D Cale Makar - UMass (Amherst), NCAA (2017, 4th, COL)

[MonyontheMoney]

I have experiences in the MJAHL (MHL now) and SJHL, both leagues every player got a per diem, and it was not just a set stipend. There were different amounts based on who the player was. Not to mention all the free gear, and flights home, etc.

Billet families also got their weekly stipend.

Again, you call it a "per diem", yet it's really not if billet, travel and therefore living expenses were covered. What you call a per diem, would actually exceed any living expenses that are already looked after by teams, thus making the players "paid to play" or professional.

Equipment, flights and anything that pertains to living expenses is allowed, it's when that figure is exceeded that it does (or at least should) become a problem.

 

[Daximus]

I have experiences in the MJAHL (MHL now) and SJHL, both leagues every player got a per diem, and it was not just a set stipend. There were different amounts based on who the player was. Not to mention all the free gear, and flights home, etc. This happens in every junior A league, it is never going to effect NCAA eligibility.

Billet families also got their weekly stipend. But to think that the players themselves don't get money is foolish.

The silly thing is that it affects the CHL who also get a "stipend". Some players get very little. I had a buddy play for Red Deer, he was getting about $400 per month I think. Plus his billets also got money.

It's very hypocritical of the NCAA to turn a blind eye to Junior A but be so strict about the CHL.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I know a tonne of guys that played in the BCHL for Victoria, Trail, Chilliwack, Langley, Vernon and Salmon Arm among others and there were a lot of them that would talk about bribes being offered to a lot of kids. There is no draft in the BCHL so guys can just sign anywhere (highest bidder) although I think they tried a draft once. But I've always thought they should be doing a Bantam Draft of their own to limit the bribes that happen. Some teams would obviously bribe guys to play but at least it wouldn't be a bidding war.

Yes, I'd believe it. Have often thought drafts in the CJHL would do wonders for the parity.

Anyways, I've derailed the thread a fair bit, as for Makar, he's a tremendous player. Played in the AJHL south division in his rookie year, and man, he was good.

 

[Daximus]

Yes, I'd believe it. Have often thought drafts in the CJHL would do wonders for the parity.

BCHL definitely has the upper hand right now because who the hell doesn't want to go play hockey in BC over anywhere else in the country? haha plus they'll pay me!? Where do I sign!?!

 

[BondraTime]

Again, you call it a "per diem", yet it's really not if billet, travel and therefore living expenses were covered. What you call a per diem, would actually exceed any living expenses that are already looked after by teams, thus making the players "paid to play" or professional.

Equipment, flights and anything that pertains to living expenses is allowed, it's when that figure is exceeded that it does (or at least should) become a problem.

That's the point I'm making. Every player is getting more than it's expenses paid for. They are not making money as you would in the real world at a job, but these guys have more money left over every week/month than their expenses are. Nobody was coming home with bags of money, but I do know that a few from my team went down south when the season was over off of money they had throughout the season.

It's always happening, and will continue to happen in every league (I'd imagine the BCHL and AJHL are worse than the Maritime league and SJHL from my experiences).

 

[Daximus]

Again, you call it a "per diem", yet it's really not if billet, travel and therefore living expenses were covered. What you call a per diem, would actually exceed any living expenses that are already looked after by teams, thus making the players "paid to play" or professional.

Equipment, flights and anything that pertains to living expenses is allowed, it's when that figure is exceeded that it does (or at least should) become a problem.

Yeah like I said it's such an odd decision to say one league is considered professional because of it yet another is not. But I assume they know that if they cut out the Junior A leagues that is a huge amount of their talent draw lost so they pretend like it's not a problem with them. They are to deep with the CHL leagues to reverse the decision at this point likely.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

That's the point I'm making. Every player is getting more than it's expenses paid for. They are not making money as you would in the real world at a job, but these guys have more money left over every week/month than their expenses are. Nobody was coming home with bags of money, but I do know that a few from my team went down south when the season was over off of money they had throughout the season.

