice. When Barron served up the pizza it wasn't Stanley's fault, but it emphasized that his quickness is distinctly lacking. Not surprisingly for a man of that size; his agility and footspeed are not the same as a smaller, better skating defender would be. On that specific goal Stanley looked very much like he did in his draft year - slow of foot and rather immobile.

Over the past several games I've been watching and that is the persistent issue for him. If someone gets past him, he can't compensate. He's a big boy with a long reach but I think that does more to hide his inefficiencies than it does to help out. He is beer league level in some aspects of his mobility. The rest? Yup, 3rd pairing NHL defender and a guy I suppose you can slot in at points, but my feeling is that he isn't any better than Fleury or Coghlan or Miller.

Stanley definitely brings size and full credit to him for his willingness to step up, but he's not a fighter. Based on his size he'll never get the benefit of the doubt on penalties either. He should have realized this by now but it seems he hasn't.

On yesterday's game it was a frustrating loss, but I thought the Jets played well enough given the road trip, injuries and frequency of games. It was a close game.

The offense regressing to the mean was bound to happen. Scheifele is clearly hurt, Ehlers is out. That's quite a bit of offense gone there. Defense took a pick hit in losing Samberg. Insistence on slotting in Stanley isn't meeting expectations, though Heinola may be sore.

The team got a nice head start out of the season, let's hope they can re-group and get a bit healthier.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Is it crazy to suggest that Kupari move up to center 13 and 81 and give 55 a break?

He probably has the best faceoff win percentage (didn't look it up), has the best speed and 200 foot game, is a natural Center. Easy enough to fill out the 4th line.

There are two very big unknowns on the team right now. Heinola and Kupari, and I'd like to see what we have in them. ( no, I'm not Finnish ) Just imagine if we have what we need right in house.

 

[Buffdog]

The Jets were in a tie game in the 3rd last night with a pretty exhausted and banged up crew. It wasn't like they lost in a blowout.

Where I'm starting to worry a little (amd I'm generally very optomistic) is that our game falls off so much when we're tired... just like last year

If our style of play is only successful when we're fresh and well rested, then we're in for another quick playoffs. The whole grind to the cup is full of injuries and exhaustion

This team needs to find ways to win when they aren't feeling 100%

 

[voyageur]

Apologies for piling on poor Stanley here, but I'm thinking our last two games actually showed that other teams see Stanley for what he is. The baffling question is why does the Jets organization not see those flaws.

From my perspective the last couple of games the teams approached the Jets by trying to get in behind the defense and had their greatest success with Stanley on the ice. When Barron served up the pizza it wasn't Stanley's fault, but it emphasized that his quickness is distinctly lacking. Not surprisingly for a man of that size; his agility and footspeed are not the same as a smaller, better skating defender would be. On that specific goal Stanley looked very much like he did in his draft year - slow of foot and rather immobile.

Over the past several games I've been watching and that is the persistent issue for him. If someone gets past him, he can't compensate. He's a big boy with a long reach but I think that does more to hide his inefficiencies than it does to help out. He is beer league level in some aspects of his mobility. The rest? Yup, 3rd pairing NHL defender and a guy I suppose you can slot in at points, but my feeling is that he isn't any better than Fleury or Coghlan or Miller.

Stanley definitely brings size and full credit to him for his willingness to step up, but he's not a fighter. Based on his size he'll never get the benefit of the doubt on penalties either. He should have realized this by now but it seems he hasn't.

On yesterday's game it was a frustrating loss, but I thought the Jets played well enough given the road trip, injuries and frequency of games. It was a close game.

The offense regressing to the mean was bound to happen. Scheifele is clearly hurt, Ehlers is out. That's quite a bit of offense gone there. Defense took a pick hit in losing Samberg. Insistence on slotting in Stanley isn't meeting expectations, though Heinola may be sore.

The team got a nice head start out of the season, let's hope they can re-group and get a bit healthier.

I have no idea what kind of injury Stanley is dealing with right now, but it could be one that is affecting his mobility. I thought he looked like a stronger skater earlier in the year, and you look at that intense Tampa game, he was solid. And people were thinking ok, that's why he is in the lineup. Haven't seen too many games like that since, and it does seem like a regression coming back in.
I don't question wanting him in against the Stars, he got a bit of a cheap shot in on Benn, which I liked. That's the team that ran Helly and scored a goal with his mask knocked off, so we have come to expect the refs to help Dallas out in their batttles with us.

I wish the PK got some credit for how hard they played yesterday, Pionk was really good out there, in his battles and reads.

Stanley may take time to get back to what he is expected to be from the coaches. It's clear bad Stanley might be worse than bad Beaulieu and that's some pretty lofty standards.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hope we can get back on track now.

I don’t want to see Stanley ever again.

