CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[TheLegend]

As in that type of confidentiality doesn’t exist? Or that type of confidentiality can’t be waived?

In either case, I think my point is that he wouldn’t if he had the option.

I have to point back when Jerry Reinsdorf’s bid to buy the Coyotes was undermined by details of his negotiations getting out.

In Smith’s case, I don’t think it’s much other than the bravado that he already knows he has all the people in power he needs to get this done.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

If I wanted to add a 9th team to the Metro I would add Indianapolis. The West currently has three Midwestern teams to the East's two. Indianapolis would balance things out.

This isnt the first time you've floated adding this small midwestern city with little to no interest in big time professional hockey. Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

 

[JimAnchower]

You mean that the Phoenix area already has 2 major league arenas and this would mean adding a 3rd whereas Utah is looking at renovating and expanding its one and only major league arena?

I'd say the Huntsman Center is a major arena. Capacity over 15k and can easily host concerts.

 

[GKJ]

You mean that the Phoenix area already has 2 major league arenas and this would mean adding a 3rd whereas Utah is looking at renovating and expanding its one and only major league arena?

Add to that the public in the Valley, outside of a few diehards (we all remember the folks that came to the Glendale Council Meetings) have repeatedly rejected the Coyotes. In the meantime we know the Utah loves the Jazz so even if the NHL is a bust in Utah the arena and district still has the NBA to carry it, while there is nothing to carry this project.

There’s also the fact that it seems everyone at the city and state level in Utah seem to love Ryan Smith, while everyone in Arizona seem to hate Meruelo’s guts.

Meruelo is out saying how he needs support from the local governments, Smith has already been getting it.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah, it's one thing for a popular owner to get public funding support. It's another thing for an owner that politicians probably don't want to get photographed next to.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

This isnt the first time you've floated adding this small midwestern city with little to no interest in big time professional hockey. Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

Indy is a top 25 TV market. If need be they can build a brand new NHL-ready arena.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Indy is a top 25 TV market. If need be they can build a brand new NHL-ready arena.

Of course "top 25" means they're 25th.

List of television stations in North America by media market - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

TV markets above Indy without an NHL team includes:

Houston
Atlanta
Phoenix
(which have all been discussed)

but beyond that:

Orlando
Cleveland
Sacramento
Charlotte
Portland

And look, you can argue that most of those markets are frankly too close to existing franchises in Tampa, Columbus, San Jose and Carolina. But the same is true of Indy! It's pretty close to both Chicago and Columbus.

As I've said before - if SLC can get a team I wouldn't rule out anyone. But Indy would require a deep-pocketed owner with good ties to the league. - and absolutely nobody comes to mind who would be that owner.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Of course "top 25" means they're 25th.

List of television stations in North America by media market - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

TV markets above Indy without an NHL team includes:

Houston
Atlanta
Phoenix
(which have all been discussed)

but beyond that:

Orlando
Cleveland
Sacramento
Charlotte
Portland

And look, you can argue that most of those markets are frankly too close to existing franchises in Tampa, Columbus, San Jose and Carolina. But the same is true of Indy! It's pretty close to both Chicago and Columbus.

As I've said before - if SLC can get a team I wouldn't rule out anyone. But Indy would require a deep-pocketed owner with good ties to the league. - and absolutely nobody comes to mind who would be that owner.

THE other issue is what the Fuel are encountering currently.... nevermind the Pacers/Fever impact that Clark is bringing to Gainbridge Fieldhouse

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Indy is a top 25 TV market. If need be they can build a brand new NHL-ready arena.

Oh really? They're just gonna whip up a new arena for a hockey team? Because they have an NBA team and that arena is basketball specific

 

[KevFu]

DMA's are stupid. That's just who's anchoring your 6 pm news. That's not size of a fan/customer base.


The Indianapolis fan/customer base is limited because the radius around Indy starts overlapping with the radii of other markets real quick.

So the "secondary support" isn't going to be as big.

Sorry to derail.

 

[Llama19]

Comparing Coyotes Owner Alex Meruelo to NHL Utah Owner Ryan Smith

Source:thehockeywriters.com/comparing-alex-meruelo-ryan-smith/

 

[GKJ]

We should have a thread for literally every market in North America, but the reason we don’t is because the smoke comes from potential owners.

But we could do it. I would talk about potential teams in places like Cheyanne, Wyoming.

 

[Headshot77]

What's the smallest North American city that has a major (>15k) seat arena? The Sask Tel Centre in Saskatoon? We should put an NHL franchise there just for fun.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

DMA's are stupid. That's just who's anchoring your 6 pm news. That's not size of a fan/customer base.


The Indianapolis fan/customer base is limited because the radius around Indy starts overlapping with the radii of other markets real quick.

View attachment 867266



So the "secondary support" isn't going to be as big.

Sorry to derail.

What are these rings? Why would someone 30-40 miles outside of Indy be a Chicago or Columbus fan?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I would talk about potential teams in places like Cheyanne, Wyoming.

Bring back the Cheyanne Stampede!!

 

[Montrealer]

DMA's are stupid. That's just who's anchoring your 6 pm news. That's not size of a fan/customer base.


The Indianapolis fan/customer base is limited because the radius around Indy starts overlapping with the radii of other markets real quick.

View attachment 867266



So the "secondary support" isn't going to be as big.

