Value of: Dalibor Dvorský to Philadelphia

[TurgPavs]

@Thallis & @TurgPavs thanks for tamping the expectations a little. I got Dvorsky as the future 2C, but I'm not sold on Snuggerud. DVo must prove himself in SPR. We will see if he can keep up with the Blues veterans during TC.

I am more excited about Bolduc then I am Dvorsky or Snuggy. Bolduc is a guy that should land on the roster after camp. I am not sure he is going to end up being a top line player in his career, but he should be one heck of a middle 6 guy for the Blues.

The two guys I expect to raise a ton of eyebrows in camp are Stancl and Pekarcik.
Both those guys have NHL bodies right now.
I wouldnt be surprised to see Stancl this season.

 

[CurrentCS]

Any concern you may have had should have been put to rest once the Blues took direct control of Dvorsky's development. His only mistake was leaving Stockholm and AIK where they knew him when he could have gotten Allsvenskan minutes and a bigger role. Instead he signed with what ended up being the worst team in the SHL just days before the draft. Joining a team immediately facing their own internal concerns over being relegated was a bad move but I'm really tired of this narrative that Dvorsky was at fault somehow other than picking a steaming pile of shit team to play for. His ice time was drastically cut over a 4 game span culminating in a healthy scratch. Making that an 18 year old Dvorsky's fault is pathetic and just lets Oskarshamn off the hook for not knowing what the f*** they're doing as evidenced by their last in the league record.

Yep 100%. Oskarshamn was an absolute dumpster fire .

 

[CurrentCS]

I am more excited about Bolduc then I am Dvorsky or Snuggy. Bolduc is a guy that should land on the roster after camp. I am not sure he is going to end up being a top line player in his career, but he should be one heck of a middle 6 guy for the Blues.

The two guys I expect to raise a ton of eyebrows in camp are Stancl and Pekarcik.
Both those guys have NHL bodies right now.
I wouldnt be surprised to see Stancl this season.

Huge fan of Pekarcik and whats crazy is he hasn't even turned 19 yet, he will in a few days.

Also think Stancl was a great pick but he's just 19 with about 20 forwards ahead of him. I think he's headed for the CHL this year which I think is a great thing, I just can't remember which team. I do think he may have 3rd line upside though.

 

[Petes2424]

The chances of him playing a second in the ECHL are zero. Not sure why people are making a big deal about an 18 year old not dominating right away in a pro men's league. He's gonna be fine.

If he looks anything like he did in the SHL last year, he’ll absolutely be playing in the ECHL. Or at least he should be. He couldn’t compete. He was that bad, and they can’t waste a year sending him back to Junior again. He’ll get nothing from going back, but a wasted development year.

Now, I’ve been pretty open about what I think of him. He’s just gonna take longer. Some kids can jump into high end men’s leagues and fit right in. Other great players over the years, have to dominate each level before taking that next step. Maybe that’s just him.

They did exactly what they needed to do with him last year. They needed to get him out of the SHL and back to juniors. He was that bad and would’ve ended up not playing much at all..

So hopefully he’s gained enough confidence to play in a league like the AHL. He’s skilled enough. You can’t send him back to Juniors this year though. If they have to do that, then people will start asking some pretty big questions. He has to play pro in North America too. So if he has to go play 30 games in the ECHL, who cares. As long as he’s getting better. They have to have some patience too though. Like Detroit did with Marco Kasper last year. It took him about 30 games to get his game going. He at least fit in though. Then he had a great year as a 19 year old in the AHL.

So I wouldn’t be too concerned yet. Let it play out. If he is as bad as he was in Sweden last year though, they can’t keep sending him out there every night. He has to at least fit in, or they’ll have a decision to make again. Juniors shouldn’t be that answer.

It’s not a bad thing for a 19 year old to play half a season in the ECHL. It’s a waste to send them back to Juniors though, when they’re clearly too good for the league, and all they’re gonna do is dominate.

 

[BleedBlue14]

If he looks anything like he did in the SHL last year, he’ll absolutely be playing in the ECHL. Or at least he should be. He couldn’t compete. He was that bad, and they can’t waste a year sending him back to Junior again. He’ll get nothing from going back, but a wasted development year.

Now, I’ve been pretty open about what I think of him. He’s just gonna take longer. Some kids can jump into high end men’s leagues and fit right in. Other great players over the years, have to dominate each level before taking that next step. Maybe that’s just him.

They did exactly what they needed to do with him last year. They needed to get him out of the SHL and back to juniors. He was that bad and would’ve ended up not playing much at all..

