Lol yes because CHL players have no future. Most players in Tier II are there because they are not good enough to play in the CHL, don't kid yourself.
D Cale Makar - UMass (Amherst), NCAA (2017, 4th, COL)
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Lol yes because CHL players have no future. Most players in Tier II are there because they are not good enough to play in the CHL, don't kid yourself.
Lol yes because CHL players have no future. Most players in Tier II are there because they are not good enough to play in the CHL, don't kid yourself.
Many are there for that reason others stay to play NCAA. Especially BC kids. A lot of that has to do with the rise of Prep Hockey in BC. That kind of thought could be making it's way into Alberta where prep schools are also gaining a lot of traction.
Noting arguing about why some are there, the fact the statement "have a future" was a bit rich. How many players go the NCAA route then leave early. There are lots, I would bet the majority, for example the Bruins Krug, McAvoy, Heinen, Carlo never finished, although Krug did just finish his degree, five years later. Just gets annoying hearing how the NCAA route is the Be all end all, when in fact most take gym courses. CHL players get free university, college or trade school paid for, one year for every year played, up to two years after they leave the CHL, which means they can try to make tow NHL and play minor pro for a couple of years and if it doesn't work out, then go to school. Both are good options, players choice.
AnArmchairScout
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2016
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I personally am not the biggest fan of Cale Makar.
Raw skillset: Checkmark.
Gifted skating: Checkmark.
The two things that really stand out for me is the league he's playing in and what his future plans are.
Me living in British Columbia, I will say that the BCHL is slightly better than the AJHL, different style of game, more fast paced, loads of american kids get cut their NAHL, USHL teams to play in the BCHL.
In the case of Tyson Jost and Dante Fabbro last year, both of these guys I can throw into a WHL game and they would keep up and have no problem with. Games are alot more polished and with the BCHL being a fast paced less physical league, players abilities show. In the AJHL, it's typical Alberta hockey rough and rumble type of game, not many players in that league have or even will have the skill Cale Makar does at the same age.
His future plans are odd, I appreciate the commitment but I feel that he needs to play at a more established University such as Jost and Fabbro are, he needs to develop and he could be very good, however his game at junior level and his game next year could make or break his pro potential, could either excel or get caught with his pants down.
He's a good player but I want him to be running a blueline against some tougher compeition to throw him ahead of some other defenseman in this draft.
Raw skillset: Checkmark.
Gifted skating: Checkmark.
The two things that really stand out for me is the league he's playing in and what his future plans are.
Me living in British Columbia, I will say that the BCHL is slightly better than the AJHL, different style of game, more fast paced, loads of american kids get cut their NAHL, USHL teams to play in the BCHL.
In the case of Tyson Jost and Dante Fabbro last year, both of these guys I can throw into a WHL game and they would keep up and have no problem with. Games are alot more polished and with the BCHL being a fast paced less physical league, players abilities show. In the AJHL, it's typical Alberta hockey rough and rumble type of game, not many players in that league have or even will have the skill Cale Makar does at the same age.
His future plans are odd, I appreciate the commitment but I feel that he needs to play at a more established University such as Jost and Fabbro are, he needs to develop and he could be very good, however his game at junior level and his game next year could make or break his pro potential, could either excel or get caught with his pants down.
He's a good player but I want him to be running a blueline against some tougher compeition to throw him ahead of some other defenseman in this draft.
CanuckCity
Registered User
Couple more examples--Mike Reilly put up 83 points in the BCHL, good college numbers and hasn't cracked the Wild roster yet. Jost also dominating BCHL and put up 35 pts in 33 games at UND, much harder to duplicate success at next level.
CanuckCity
Registered User
I think with Makar its more about the raw talent than the #'s. If you were good enough to be pulling off the stuff he is, why wouldnt you? Also as another poster pointed out thats part of the team's system.
I'd bet that he understands he won't have a leash like this in the big leagues and will need to play a structured systems game. I have a feeling his interview and combine results will be a huge factor in whether he goes 4/5 or 8/9.
I'd bet that he understands he won't have a leash like this in the big leagues and will need to play a structured systems game. I have a feeling his interview and combine results will be a huge factor in whether he goes 4/5 or 8/9.
