CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[TheLegend]

He's been their lead attorney for a long time on all matters. In fact he is the reason I know the phrase "full on haboob." That doesn't make him a zoning attorney though.

Nicholas J. Wood, P.L.L.C. | Snell & Wilmer

Snell & Wilmer is one of the largest law firms in the western United States.

www.swlaw.com

Nick Wood's practice is concentrated in zoning and land use planning, real estate entitlements and tax structured real estate development.

 

[Ernie]

He had to be 50% built on the arena to get a sniff. 6 months of no shovels is going to set that back big time. I can't imagine they call a special session to get him a special use permit. Plus you know they will open it to the public for any opposition stance.

Beyond that it's clear Phoenix is opposed to this, and they hold all the cards. The only chance of this moving forward is to do it in a city that is amenable. They're kinda running out of cities though. Scottsdale, Glendale, Tempe, Phoenix are all out.

 

[sneakytitz]

Purely looking at this from a theoretical POV.

From what I could gather the Reno project is a completely different entity. It has it’s own funding mechanisms in place.

But… that’s not to say things have changed since it was announced.

Still would have to ask yourself why would Alex Meruelo go though a five year facade, spending tens of millions in the process to get a hold of an AHL team??

What has he spent since the sale?

 

[LPHabsFan]

What has he spent since the sale?

Probably a similar amount to what he spent prior to the sale....a whole lotta nothin.

 

[TheLegend]

What has he spent since the sale?

Irrelevant question.

It’s what he’s spent to date.

Probably a similar amount to what he spent prior to the sale....a whole lotta nothin.

I wouldn’t consider absorbing tens of millions in annual losses, nor all the money poured into ASU’s arena “nothing”.

 

[TheLegend]

Just read a tweet from Tony Cani and he says the zoning issue WAS included in the package COP submitted to the AZLD for the auction.

So Meruelo knew well ahead of time about zoning being a problem and can’t really complain the special use permit was something cooked up at the last minute.

What a cluster…..

(Edit). The packet COP sent to the AZLD is still available but here is the section regarding zoning. It’s quite specific and cannot be misinterpreted….

 

[Final Baton]

Good digging, The Legend.

Wow! What a monumental blunder by Meruelo and his team. Just unreal...

If I was a Coyotes fan I'd want Meruelo to go away as soon as possible...

 

[Voight]

Sorry….. have to chuckle at this since Craig’s been frequently blistered on here for not knowing what he’s talking about.

But his podcast today was very informative.

I think the criticism had more to do with him being perceived as a mouthpiece for Mereulo/the organization.

 

[Ernie]

I think the criticism had more to do with him being perceived as a mouthpiece for Mereulo/the organization.

Yep his lack of objectivity was the issue. Wouldn't report anything negative about Meruelo despite there clearly being a lot there. It was left up to non-local writers to report these stories. In the end he did the fans a huge disservice.

 

[JimAnchower]

Just read a tweet from Tony Cani and he says the zoning issue WAS included in the package COP submitted to the AZLD for the auction.

So Meruelo knew well ahead of time about zoning being a problem and can’t really complain the special use permit was something cooked up at the last minute.

What a cluster…..

When they said they were evaluating all legal options, was suing themselves one of them?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Yep his lack of objectivity was the issue. Wouldn't report anything negative about Meruelo despite there clearly being a lot there. It was left up to non-local writers to report these stories. In the end he did the fans a huge disservice.

And these non-locals got blasted by Coyotes fans for telling the truth.

 

[aqib]

Nicholas J. Wood, P.L.L.C. | Snell & Wilmer

Snell & Wilmer is one of the largest law firms in the western United States.

www.swlaw.com

Ah I stand corrected. I just remember him representing them in all other matters, I didn't realize he specialized in zoning.

 

[TheLegend]

Yep his lack of objectivity was the issue. Wouldn't report anything negative about Meruelo despite there clearly being a lot there. It was left up to non-local writers to report these stories. In the end he did the fans a huge disservice.

And these non-locals got blasted by Coyotes fans for telling the truth.

As Craig would probably tell you he's been more involved with the hockey side of the team than the business side.