It's always happening, and will continue to happen in every league (I'd imagine the BCHL and AJHL are worse than the Maritime league and SJHL from my experiences).

I was just going off of your original response where you said it had nothing to do with NCAA eligibility. Whether or not it actually does is another argument, but it absolutely should.

 

[Daximus]

That's the point I'm making. Every player is getting more than it's expenses paid for. They are not making money as you would in the real world at a job, but these guys have more money left over every week/month than their expenses are. Nobody was coming home with bags of money, but I do know that a few from my team went down south when the season was over off of money they had throughout the season.

It's always happening, and will continue to happen in every league (I'd imagine the BCHL and AJHL are worse than the Maritime league and SJHL from my experiences).

But we are talking about full on cash signing bonuses that friends of mine that have played in the BCHL have said happens often. As in a team paying a player from say Alberta $XX,XXX dollars in cash, usually to their parents, to play for them. That would and should be considered against NCAA rules. But what is worse is the WHL, OHL and QMJHL also get the same stipends, travel expenses and what not. Maybe not the same amounts but they get the same types of payments made and are considered "pros" by the NCAA when they really shouldn't be.

 

[BondraTime]

I was just going off of your original response where you said it had nothing to do with NCAA eligibility. Whether or not it actually does is another argument, but it absolutely should.

You're allowed to accept things from non-professional teams, which Junior A teams are considered. If they were considered professional, they wouldn't be able to. That's why it has nothing to do with anything.

The moment you accept something from a professional team (CHL, AHL, NHL, etc.) you lose eligibility. Until Junior A leagues are considered professional, it absolutely has nothing to do with anything.

 

[BondraTime]

But we are talking about full on cash signing bonuses that friends of mine that have played in the BCHL have said happens often. As in a team paying a player from say Alberta $XX,XXX dollars in cash, usually to their parents, to play for them. That would and should be considered against NCAA rules. But what is worse is the WHL, OHL and QMJHL also get the same stipends, travel expenses and what not. Maybe not the same amounts but they get the same types of payments made and are considered "pros" by the NCAA when they really shouldn't be.

That's all well and good. Until they accept something from a professional team (IE NOT A JUNIOR A TEAM) it matters not.

 

[Breakers]

BCHL definitely has the upper hand right now because who the hell doesn't want to go play hockey in BC over anywhere else in the country? haha plus they'll pay me!? Where do I sign!?!

That's all speculation.

I wasn't paid in the BCHL.

 

[Daximus]

That's all well and good. Until they accept something from a professional team (IE NOT A JUNIOR A TEAM) it matters not.

That's all we are saying here. The only thing that separates the CHL leagues from Junior A leagues is that the NCAA considers them professional because of the stipends. When the Junior A leagues receive the same kinds of stipends, maybe not as much, maybe more in some cases. It's hypocritical and makes absolutely no sense. Obviously the NCAA gets to make their own rules but we are just pointing out the hypocrisy.

 

[Daximus]

That's all speculation.

I wasn't paid in the BCHL.

Did you receive a stipend?

 

[Breakers]

Did you receive a stipend?

Yeah but the team handled all room and board. You don't see any money.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah but the team handled all room and board. You don't see any money.

So then just your billets were paid?

 

[MonyontheMoney]

You're allowed to accept things from non-professional teams, which Junior A teams are considered. If they were considered professional, they wouldn't be able to. That's why it has nothing to do with anything.

The moment you accept something from a professional team (CHL, AHL, NHL, etc.) you lose eligibility. Until Junior A leagues are considered professional, it absolutely has nothing to do with anything.

It is considered amateur, because they aren't supposed to get paid anything over what they spend. The minute they actually make money, is when violation occurs, regardless of what the league they play in is considered.

Under "Amatuer Athletic Clubs".

http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/future/amateurism-certification-initial-eligibility

 

[Breakers]

So then just your billets were paid?