Birko19
Registered User
I made a similar argument in our Red Wings section, the response I got was that the USHL is a lot more competitive than the AJHL, I looked it up further, and it seems like a lot more players make the NHL from the USHL than the AJHL, since 2006, you have:
USHL
Max Pacioretty
Jacob Trouba
Kyle Okposo
Jaden Schwartz
Johnny Gaudreau
Justin Faulk
Jaccob Slavin
Dylan Larkin
Jeff Petry
John Carlson
J.T. Miller
John Gibson
Brady Skjei
Jason Zucker
Zemgus Girgensons
Connor Murphy
Craig Smith
Jimmy Hayes
Jake Guentzel
Alex Chiasson
Trevor Lewis
Ryan Dzingel
Patrick Wiercioch
John Moore
Eric Gryba
Jon Merrill
Matt Bartkowski
AJHL
Colton Parayko
Joe Colborne
USHL seems like a very solid place to draft out of, that's not even including the players that are trying to make it or players that also played there but drafted out of college (Eichel). I would be very worried drafting Makar, the list of players that made it speaks for itself.
covfefe
Zoltan Poszar's Burner
- Feb 5, 2014
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Jost led UND in PPG, was one of our best players in the WJC, and was in the NHL by season's end...a year after his draft. With that in mind, I'm struggling to understand how he is an example of a former Jr A player who failed to replicate his success at the next level. He actually strikes me as just about the absolute worst example you could pick to prove that point...only impressed if he led the nation in scoring, or what?
Also, Troy Stecher was on that team with Reilly. He scored less points but is a regular NHLer today. So....your argument loses some steam there. Though I'm hardly surprised at that, because there are very few regular BCHL followers around here and I am 100% positive you never watched Mike Reilly or Jost in a Vees uniform
What I love about Makar is that 9 out of 10 posts focus on the league he is playing in, not the actual weaknesses in his game. I take this to be a very, very positive sign. Everyone wants to handicap the league he plays in but no one wants to handicap the person who actually matters in all of this.
Breakers
Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
Birko19
Registered User
It's not about handicapping the league, it's the reality, what has that league produced in the past 10 years? Makar may very well great, but who he's playing against is very important and should not be ignored.
It's hard to find weaknesses in someones game when they aren't surrounded by players strong enough to expose them. With that being said there are plenty of weaknesses in Makars defensive game. His tendency to vacate the dzone when the puck is still in the corner. He also gets pushed around rather easily by bigger players when they can catch him. Thing is not many of the bigger guys in the AJHL are even half the skaters Makar is so he works his speed. That gap will close considerably at higher levels. Those are some weaknesses, his game is far from perfect.
Patrik Barkov
Registered User
- Jun 25, 2016
- 2,386
- 3,718
Cale Makar (late -98) 2016-17:
54 GP 24 G 51 A 75 P
Possibly a top 5 pick.
Brimson Pasinchnuk (late -97) 2015-16:
52 GP 20 G 45 A 65 P
Went undrafted.
I'm only stat watching and not trying to make a real statement here. I just found this interesting since their stats aren't too far apart. Can anyone who actually follows the league go deeper here?
54 GP 24 G 51 A 75 P
Possibly a top 5 pick.
Brimson Pasinchnuk (late -97) 2015-16:
52 GP 20 G 45 A 65 P
Went undrafted.
I'm only stat watching and not trying to make a real statement here. I just found this interesting since their stats aren't too far apart. Can anyone who actually follows the league go deeper here?
Brinson is not nearly as flashy. Not on the same level skating wise. Has a heck of a point shot though and IMO a much better defender. Pretty solid vision too and his hands aren't bad.
This is so very true! Unless you're going to an Ivy League school, I would suspect that your degree from your NCAA school is not any more amazing than your degree would be from McGill, UBC or U of T.
These criticisms are laughable. He leaves the zone early? Haven't noticed him doing it anymore than any other offensive dman on the team. It's almost like it is the system they run. He will adapt to the system of his next team. Getting pushed around by bigger players...I laugh my ass off at this. They can't catch him. He holds his own quite well now days. 2 years ago when he started out this was an issue not so much anymore. But what the hell do I know I've only watched him play over 50 times.
