Player Discussion Dakota Joshua | Shut up and give him his money!

[Jerry the great]

Pretty sure Jeremy Colliton has been tasked with getting Podkolzin, Raty, Karlsson, and Bains ready by next season if they are needed to take over roles for Joshua, Blueger, and Lafferty.

None of those players brings what Joshua does to the table (not even close) and he is going to get term because of it. And he'll be worth every penny IMO. He's a battle winning, play extending machine with good hands that hits like a truck, is an outstanding penalty killer and backs up his teammates.

 

[VanJack]

Joshua is a one-man wrecking crew on the forecheck. He's almost impossible to move off the puck and can protect it along the wall even when double-teamed.

Now that he's scoring timely goals, he's rapidly becoming the third-line, power forward that every successful teams need. He's received some 'tough love' from Tocchet at times, but seems to have responded the right way.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Pretty sure Jeremy Colliton has been tasked with getting Podkolzin, Raty, Karlsson, and Bains ready by next season if they are needed to take over roles for Joshua, Blueger, and Lafferty.

Those spots should be earned by any one of those players playing at a level to push others down not simply gifted a position with our fingers crossed. We tried that during the last regime and both Podkolzin and Hoglander were promptly sent down after neither were remotely ready.

A player like Joshua can easily be traded down the road if say, Podkolzin is playing well enough to supplant him.

 

[StickShift]

Those spots should be earned by any one of those players playing at a level to push others down not simply gifted a position with our fingers crossed. We tried that during the last regime and both Podkolzin and Hoglander were promptly sent down after neither were remotely ready.

A player like Joshua can easily be traded down the road if say, Podkolzin is playing well enough to supplant him.

I agree that positions need to be earned.

I think we should take some solace that the AHL was able to make an NHL player out of Hoglander. No one had him gifted or pencilled into a top-six role this year—yet here we are.

You have to consider your overall cap situation. A lesser Podkolzin at ~$1.5m may have more value as a bargain to this roster next year than a Joshua at +$3.0m. That money could be the difference between being able to upgrade another position in our defense or top-six.

Not saying that any of those farm team players will be ready to take over those roles then. But the medium-term sustainability of their cap structure requires at least 1-2 to make the jump. I’m sure the Canucks have made that clear to Colliton.

 

[Jyrki21]

 

[God]

i love the competition part of that card

this is the deepest forward corps we've had in years (maybe ever, aside from the 2011 group) and while the others teams are going pound for pound against our top lines, the bottom six is just outplaying the other teams'.

 

[Shareefruck]

Very curious if this is just a hot streak/purely a momentary chemistry thing or if he's legitimately become this player for good.

Was going to say 2001-2004 Matt Cooke who was an elite 3rd line winger. I have a feeling Joshua is going to thrive in the playoffs....if he can be disciplined.

Cooke had way too much speed to be a reasonable comparison.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Very curious if this is just a hot streak/purely a momentary chemistry thing or if he's legitimately become this player for good.

He is playing point per game hockey, obviously he is not that good.

A great bottom 6 forward who can PK and chip in offensively while being physical, for sure.

 

[Shareefruck]

He is playing point per game hockey, obviously he is not that good.

A great bottom 6 forward who can PK and chip in offensively while being physical, for sure.

Well yeah, adjusting for sanity, I mean. There's a world of difference between those two.

I wonder if he can remain at least a "mainstay solid all-around 3rd line winger hovering around 0.5PPG" (which is what he LOOKS like might have been what he's turned into), or if he'd regress back to just a decent 4th line bottom sixer with flashes but can't be relied on for secondary offense like he was before (especially the moment that line gets broken up).

 

[F A N]

Well yeah, adjusting for sanity, I mean. There's a world of difference between those two.

I wonder if he can remain at least a "mainstay solid all-around 3rd line winger hovering around 0.5PPG" (which is what he LOOKS like might have been what he's turned into), or if he'd regress back to just a decent 4th line bottom sixer with flashes but can't be relied on for secondary offense like he was before (especially the moment that line gets broken up).