Yeah

 

[Mickey the mouse]

You're allowed to accept things from non-professional teams, which Junior A teams are considered. If they were considered professional, they wouldn't be able to. That's why it has nothing to do with anything.

The moment you accept something from a professional team (CHL, AHL, NHL, etc.) you lose eligibility. Until Junior A leagues are considered professional, it absolutely has nothing to do with anything.

The NCAA players receive a stipend ( some around 2k - 2500 ) above and beyond their schooling, meal allowance, room ( either dorm or X amount for living off campus ) , books, apparel, meals at rink before/ after practice or workouts and God knows what else.

I believe it has more to do with playing against players that are under contract to Pro teams. The individuals are considered Proffesionals. Although IIHF events, WJC - MWC- Olympics, are excluded

 

[Daximus]

The NCAA players receive a stipend ( some around 2k - 2500 ) above and beyond their schooling, meal allowance, room ( either dorm or X amount for living off campus ) , books, apparel, meals at rink before/ after practice or workouts and God knows what else.

I believe it has more to do with playing against players that are under contract to Pro teams. The individuals are considered Proffesionals. Although IIHF events, WJC - MWC- Olympics, are excluded

It's still a very odd stand to take. You guys can't come here if you are getting a CHL stipend and playing against players under contract. But you can receive other stipends, just not CHL stipends. Oh and you can play with and against them in other tournaments. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Only billets are given money in BCHL. Players are not paid

Alot of teams pay the real good players under the table but teams get in massive trouble if caught. Some players got a huge chunk of cash to play for certain teams(not gonna list some of the teams that i know for a fact does this).. Also some players get paid monthly under the table quite a bit.... There is alot of money secretly being thrown around

If a top player from a different province/country decides to join a certain team, chances are they are getting paid... Also if a good WHL player gets released from the WHL, there is a sort of bidding war from certain teams to get him to come play for that BCHL team

....again, i know for a fact this happens

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The NCAA players receive a stipend ( some around 2k - 2500 ) above and beyond their schooling, meal allowance, room ( either dorm or X amount for living off campus ) , books, apparel, meals at rink before/ after practice or workouts and God knows what else.

I believe it has more to do with playing against players that are under contract to Pro teams. The individuals are considered Proffesionals. Although IIHF events, WJC - MWC- Olympics, are excluded

This is the correct answer to this question.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

This is the correct answer to this question.

Not really. It's part of it sure, but there's a hell of a lot more than one or two things that void eligibility per NCAA rules.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Not really. It's part of it sure, but there's a hell of a lot more than one or two things that void eligibility per NCAA rules.

The primary reason that the NCAA considers the CHL to be a professional league is that it has some players who are under professional contracts. It isn't about the tiny stipends or billet compensation.

Why did the CHL come to be recognized as a professional league? Because certain schools in certain states wanted to be able to compete nationally without recruiting from Canada (or even outside of their state).

 

[MonyontheMoney]

The primary reason that the NCAA considers the CHL to be a professional league is that it has some players who are under professional contracts. It isn't about the tiny stipends or billet compensation.

Why did the CHL come to be recognized as a professional league? Because certain schools in certain states wanted to be able to compete nationally without recruiting from Canada (or even outside of their state).

I provided a link a couple posts ago, choose to ignore it or acknowledge it, but it proves there is more to the story than just playing against players with professional contracts.

The NCAA Clearing House is pretty damn extensive if they only are looking to discover if you've ever played against guys with pro contracts.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You are literally comparing apples to oranges.
The CHL is 60 teams. The USHL is 17.

So it would sense to compare the USHL to an individual league, like the QMJHL for instance.

Total USHL drafted players in 2016 = 32 (+15 Alumni)
Total QMJHL drafted players in 2016 = 14
Total OHL drafted players in 2016 = 48
Total WHL drafted players in 2016 = 34

Getting drafted doesn't mean you're going to be a good NHL player.

The best NA players in the NHL in terms of scoring and awards come from Canadian major junior.