Heinola forced to wait 2 years. Gets 2 game "opportunity".

Meanwhile ....... Jets commitment to Stanley has become pathological. If a friend was behaving like that you would hold an intervention.

 

[Weezeric]

Heinola forced to wait 2 years. Gets 2 game "opportunity".

Meanwhile ....... Jets commitment to Stanley has become pathological. If a friend was behaving like that you would hold an intervention.

Forced the wait two years? Did the coaches break his ankle to keep him out of the lineup?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The Jets once being the top were in the bullseye for other NHL teams...

Road trip eternal over...

No excuses in the near future....

Good road game by the Jets... on to the next game... home sweet home...

View attachment 938607

I game at home and then on the road again for 2? I'd call that the road trip finally ending (with a b2b) after 3 more games.

 

[Channelcat]

scheifele not being 100% + ehlers out last 1+ games doesn't help

I see 55 doing a lot of stupid stuff..... perhaps it's injury related, but watching him play, it doesn't appear that way

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Forced the wait two years? Did the coaches break his ankle to keep him out of the lineup?

I didn't say forced by the coaches. Forced by injury. Forced by circumstance. Forced by bad luck, bad timing. Just forced.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Mostly a good road game. Actually a pretty good performance considering the road trip they are on.

But ... Stanley ... penalties. SMH

Edit: Forgot to mention ... Kudos to the PK. Outstanding yesterday.

He’s not 6’7”

I wish I could laugh at that.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Apologies for piling on poor Stanley here, but I'm thinking our last two games actually showed that other teams see Stanley for what he is. The baffling question is why does the Jets organization not see those flaws.

From my perspective the last couple of games the teams approached the Jets by trying to get in behind the defense and had their greatest success with Stanley on the ice. When Barron served up the pizza it wasn't Stanley's fault, but it emphasized that his quickness is distinctly lacking. Not surprisingly for a man of that size; his agility and footspeed are not the same as a smaller, better skating defender would be. On that specific goal Stanley looked very much like he did in his draft year - slow of foot and rather immobile.

Over the past several games I've been watching and that is the persistent issue for him. If someone gets past him, he can't compensate. He's a big boy with a long reach but I think that does more to hide his inefficiencies than it does to help out. He is beer league level in some aspects of his mobility. The rest? Yup, 3rd pairing NHL defender and a guy I suppose you can slot in at points, but my feeling is that he isn't any better than Fleury or Coghlan or Miller.

Stanley definitely brings size and full credit to him for his willingness to step up, but he's not a fighter. Based on his size he'll never get the benefit of the doubt on penalties either. He should have realized this by now but it seems he hasn't.

On yesterday's game it was a frustrating loss, but I thought the Jets played well enough given the road trip, injuries and frequency of games. It was a close game.

The offense regressing to the mean was bound to happen. Scheifele is clearly hurt, Ehlers is out. That's quite a bit of offense gone there. Defense took a pick hit in losing Samberg. Insistence on slotting in Stanley isn't meeting expectations, though Heinola may be sore.

The team got a nice head start out of the season, let's hope they can re-group and get a bit healthier.

That is a bit of hyperbole. A beer level player. Even the worst of them are the best in the world and are better than players in the other leagues.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

'Logan stanley is not going to get better in the press box'

O.m.f.g

Wait, did someone actually say that?

Logan Stanley is 26 YO. He is playing in D+9. He is not going to get better.

 

[Gm0ney]

Wait, did someone actually say that?

Logan Stanley is 26 YO. He is playing in D+9. He is not going to get better.

Jets Head Coach Scott Arniel:

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Jets Head Coach Scott Arniel:

Good Grief!

"He needs to be on our Top 6. He’s got size"
Yeah, he needs it. No one else does. Size is all that he's got.

 

[gojetsgo]

I can see why the jets want somebody with size in the lineup with demelo/jmo/pionk being on the smaller side but my lord can we please make a trade and get somebody that is useful with his size?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wow, I'm not going to read any more of this negativity.

We played well, not good enough to win but I thought our effort was respectable, especially after the schedule we've been put through. I can't believe that any fan of the team would criticize the players, the same players that have us STILL leading the entire league in ROW and tied for first in points.

And to point out the obvious as I flounce angrily out of the room, we twice came within inches of tying the game in the last 180 seconds.

Door slam.

Yeah, Jets have played worse and won. Under the circumstances I was not unhappy with them yesterday.

But the negativity was building for a while. They have lost 6 in the last 10 and the road trip is not over. Lineup decisions have contributed to the last 2 losses.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Good Grief!

"He needs to be on our Top 6. He’s got size"
Yeah, he needs it. No one else does. Size is all that he's got.

If you just reword it a bit it makes much more sense..."He's just so darn tall! He needs to be in our top 6!"

lol...