Agreed. I do think “relied on for secondary offense” is a broad term as well. Last season in essentially his first full season he put up 11 goals and 23 points. If he can produce 15ish goals 30ish points in a 3rd line role that’s still valuable given his size and ability to play a physical game but not quite “relied on for secondary scoring?”

 

[LemonSauceD]

He’s like our Marcus Foligno pretty much.

 

[BlamBlam]

Give him a chunk of that Myers money.

 

[timw33]

Give him a chunk of that Myers money.

All that Myers money is already going to Petey/Hronek.

 

[Siludin]

Get him on the ol' Burrows 4x$2m.
(Probably more like 4x$3m with capflation)

 

[Shareefruck]

Agreed. I do think “relied on for secondary offense” is a broad term as well. Last season in essentially his first full season he put up 11 goals and 23 points. If he can produce 15ish goals 30ish points in a 3rd line role that’s still valuable given his size and ability to play a physical game but not quite “relied on for secondary scoring?”

I think I'd count it. Basically I'm wondering if he's good enough to be the token totally established/consistent Higgins/Cooke-level player on the third line that every successful team needs.

If he just returns to 23 points and more 4th line caliber, that's fine, but pretty replaceable.

 

[F A N]

I think I'd count it. Basically I'm wondering if he's good enough to be the token totally established/consistent Higgins/Cooke-level player on the third line that every successful team needs.

If he just returns to 23 points and more 4th line caliber, that's fine, but pretty replaceable.

I understand. You’re kind of describing different players here though. Higgins was more of a middle 6 winger who was paid here with the expectation that he would play alongside Kesler. Cooke was an established 3rd line player who at one time we all loved and thought of as a 3rd line mainstay similar to how Hansen was later (different style of player)

I disagree that Joshua is “pretty replaceable” even if he returns to being an 11 goal 23 point 4th line player. That kind of production with his size, speed, physical game, and ability to PK aren’t common and “pretty replaceable.”

It obviously comes down to how much you are paying him and offensive production matters.

 

[Shareefruck]

I understand. You’re kind of describing different players here though. Higgins was more of a middle 6 winger who was paid here with the expectation that he would play alongside Kesler. Cooke was an established 3rd line player who at one time we all loved and thought of as a 3rd line mainstay similar to how Hansen was later (different style of player)

I disagree that Joshua is “pretty replaceable” even if he returns to being an 11 goal 23 point 4th line player. That kind of production with his size, speed, physical game, and ability to PK aren’t common and “pretty replaceable.”

It obviously comes down to how much you are paying him and offensive production matters.

Ehh, I don't know, I think the difference is marginal at best, and I'm not sure I'd agree that he was necessarily paid with that expectation, he was just a versatile player that could be used either way and just happened to land there for a few years because it happened to be where the holes ended up being (didn't he end up playing just as many years on the 3rd line away from Kesler anyways?). With the way that the Sedins weren't providing secondary scoring at the time, I'd consider Cooke's role pretty similarly middle six as well, and there were a few stretches where he played with Brendan Morrison and provided support for him in much the same way.

I don't know if I'm as high on the 23 point version of Joshua, personally. He had strength, but no speed, his physical game was very inconsistent, and while he had surprising spurts of impressive anticipation/forechecking/PK ability, I didn't feel that it was something that would be super reliable on a good team, nor did it always translate into strong 5-on-5 play even by 4th line standards (there are a lot of good 4th liners with some specialization like that, but I wouldn't necessarily lose sleep over retaining them-- more just a nice to have). His combination of skills were certainly a bit on the bizarre side, but I don't think the uncommonness made it essential. I feel like that version of him was less useful and less of a staple than guys like Keane, Lapierre or Motte, personally. I was pretty fine with him being healthy scratched early this year, for example, and in previous years, I felt he was only a staple because of how bad the teams were.