There have been numerous times when the "non-local writers" got things wrong. Yet I've never seen anyone here say that.

There have been times when he's confirmed those "non-local writers were right. Yet I've never seen anyone here acknowledge that either.

 

[TheLegend]

When they said they were evaluating all legal options, was suing themselves one of them?

I'm curious myself as to who wrote that statement. Alex Sr., or Alex Jr.?? Can't see anyone who would be left in the communications department.

 

[TheLegend]

Ah I stand corrected. I just remember him representing them in all other matters, I didn't realize he specialized in zoning.

Looking at this from a layman's POV.... he could have been right about where a rezoning wasn't needed because COP was just asking that a Special Use Permit be obtained for the arena. It's a very subtle difference but when you look at someone like Gary Bettman say "we aren't considering expansion,,,,,, at this time", technically speaking he isn't wrong, but it doesn't mean there isn't conversations going on about it.

But someone I know who spent roughly a decade in the land use department for COP told me after looking at the zoning guide COP provided in their packet for the auction, he thinks there's another problem than just the arena. It's the housing density definition. The standard listed allows for less housing units than what Meruelo is supposedly looking at.

 

[aqib]

Looking at this from a layman's POV.... he could have been right about where a rezoning wasn't needed because COP was just asking that a Special Use Permit be obtained for the arena. It's a very subtle difference but when you look at someone like Gary Bettman say "we aren't considering expansion,,,,,, at this time", technically speaking he isn't wrong, but it doesn't mean there isn't conversations going on about it.

But someone I know who spent roughly a decade in the land use department for COP told me after looking at the zoning guide COP provided in their packet for the auction, he thinks there's another problem than just the arena. It's the housing density definition. The standard listed allows for less housing units than what Meruelo is supposedly looking at.

Yeah Bettman flat out lies. He said in 2010-11 that the league doesn't have a list of cities lined up but we know that Winnipeg and 4 other cities gave presentations to the NHL in 2007. That was 2 years before the Coyotes bankruptcy so clearly they are always lining cities up.

Regarding the zoning and the land we're all speculating, but I think there is something behind the scenes going on to kill Mereulo's chances. If there were other bidders would they all have been expected to get their permits in order first? My understanding was it was just a register and bid scenario. Wouldn't the sale have been cancelled if he won and didn't build? So they could have let it proceed and if he didn't get approval it would have been voided anyway.

 

[JimAnchower]

I'm curious myself as to who wrote that statement. Alex Sr., or Alex Jr.?? Can't see anyone who would be left in the communications department.

Do they still have legal representation for this project, including Nick Wood? It's generally not a good idea to issue legal threats against a government entity like the ASLD. Things could be smoothed over, but it's still not a good idea, especially when it looks like you're the one that screwed up. So if it's just the two Alex's left to shoot from the hip and issue press releases without a comm. department nor a lawyer to calm things down, it's doesn't bode well for the project.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah Bettman flat out lies. He said in 2010-11 that the league doesn't have a list of cities lined up but we know that Winnipeg and 4 other cities gave presentations to the NHL in 2007. That was 2 years before the Coyotes bankruptcy so clearly they are always lining cities up.

To be fair, just because they put out feelers and a few groups made pitches, that doesn't mean that the NHL was all that particularly impressed by them. If they were, I think they would've made a move for expansion a long time ago. By comparison's sake, TNSE's payment for the Thrashers was an absolute pittance compared to the fees we're seeing now.

Now that they've had at least three parties fork over huge "expansion" fees (in quotes for Utah's payment), the NHL is now much more in the business of trying to cultivate potential expansion candidates while also big upping their brand and make sure that the entry fee is as high as possible. Part of that would invariably involve pumping some market's tires even if they're long shots, like Cincinnati and especially Omaha.

But even if the NHL wasn't interested in expansion, it's never a good idea to outright shut the door on potential feelers. You never know when someone might make a grand slam pitch out of the blue or you might need to do a giddy-up emergency relocation.

 

[Llama19]

Are private companies getting sweetheart deals on Arizona trust land? 80% of auctions won by a single bidder

To quote:

"Arizona's State Land Department has come into the spotlight after officials canceled a planned auction for about 100 acres of prime real estate in north Phoenix that the Arizona Coyotes had wanted for a new arena.

