D Tom Willander - Boston University, NCAA (2023, 11th, VAN)

[pgfan66]

Ahhhhh it’s still Stevie K against the world. Love it. Good thing (or bad thing, I guess?) HFBoards isn’t Twitter or else you’d all be blocked. Which, to be fair, would probably be a lot nicer than having this thread filled with Steve’s back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back “you’re all stupid” posts.

 

[rt]

This USHL forward business is a strawman and doesn’t change the facts — top-20 rated Swedish defensemen between 2014-2020 aren’t hitting and are outperformed by forwards taken after.

Willander was rated No. 12 on the Euro list. That’s why the cohort group is Top-20 ranked Swedish dmen from 2014-2020. I didn’t say 2008-2013 because those were great years for Swedish draft prospects. Hence, the downward trend. No bias. Just a factual observation.

What USHL forwards do has nothing to do with the higher bust rate for recent Swedish defensemen compared to 2008-2013. The data is clear. If anyone is moving goalposts, it’s you — games played isn’t enough. They need to be players drafted high in a re-draft. The only Swedish dmen who go higher or stay the same in a 2014-2020 redraft is Pettersson, Dahlin, Kylington, and Liljegren.

75 percent bust rate. Not good. The 2008-2013 group’s bust rate was far lower and produced future HHOF’ers, all stars, and Norris candidates. All 2014-2020 has is Dahlin.


All that said, I just watched two Willander games against Vaxjo and Orebro and he was sloppy. One game he got beat for a break-in off the opening draw Lol. Lots of blown coverages and indecision.

You guys are getting Button’ed again. Watch the J20 film.

Like I said, risky player. Not top-15 caliber. Great tournaments, so-so league play. All of his assists are handoffs outside two or three exceptions. Grans was the same in his draft year. Nothing creative and not a “shutdown” defender. Willander is two-way with upside at best.

Who’s better, Willander or Duda? Two guys headed to NCAA after playing pro Europe/Russia.

 

[sting101]

It was an observation someone made. I looked into it. He was correct. Swedish dmen aren’t hitting like they used to.

Sandin-Pelikka isn’t overrated. I’ll still be watching his development because of the trend, but he’s worthy of a top-10 pick. Not saying I’d rank him there, but he deserves it. Boils down to preference.

Willander is overrated. High upside, high risk. Based on this thread, sounds like very little was watched of his J20 season and all assessments are from tournaments because they were televised (with Button’s short-sample hyperbole for analysis) and anybody can watch them. That’s a slippery slope.

Vancouver fans have been buying what the media says. Other media piggy back and you get the echo chamber. I recommend watching the J20 games. Not that expensive.

Again, it’s a trend. Dismissing it won’t change it. Just have to see how it ends. This happened with Russian dmen from 1994 well into the 2000s. Nothing biased. Just cyclical.

Fair enough just thought it was weird to single out Sweden. As I presented it seems middle to late 1st round D are having a hard time with long runways to success if at all which is something teams should keep in mind when drafting them so high.

On Willander I agree. I've said as much in the Canucks boards. Had him at 23 on my list and have tried my best to contextualize his U18 performance. (Maybe 15-23 now) People are being sucked into a recency bias as his tools are very good but not exactly dynamic on a Makar or Heiskanen level and he is not a physical beast so I tend to believe he will need that long runway and that's not someone I would be investing a 11th OA on in a draft like this as I believe that there is ELC value on the board in a extremely talented forward crop.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

They sure hit higher with their ZERO late 1st round dmen picks during that period.

Stop acting obtuse and answer the question I presented instead.

There’s only one relevant question — why are Swedish defensemen not hitting like they used to?

Let’s say Hedman and Dahlin cancel out. Klefbom was 19th, Karlsson 15th, Brodin 10th, Lindholm 6th, OEL 6th. Of course, they have busts too (Rundblad, Erixon).

Now compare that group with Johansson at 24, Boqvist at 8 Broberg at 8, and Soderstrom at 11.

As you can see, you can’t compare. Hence, the downward trend. Nobody's being obtuse.

Who’s better, Willander or Duda? Two guys headed to NCAA after playing pro Europe/Russia.

Duda was 32 in a so-so draft and Willander is 30 in a deep one, so I’d give the edge to Willander. But Duda’s got the better IQ on offense and Willander faster, more physical.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Ahhhhh it’s still Stevie K against the world. Love it. Good thing (or bad thing, I guess?) HFBoards isn’t Twitter or else you’d all be blocked. Which, to be fair, would probably be a lot nicer than having this thread filled with Steve’s back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back “you’re all stupid” posts.