Birko19
Registered User
Quite a bit, but that's my point though, you're more likely to get a big fish out of the USHL than out of the AJHL because it's a bigger platform and tougher competition.
These criticisms are laughable. He leaves the zone early? Haven't noticed him doing it anymore than any other offensive dman on the team. It's almost like it is the system they run. He will adapt to the system of his next team. Getting pushed around by bigger players...I laugh my ass off at this. They can't catch him. He holds his own quite well now days. 2 years ago when he started out this was an issue not so much anymore. But what the hell do I know I've only watched him play over 50 times.
He's far from perfect. If he has absolutely no weaknesses he's the best defencemen in the history of the game. Far from it. Extremely far from it. But like I said he is gonna have a rude awakening when he can't pull off half the stuff he does in the AJHL. Fabbro had issues adapting and this kid will too. He's a great skater but there is so much more to being a defencemen at those levels. No more fire wagon hockey after Brooks. I know it gets people razed up when someone points out weaknesses in their favourite players games but they all have them. Those are the ones I've noticed among others. Sorry if that is upsetting.
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tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I have no dog in this fight, my team isn't likely to draft him anyway. I just find the double standard funny. If someone is pulling off moves they won't have the time and space for in the WHL nobody even questions their production because it's one of the CHL leagues. Fans are allowed to be mesmerized by dangling and skill there. Same thing with Euros nobody has any idea what league they actually play in. They hear "play against men" when it's really 3 minutes a game or they really just bounce around all the junior leagues but that's ok. Here Makar plays in the AJHL and that's all you hear regardless of the fact he's not even playing in that league right now but at a higher level of competition. It's like one meme gets created for every prospect and is repeated endlessly regardless of if its close to the truth or not. It's all you see on Twitter and in articles and people repeating it because it's the one thing they heard about a prospect but nobody actually wants to bother to do any critical or independent thinking. At this point I think everyone gets Makar played in the AJHL and it's a legitimate thing to consider but ok now what, where does the conversation go?
That's not true at all. Guys that pull off moves in the WHL get questioned all the time because it's not the OHL or a men's league. The double standard you are referring to doesn't exist. Heck Patrick's skills have been questioned since day one because he plays in the WHL. I'm not just shooting from the hip here I've watched the kid play and the competition should absolutely 100% be a factor in how you evaluated his talent. Bring a guy like Brannstrom over here whose also one heck of a skater, offensively inclined as a defencemen and damn near a full year younger than Makar and stick him on Brooks and I'm pretty confident he would do just as good if not better. Throw Valimaki on that team and he'd rip that league a new hole. I just posted what I thought of the kid's weaknesses but apparently he has no weaknesses in his game. Everything he does bad defensively is because of his team and everything else is just non existent. I tried to take the conversation elsewhere but his fans are so enamored with him they won't hear any other criticism. The kid has a tonne of holes in his game, especially defensively, that will not translate well to the next level unless he really changes his game. Which is possible of course but I don't think it will be an automatic adaptation. Fabbro had some issues and Makar will too. Junior A fire wagon hockey doesn't work in the NCAA. Add onto the fact that he is going to a weak program on top of that, which apparently was the only program in the NCAA to make him an offer.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
People can hardly bring up that Yamamoto or DeBrincat won't be able to do what they do at the next level because "it's a different league now" and "look at Gaudreau!". Liljegren has the mono excuse for everything. It's the narratives, it's just extremely tired.
Watch Makar's tape. He flat out doesn't play anything resembling the NHL game. So he'll have to adapt, and it's okay to believe that he'll have some trouble with that adaptation. We're talking about a top 10 pick here, someone most franchises will be swinging for the fences on. They want that home run player. They want the next Karlsson ( as dumb as invoking his name is ).
I don't really see it. I see a plus plus skater that is allowed to do whatever he wants by his coaches in a league that isn't equipped to handle that kind of skater. The team that picks him is going to get a relatively quick affirmation or rebuffing of their faith in him once he goes to UMass.
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