The State Land Department's decision to first require a special use permit incensed the Coyotes, with the team saying it would explore legal options to counter the "shortsighted decision." But if the June 27 auction for the property at Loop 101 and Scottsdale Road had gone forward as planned — and if history is any indicator — team owner Alex Meruelo likely would have been the only bidder.

Since January 1987, 80% of the State Land Department’s auctions have attracted only one bidder. That’s more than 600 auctions over nearly 40 years where the buyer won with their opening bid.

“That’s a hot piece of property, and the Land Department expects there to be more than one bidder,” said Grady Gammage Jr., a Phoenix real estate attorney, in an interview prior to the cancelation. Gammage has represented more transactions with the State Land Department than any other lawyer in Arizona. “But there’s also a dynamic where a potential buyer wouldn’t want to look like a spoiler to all the hockey fans."

State Land Department auctions were not supposed to work like this.

More than 100 years ago, the state’s founders envisioned public auctions as the best way to protect the State Land Department from getting swindled by unscrupulous real estate investors and corrupt state officials.

The best possible scenario, Gammage believes, would move away from auctions. Instead, he suggests hiring sophisticated real estate professionals to run the State Land Department like a private trust and fund the department with a portion of the revenues from state land sales."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2024/06/24/most-arizona-trust-land-auctions-since-1987-attracted-only-1-bidder/73840420007/

 

[LPHabsFan]

Irrelevant question.

It’s what he’s spent to date.


I wouldn’t consider absorbing tens of millions in annual losses, nor all the money poured into ASU’s arena “nothing”.

It's much easier to absorb hundreds of millions (fixed it for you) of dollars in losses when it's not your money to begin with.

 

[TheLegend]

It's much easier to absorb hundreds of millions (fixed it for you) of dollars in losses when it's not your money to begin with.

If you mean he’s playing the franchise value escalation game then you’re not wrong.

But he hasn’t been taking any more from the league than the max revenue share he gets (plus hotel bills) if you’re implying the other teams are paying. And he’s lost much more than that.

 

[LPHabsFan]

If you mean he’s playing the franchise value escalation game then you’re not wrong.

But he hasn’t been taking any more from the league than the max revenue share he gets (plus hotel bills) if you’re implying the other teams are paying. And he’s lost much more than that.

No. The implication I've been making for years is that everything has been on the NHL's dime via LOC or some other similar mechanism.

This also would fit with the recent comments by Morgan about him walking away with way less than the reported 1 billion.

 

[aqib]

To be fair, just because they put out feelers and a few groups made pitches, that doesn't mean that the NHL was all that particularly impressed by them. If they were, I think they would've made a move for expansion a long time ago. By comparison's sake, TNSE's payment for the Thrashers was an absolute pittance compared to the fees we're seeing now.

Now that they've had at least three parties fork over huge "expansion" fees (in quotes for Utah's payment), the NHL is now much more in the business of trying to cultivate potential expansion candidates while also big upping their brand and make sure that the entry fee is as high as possible. Part of that would invariably involve pumping some market's tires even if they're long shots, like Cincinnati and especially Omaha.

But even if the NHL wasn't interested in expansion, it's never a good idea to outright shut the door on potential feelers. You never know when someone might make a grand slam pitch out of the blue or you might need to do a giddy-up emergency relocation.

The league invited them to make a pitch. My point is they have a list regardless of his denials.

 

[TheLegend]

No. The implication I've been making for years is that everything has been on the NHL's dime via LOC or some other similar mechanism.

This also would fit with the recent comments by Morgan about him walking away with way less than the reported 1 billion.

An LOC doesn’t mean it’s taking from the league unless the league has had to make the payments on it and at this point we don’t (and probably won’t ever) know.

Hell after five years we don’t even know how Meruelo actually acquired the franchise. Speculation is he assumed the LOC off IceArizona but that’s it.

 

[OG6ix]

I do believe that AZ will get a chance to get a team down the road; However, it looks like it's game over for the Yotes franchise all together now.

This thread needs to be pinned forever. It's the most legendary thread in all of sports!