So hopefully he’s gained enough confidence to play in a league like the AHL. He’s skilled enough. You can’t send him back to Juniors this year though. If they have to do that, then people will start asking some pretty big questions. He has to play pro in North America too. So if he has to go play 30 games in the ECHL, who cares. As long as he’s getting better. They have to have some patience too though. Like Detroit did with Marco Kasper last year. It took him about 30 games to get his game going. He at least fit in though. Then he had a great year as a 19 year old in the AHL.

So I wouldn’t be too concerned yet. Let it play out. If he is as bad as he was in Sweden last year though, they can’t keep sending him out there every night. He has to at least fit in, or they’ll have a decision to make again. Juniors shouldn’t be that answer.

It’s not a bad thing for a 19 year old to play half a season in the ECHL. It’s a waste to send them back to Juniors though, when they’re clearly too good for the league, and all they’re gonna do is dominate.

Bolduc wasn't great in the AHL for the first half of the season or so and then hit a stride and got called up and played really well for the Blues.

It wasn't about point production with him though, it was his compete level at the NHL that showed, which given his scouting reports was very encouraging.

The Blues have been pretty good at drafting and developing over the years, especially with forwards in that mold. I'd venture to guess they'll ride with him at the AHL level regardless.

I didn't get much viewings of him playing last year in the AHL, but this kid seems extremely motivated from Army's words, and has pretty good reviews in regards from scouts to his play in the OHL last year as an 18 year old.

I wouldn't be overly concerned if he got sent to the ECHL, but I don't see the liklihood of that happening. I also don't see him spending much time in the NHL next year if at all. But given our roster construction, our front office seems pretty excited and encouraged that he'll be at the NHL level in a year or two.

He's got a great frame, a high end shot, and what seems like a really high competitive drive. It'll happen, it's just a matter of how long it'll take.

I think it's definitely plausible that at worst case scenario he can't jump into the top 6, but I find it hard not to see an NHL player there and one with alot of tools that can turn into a two way center pretty quickly and fill the hole we have at top 6 center outside of Thomas.

 

[Petes2424]

Bolduc wasn't great in the AHL for the first half of the season or so and then hit a stride and got called up and played really well for the Blues.

It wasn't about point production with him though, it was his compete level at the NHL that showed, which given his scouting reports was very encouraging.

The Blues have been pretty good at drafting and developing over the years, especially with forwards in that mold. I'd venture to guess they'll ride with him at the AHL level regardless.

I didn't get much viewings of him playing last year in the AHL, but this kid seems extremely motivated from Army's words, and has pretty good reviews in regards from scouts to his play in the OHL last year as an 18 year old.

I wouldn't be overly concerned if he got sent to the ECHL, but I don't see the liklihood of that happening. I also don't see him spending much time in the NHL next year if at all. But given our roster construction, our front office seems pretty excited and encouraged that he'll be at the NHL level in a year or two.

He's got a great frame, a high end shot, and what seems like a really high competitive drive. It'll happen, it's just a matter of how long it'll take.

I think it's definitely plausible that at worst case scenario he can't jump into the top 6, but I find it hard not to see an NHL player there and one with alot of tools that can turn into a two way center pretty quickly and fill the hole we have at top 6 center outside of Thomas.

And that’s what we should expect from a Top 10 pick, 2 years from his draft.. That he can at least compete against men when he’s physically gifted already. Then he should get better as the year goes along.

Last year was a roller coaster to say the least, but like I said, they got him back to playing juniors pretty fast, so he could regain confidence, and he had a great year against kids his own age. He just wasn’t ready to play against men last year. For whatever reason, he couldn’t compete. And like I said, that’s ok as an 18 year old.

This year though, they’ll expect him to be able to at least compete. If we get a replay of last year though, as it’s only been 9-10 months ago, he’s gonna need some time playing in lessor leagues. If that’s the ECHL, than that’s what it is. Nobody’s gonna care in 3 years if he’s playing well in the NHL. It wouldn’t be the first time.

You can ruin kids if they’re not ready. Exactly why they pulled him out of the SHL last year. It’s ridiculous for anyone to think the ECHL would be beneath a 19 year old kid. If he needs it, he needs it. We’ll find out in the next couple of months. Sending him back to Juniors would waste a year of development.

We should expect him to play in the AHL this year. We should also expect he may struggle some early, but then start producing by let’s say Xmas. That’s about normal. But it’s also normal for a Top 10 pick to play in the SHL (at 18) as well, and that was a disaster. So of course people will be interested to see if he’s taken that step.

The Blues aren’t going to ruin him. Even if that means sending him back to Juniors and wasting a year.

 

[Reality Czech]

If he looks anything like he did in the SHL last year, he’ll absolutely be playing in the ECHL. Or at least he should be. He couldn’t compete. He was that bad, and they can’t waste a year sending him back to Junior again. He’ll get nothing from going back, but a wasted development year.