Speaking of echo chamber lol.

I’m sorry for triggering your acceptance issues. There is an ignore button.

 

[pgfan66]

Speaking of echo chamber lol.

I’m sorry for triggering your acceptance issues. There is an ignore button.

Ah cool, didn't have to use that feature before. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[theslatcher]

There’s only one relevant question — why are Swedish defensemen not hitting like they used to?

Let’s say Hedman and Dahlin cancel out. Klefbom was 19th, Karlsson 15th, Brodin 10th, Lindholm 6th, OEL 6th. Of course, they have busts too (Rundblad, Erixon).

Now compare that group with Johansson at 24, Boqvist at 8 Broberg at 8, and Soderstrom at 11.

As you can see, you can’t compare. Hence, the downward trend. Nobody's being obtuse.

No, if your argumentation is based on a tainted foundation then whatever you try to argue will lose a lot of its weight.

Anyway, this topic at hand has elapsed long enough for this thread. Create a thread for this, what seems to be well documented phenomenon, with your facts and all of that.

---

With that out of the way...

Tom Willander's strong second half has made him a lock for first round in 2023 NHL Draft

Russ Cohen shares an exclusive interview with Swedish defenceman and 2023 NHL Draft prospect Tom Willander.

eprinkside.com

Tom says the thing he needs to work on is his offensive game, and wants to build up more strength, & size. Plus work on his explosiveness.

Really likes Heiskanen's game, sees a lot of his game in Miro's.

 

[Breakers]

Love love the hype for H.E. next season


Gonna be so fun
Reminds me of the B1G10 this past season
Cyclical nature of conferences

1st overall pick for next draft
Beanpot rivalry’s
The crazy talent incoming for freshman
Levshunov has been considering it.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Suprisingly not on the swedish WJSS-roster.

 

[Rogie21]

"Tom says the thing he needs to work on is his offensive game, and wants to build up more strength, & size. Plus work on his explosiveness."

This is likely why he'll be at BU the next few seasons. In addition to playing on N.American-sized sheets and having access to an NHL-caliber strength/conditioning facility, Jay Pandolfo's team plays an uptempo style that encourages defensemen to jump into the play. BU has three offensive Ds returning (Hutson, Gallagher, McCarthy), so Willander won't be under pressure to ramp up the offense right from the get-go. He'll also benefit from BU's skills coach Kim Brandvold, who spent seven seasons in that role for the Bruins, working with McAvoy, Carlo, Grzelcyk, Krug and others. In short, "finishing school."

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

The thing I like about Willander isn't Button making an outlandish comparison or where he's rated.

It's the details in his defensive game, combined with his skating ability & poise + handle with the puck. Nvm size & ability to play physical in an effective way. Not saying he's played perfect every game but these tools are evident.

He's an aware player that has the tools to go against the other teams best players. It's not sexy but you need these players to win.

 

[MMC]

Welcome to Vancouver

 

[Bubbles]

Pretty telegraphed from the beginning.

Looks like Ivan Drago.

 

[Hallzy]

Hope im wrong, but I don't like this. I guess we're just rolling with a swede that was playing over the top at the u18s

 

[Hinterland]

Well. I knew some defenders would get drafted earlier than people generally thought...I didn't have Willander or Simashev in the 1st round though.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Alvin is biased against north american players go look at his atrocious record at pitt

 

[Breakers]

Alvin is biased against north american players go look at his atrocious record at pitt

Vancouver has the worst CHL scouts in the league by a substantial margin

He probably knows to ignore them

 

[Connor McConnor]

He needs like 2-3 years to develop if he has a chance of reaching his ceiling which is a 2nd pair guy. I think he’s got a good floor to him once he develops

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Love this pick, just what the doc ordered for the Canucks.

 

[EXTRAS]

When they announced him I was a little disappointed....then I saw that swagger...that intensity and drive in his stare...and that intelligence in his interview. Gonna push my daughter to try and marry him.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Great pick in a deep draft

 

[Coffees]

@Just A Bit Outside how we feeling now?

This guys the real deal.

 

[Knight53]

He’s the best dman in the draft IMO. Smooth like Heiskanen. Hoping he makes it to 11.

Couldn’t be more excited.

 

[pgfan66]

I love him as a player and I’m sure who he is as a person only makes this a better pick. Very intelligent, very aware of where he’s at in his development. Looking forward to following his progress in the NCAA.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Needed and taken