 

[DL44]

Dakota Joshua is why you always cut bait and don't remain status quo with 3rd and 4th liners when they don't express offensive contribution.

You have to cycle thru the Gaunces, Granlunds, Studnikas, Dries, Highmores, Gaudettes, Boyd's, Lockwood's, Gadjovichs, MacEwens to find that Dakota Joshua..

What a beauty!

 

[LemonSauceD]

Dakota Joshua is why you always cut bait and don't remain status quo with 3rd and 4th liners when they don't express offensive contribution.

You have to cycle thru the Gaunces, Granlunds, Studnikas, Dries, Highmores, Gaudettes, Boyd's, Lockwood's, Gadjovichs, MacEwens to find that Dakota Joshua..

What a beauty!

Much easier when you have management that is able to actually identify talent. Although of those names, I wished Gadjovich had an extended look. Would have been a fine 4th liner/enforcer. Although his game wasn’t really all about that until he went to San Jose and had to play that way to stay in the line up. The NHL has a habit of making you what it wants you to be.

 

[VanJack]

Dakota Joshua is why you always cut bait and don't remain status quo with 3rd and 4th liners when they don't express offensive contribution.

You have to cycle thru the Gaunces, Granlunds, Studnikas, Dries, Highmores, Gaudettes, Boyd's, Lockwood's, Gadjovichs, MacEwens to find that Dakota Joshua..

What a beauty!

I'm sure by now the Canucks would love to bring Joshua back, and he probably wants to come back.

But the rest of the league is seeing exactly the same thing that you and I are seeing night after night. So if he gets to free agency, he may be priced out of the Canucks salary cap budget.

I suspect he gets at least a three-year deal somewhere with a serious bump in salary. Really hope the Canucks can match......but wouldn't be a shock if they can't.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm sure by now the Canucks would love to bring Joshua back, and he probably wants to come back.

But the rest of the league is seeing exactly the same thing that you and I are seeing night after night. So if he gets to free agency, he may be priced out of the Canucks salary cap budget.

I suspect he gets at least a three-year deal somewhere with a serious bump in salary. Really hope the Canucks can match......but wouldn't be a shock if they can't.

Yuppp.

I think he is going to be overpaid somewhere else next year. Its a shame for us. Really like the player.

 

[Coffee]

Yuppp.

I think he is going to be overpaid somewhere else next year. Its a shame for us. Really like the player.

Myers 6 mil is off the books, Aman and Hoglander are still at 1 mil next year and both great young players who can very well grow next year.

Our pro scouting seems legit, I agree with what you said however, it may not be as bad as we think.

We would need to really hit a value contract in the back end though

 

[MS]

You wonder if we’ve missed the boat here by not moving quicker on an extension.

Terrific player whose skillset will be difficult/impossible to replace. Hopefully they can get something done.

Feels a bit like the Pettersson contract situation is holding up everything else.

 

[Nazzlind]

Seems like the type of player Anaheim would overpay for

Could see them offering a $4x4

 

[CanuckleBerry]

You wonder if we’ve missed the boat here by not moving quicker on an extension.

Terrific player whose skillset will be difficult/impossible to replace. Hopefully they can get something done.

Feels a bit like the Pettersson contract situation is holding up everything else.

Yeah...
Seems like right now Blueger is getting a bit more of the attention for the success of that third line and a potential re-sign, but Joshua's contributions strike me as just as unique and maybe even more difficult to replace. His size, grit and scoring touch is something that no one else in the organization brings.

Both Joshua and Blueger might be playing (pricing) themselves right off this roster in the off-season because we have a pair of overpaid unproductive wingers above them (Kuzmenko/Mikheyev). If we can't afford both, it may force management's hand to further focus on the second line construction, because I don't know how easy it will be to catch lightning in a bottle on the 3rd line all over again.