Now, I’ve been pretty open about what I think of him. He’s just gonna take longer. Some kids can jump into high end men’s leagues and fit right in. Other great players over the years, have to dominate each level before taking that next step. Maybe that’s just him.

They did exactly what they needed to do with him last year. They needed to get him out of the SHL and back to juniors. He was that bad and would’ve ended up not playing much at all..

So hopefully he’s gained enough confidence to play in a league like the AHL. He’s skilled enough. You can’t send him back to Juniors this year though. If they have to do that, then people will start asking some pretty big questions. He has to play pro in North America too. So if he has to go play 30 games in the ECHL, who cares. As long as he’s getting better. They have to have some patience too though. Like Detroit did with Marco Kasper last year. It took him about 30 games to get his game going. He at least fit in though. Then he had a great year as a 19 year old in the AHL.

So I wouldn’t be too concerned yet. Let it play out. If he is as bad as he was in Sweden last year though, they can’t keep sending him out there every night. He has to at least fit in, or they’ll have a decision to make again. Juniors shouldn’t be that answer.

It’s not a bad thing for a 19 year old to play half a season in the ECHL. It’s a waste to send them back to Juniors though, when they’re clearly too good for the league, and all they’re gonna do is dominate.

Luckily most 18 year old hockey players improve as they get older. He was one of the better junior players last year so I don't think many Blues fans are concerned about a handful of second tier swedish league games at the beginning of the season. He's more likely to play NHL games than ECHL games this year.

 

[PocketNines]

"Dvorsky is so bad he belongs in the ECHL" is the kind of argument I highly doubt its owner will hang a lantern on if he's wrong

 

[TK 421]

Now some people will tell you this kid scored 45 goals and 43 assists for 88 points in 52 games in the OHL but that's misleading because none of it was against European professionals which means he actually scored 0 points in 71 games last year, fax, deal with it. But fear not Blues fans....he could still be an ECHL 1st line center so don't jump off that cliff just yet!

 

[Linkens Mastery]

They need to change the rules so 19 years old players can't play in Juniors anymore since it's a waste of developmental years if they aren't playing against men.

 

[Celtic Note]

If he looks anything like he did in the SHL last year, he’ll absolutely be playing in the ECHL. Or at least he should be. He couldn’t compete. He was that bad, and they can’t waste a year sending him back to Junior again. He’ll get nothing from going back, but a wasted development year.

Now, I’ve been pretty open about what I think of him. He’s just gonna take longer. Some kids can jump into high end men’s leagues and fit right in. Other great players over the years, have to dominate each level before taking that next step. Maybe that’s just him.

They did exactly what they needed to do with him last year. They needed to get him out of the SHL and back to juniors. He was that bad and would’ve ended up not playing much at all..

So hopefully he’s gained enough confidence to play in a league like the AHL. He’s skilled enough. You can’t send him back to Juniors this year though. If they have to do that, then people will start asking some pretty big questions. He has to play pro in North America too. So if he has to go play 30 games in the ECHL, who cares. As long as he’s getting better. They have to have some patience too though. Like Detroit did with Marco Kasper last year. It took him about 30 games to get his game going. He at least fit in though. Then he had a great year as a 19 year old in the AHL.

So I wouldn’t be too concerned yet. Let it play out. If he is as bad as he was in Sweden last year though, they can’t keep sending him out there every night. He has to at least fit in, or they’ll have a decision to make again. Juniors shouldn’t be that answer.

It’s not a bad thing for a 19 year old to play half a season in the ECHL. It’s a waste to send them back to Juniors though, when they’re clearly too good for the league, and all they’re gonna do is dominate.

I hear what you are saying but I highly doubt the Blues will put him in the ECHL. Our GM recently said it was a mistake to start Neighbours in the NHL just to send him down to the AHL (I agree!). He regrets that mistake and it was a confidence killer that limited Jake’s development. I don’t see him making that mistake with Dvorsky. He will likely start in the AHL.

I would also wager that leaving him in the AHL for a prolonged period of time to adjust to the game is what he needs to support his development.

The Blues success largely hinges on Dvo becoming a #2 center. I don’t think they are going to dink around with his development.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

I am more excited about Bolduc then I am Dvorsky or Snuggy. Bolduc is a guy that should land on the roster after camp. I am not sure he is going to end up being a top line player in his career, but he should be one heck of a middle 6 guy for the Blues.

The two guys I expect to raise a ton of eyebrows in camp are Stancl and Pekarcik.
Both those guys have NHL bodies right now.
I wouldnt be surprised to see Stancl this season.

Stancl isn’t close to ready and would have had to make monumental strides to reach the NHL in the time after he was selected. He has a limited skillset and poor skating. He would have to beat out quite a few older, more experienced, and flat out better players to reach the bottom 6, his destined role.

Kos is significantly more impressive as a defensive forward than what Stancl provides, and I don’t see Kos being ready for another 4 years.