Sorry to derail.

I'm definitely not putting Indianapolis on the list of likely destinations for an eventual NHL team, but those are some pretty fat radii. Here's the same map with 100km radii and all of a sudden it looks like we're filling a gap instead of overlapping:

 

[dj4aces]

I'm definitely not putting Indianapolis on the list of likely destinations for an eventual NHL team, but those are some pretty fat radii. Here's the same map with 100km radii and all of a sudden it looks like we're filling a gap instead of overlapping:

I can't speak for Kev or what the thought was behind the wide radii, but it may be more of an indicator of secondary market fans? Fans who don't live within the 50mi radius from a team's city limits (a team's market area), but could be a fan of either. To use an example on the map, Cleveland. That's a city that falls within both Detroit's and Columbus' secondary area, and a hockey fan there is just as likely to drive the ~140 miles to Nationwide as it would be to drive the ~170 miles to Little Caesars.

I could, and very likely am, way off base as to what was intended... but that's really the only thing I can come up with when I thought about it.

 

[Montrealer]

I can't speak for Kev or what the thought was behind the wide radii, but it may be more of an indicator of secondary market fans? Fans who don't live within the 50mi radius from a team's city limits (a team's market area), but could be a fan of either. To use an example on the map, Cleveland. That's a city that falls within both Detroit's and Columbus' secondary area, and a hockey fan there is just as likely to drive the ~140 miles to Nationwide as it would be to drive the ~170 miles to Little Caesars.

I could, and very likely am, way off base as to what was intended... but that's really the only thing I can come up with when I thought about it.

For sure, it's just one of those things that is difficult to account for because it involves a lot of extrapolation and assumptions. Using the radius Kev used (150mi I believe) using Ottawa and Montreal means a ton of overlap, for instance.

 

[Yukon Joe]

For sure, it's just one of those things that is difficult to account for because it involves a lot of extrapolation and assumptions. Using the radius Kev used (150mi I believe) using Ottawa and Montreal means a ton of overlap, for instance.

So I was the one who first brought up indy's proximity to other markets.

The guy pushing Indy's only argument was that Indy is a "top 25 TV market". So I mentioned 8 different markets that were bigger than Indianapolis and don't have an NHL team. 4 of them are comparatively close to existing NHL markets - but so is Indy.

Indianapolis isn't impossible to imagine as an NHL market - but there's a reason why it's not really discussed much either.

 

[Stumbledore]

This isnt the first time you've floated adding this small midwestern city with little to no interest in big time professional hockey. Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

Because beating a live one gets you arrested on animal cruelty charges. Or maybe elected governor of South Dakota. These days, it's hard to predict.

 

[dj4aces]

Because beating a live one gets you arrested on animal cruelty charges. Or maybe elected governor of South Dakota. These days, it's hard to predict.

Beating a dead one could be desecration of a corpse, depending on how the law is written in that jurisdiction? But I'm not a legal scholar, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express, so...

 

[Stumbledore]

Beating a dead one could be desecration of a corpse, depending on how the law is written in that jurisdiction? But I'm not a legal scholar, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express, so...

I'm not a scholar but I was a practising lawyer for over 40 years and I retired with my sense of humour intact...

 

[dj4aces]

I'm not a scholar but I was a practising lawyer for over 40 years and I retired with my sense of humour intact...

I suppose my completely amused tone didn't translate to text very well. Maybe next time.

 

[Stumbledore]

I suppose my completely amused tone didn't translate to text very well. Maybe next time.

No, I got the Holiday Inn reference.

 

[KevFu]

I'm definitely not putting Indianapolis on the list of likely destinations for an eventual NHL team, but those are some pretty fat radii. Here's the same map with 100km radii and all of a sudden it looks like we're filling a gap instead of overlapping:

I can't speak for Kev or what the thought was behind the wide radii, but it may be more of an indicator of secondary market fans?

DING! If you look in the "pockets" created by using @Montrealer 's map -- Which, props on using a better tool that I did. The color coding?! Chef's kiss! -- the cities not in a circle:

Champaign, Bloomington/Normal IL, Peoria, Fort Wayne, West Lafayette, Cincinnati, Louisville, Evansville, borderline Dayton, South Bend, etc... The hockey fans living there... whom do you think they're rooting for currently? How likely are they to switch to Indy?

Inside Indiana south of West Lafayette? Sure. Like all WL, Muncie, Bloomington IN, Evansville, absolutely. Gary & South Bend are probably sticking with Chicago.

I lived in Dayton, we got the Jackets and Cavs on TV, not the Pacers. It's gonna depend on where they draw the TV map on in Kentucky for who gets Louisville.

For sure, it's just one of those things that is difficult to account for because it involves a lot of extrapolation and assumptions. Using the radius Kev used (150mi I believe) using Ottawa and Montreal means a ton of overlap, for instance.

Right, but I think that explains a lot when you look at say, who's rich combined with who was there first. Or look at the difference in finances between Ottawa and Edmonton and Calgary.

Ottawa's the biggest of the three and the poorest of the three. EDM/CAL share overlap, Ottawa itself is inside Montreal's 150 mile radius.

It takes generations for teams to put down roots. If you "grew up" an Ottawa Senators fan, you're probably not over 40. Ottawa's "favorite NHL team by age" demographics are gonna be a lot of Habs fans 40+