 

[TurgPavs]

Stancl isn’t close to ready and would have had to make monumental strides to reach the NHL in the time after he was selected. He has a limited skillset and poor skating. He would have to beat out quite a few older, more experienced, and flat out better players to reach the bottom 6, his destined role.

Kos is significantly more impressive as a defensive forward than what Stancl provides, and I don’t see Kos being ready for another 4 years.

Thats a BOLD statement Cotton.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Thats a BOLD statement Cotton.

Odd statement coming from the man who wouldn’t be surprised to see Stancl on the Blues next year.

 

[GKJ]

No you don’t have any idea. That’s brutal for the Blues. Absolutely brutal. Maybe 20 cents on the dollar.

Laughton is not a valuable asset. The Avs just traded away the 24th pick for two 2nds and a 3rd. One was a high second rounder.

So that gives you an impression of the value of a 2nd rounder vs a high first round pick like Dvorsky.

20 cents on the dollar may be understating the delta.

You’re welcome on the Flyers board anytime to pontificate on Laughton’s relative to how the Flyers view him.

I’m serious.

 

[McJedi]

You’re welcome on the Flyers board anytime to pontificate on Laughton’s relative to how the Flyers view him.

I’m serious.

Some guys work best on their own teams. Laughton may be one of those guys. His value would be highest to the team he's on today, Philly.

With a 3 million dollar AAV, his value is poor for a good team that can't afford that on the 4th line. And he's simply not a good enough player to be a 3rd liner on a contender. So that's the rub. At 50% retained, he'd be very desired.

And you can probably admit this OP offer is a joke

 

[GKJ]

Some guys work best on their own teams. Laughton may be one of those guys. His value would be highest to the team he's on today, Philly.

With a 3 million dollar AAV, his value is poor for a good team that can't afford that on the 4th line. And he's simply not a good enough player to be a 3rd liner on a contender. So that's the rub. At 50% retained, he'd be very desired.

And you can probably admit this OP offer is a joke

Yes, you hit it all. Neither team would do this deal.

 

[Garbageyuk]

He’s a blue chip center prospect with Nick Suzuki type upside, imo. He’d be stupid expensive to acquire in terms of assets. The Flyers don’t have the required pieces to get a deal done. Not any they’d be willing to part with anyway.

 

[TurgPavs]

Odd statement coming from the man who wouldn’t be surprised to see Stancl on the Blues next year.

Touche.....

 

[ChicagoBlues]

He’s a blue chip center prospect with Nick Suzuki type upside, imo. He’d be stupid expensive to acquire in terms of assets. The Flyers don’t have the required pieces to get a deal done. Not any they’d be willing to part with anyway.

Right. Philly is simply not a good partner. I don’t subscribe to the idea that high-end prospects are untouchable, but any trade would have to start with a proven young defenseman for a future 2C.

This is the season during which we will see if Dvorsky truly projects to be a NHL 2C. A good indicator would be reporting to camp in top shape with 5-7 pounds of added muscle.

This is the season during which his trade value will become clearer.

 

[Xerloris]

If he looks anything like he did in the SHL last year, he’ll absolutely be playing in the ECHL. Or at least he should be. He couldn’t compete. He was that bad, and they can’t waste a year sending him back to Junior again. He’ll get nothing from going back, but a wasted development year.

Now, I’ve been pretty open about what I think of him. He’s just gonna take longer. Some kids can jump into high end men’s leagues and fit right in. Other great players over the years, have to dominate each level before taking that next step. Maybe that’s just him.

They did exactly what they needed to do with him last year. They needed to get him out of the SHL and back to juniors. He was that bad and would’ve ended up not playing much at all..

So hopefully he’s gained enough confidence to play in a league like the AHL. He’s skilled enough. You can’t send him back to Juniors this year though. If they have to do that, then people will start asking some pretty big questions. He has to play pro in North America too. So if he has to go play 30 games in the ECHL, who cares. As long as he’s getting better. They have to have some patience too though. Like Detroit did with Marco Kasper last year. It took him about 30 games to get his game going. He at least fit in though. Then he had a great year as a 19 year old in the AHL.

So I wouldn’t be too concerned yet. Let it play out. If he is as bad as he was in Sweden last year though, they can’t keep sending him out there every night. He has to at least fit in, or they’ll have a decision to make again. Juniors shouldn’t be that answer.

It’s not a bad thing for a 19 year old to play half a season in the ECHL. It’s a waste to send them back to Juniors though, when they’re clearly too good for the league, and all they’re gonna do is dominate.

Did you watch his games last year? last year was not completely his fault. He was on a shit team that frankly did not give a shit about how he developed so didn't try to put him in a situation to succeed. That's why the Blues pulled him out of it as soon as possible.