GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor
- Thread starter Fenway
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More bad news for Arizona/Phoenix hockey fans. Even if
you say "This was predictable", it's still bad news for local hockey fans.
you say "This was predictable", it's still bad news for local hockey fans.
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
- 9,084
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TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
Yes and no.
Yes he should have covered more bases than he did.
No… this was City of Phoenix wanting the permit. They already had put out their guidelines for the sale months earlier, knowing full well Meruelo’s goal was to build an arena only now they decide “um…. We’re going to also need a special permit now.”
There’s obviously been things going on that we aren’t privy to for this to come up at the last minute.
ponder719
The same New Era as before
If I had the money, I know I would, because I know a) what I don't know, and b) that pissing off all the people who make the decisions is a stupid goddamn idea.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
Chicken/egg conundrum.
Meruelo may have planned on buying the land an expecting to work on the arena zoning/permit process afterwards and Phoenix is saying “We want this settled before you buy it.”
hangman005
It's my first day.
To me, it's not just the coyotes//Murello (though they are an easy punching bag) but does anyone in Arizona have any idea what the f*** their doing.
takimaki
Registered User
Edenjung
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2018
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Someone on reddit explained what is needed to get a permit:
Sounds like this takes a long ass time and costs a lot.
And with the public hearings of residents that are affected (Somebody say Scottsdale?), I think this project is dead in the water. No way this will work out.
Sounds like this takes a long ass time and costs a lot.
And with the public hearings of residents that are affected (Somebody say Scottsdale?), I think this project is dead in the water. No way this will work out.
JimAnchower
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2012
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I'd say for the "no" part that it is not on Phoenix to assume, even if it obvious, what AM wanted to do with the land. He needed to reach out to the city and get all those ducks in a row. If they don't have the zoning attorney tells me they didn't do much of anything to reach out to Phoenix than very basic talks.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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With the Phoenix person saying the Meurelo group didn’t have a zoning lawyer indicates they had asked for that previously and it never happened. Seems like zoning was discussed and the city insisted Meurelo gets the proper lawyers involved but he refused expecting the city to give in. The city sure sounded pissed off. Sounds like the city has had enough of this Meurelo nhl hockey rink development.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
They had a zoning attorney.
Arizona Coyotes 'fully committed' to winning June state land auction, building new arena
The president of the Arizona Coyotes says the team’s owner is “fully committed to being the winning bidder” for a roughly 100-acre rectangle in north Phoenix
www.azcentral.com
Nick Wood is considered one of the best in his area of expertise in Arizona.
Whether the councilman actually knew this or not is unknown.
sneakytitz
Registered User
Just going to call it right now. Alex won't be bringing back the Coyotes and the Roadrunners will be leaving for Reno for the 2026-27 season. GSR's arena won't just be University of Nevada basketball and Alex is going to continue to print money at that place once he has another 800 room tower and a hockey team to play for his guests/locals.
Clearly Mr. Wood was wrong, since the land does indeed require a different permit.They had a zoning attorney.
Arizona Coyotes 'fully committed' to winning June state land auction, building new arena
The president of the Arizona Coyotes says the team’s owner is “fully committed to being the winning bidder” for a roughly 100-acre rectangle in north Phoenix
Nick Wood is considered one of the best in his area of expertise in Arizona.
Whether the councilman actually knew this or not is unknown.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 22,730
- 14,564
If Meurelo did have a zoning attorney then why didn’t he apply for the zoning that was necessary? Sure sounds like the lawyer wasn’t doing his job.They had a zoning attorney.
Arizona Coyotes 'fully committed' to winning June state land auction, building new arena
The president of the Arizona Coyotes says the team’s owner is “fully committed to being the winning bidder” for a roughly 100-acre rectangle in north Phoenix
Nick Wood is considered one of the best in his area of expertise in Arizona.
Whether the councilman actually knew this or not is unknown.
Last edited:
Oh....for sure. The Roadrunners will be gone out of Tucson. Based on the layoffs that have occurred, I would assume that the AHL Board of Governors would probably take up a vote as soon as Meruelo gives up, and sells them to Smith.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
Or is he?
Note this is a special use permit we’re talking about. Not a full rezoning of the land itself.
That’s the big question.
From what I can gather here Meruelo had an understanding he needed to buy the land first, and then get the SUP. City is now saying he needs to have the permit before he can buy the land.
Catch-22 situation.
Which is why I think something is going on here that we aren’t aware of.
City has a contractual obligation to protect its downtown arena (Footprint) which is why they can’t approve of a theme park district. But is there something else?
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
Think here for a moment…..
He had two full front office staffs essentially running a single AHL franchise.
You honestly expect Meruelo was going to keep everyone on?
sneakytitz
Registered User
They're (staff/franchise/hopes) gone. I'm sorry; it is time to face facts.
This new GSR expansion is projected to cost exactly what AM got for the Coyotes: $1 billion. His (publicly available to see) revenue from GSR is already higher than every NHL team not named the Kings, Maple Leafs, or Oilers. And then, he's going to add an arena (which would be the biggest and newest in town), 800 more rooms, and 300 residential units to the complex?
This may have been by design, or perhaps he just lucked into it through ineptitude, but AM is, as we say in the South, "pissing in tall cotton" right now. His last play is just to maintain an illusion of the Roadrunners sticking around until the lease expires at the end of 2025-26. But if he screws it up, meh, no biggie.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
Purely looking at this from a theoretical POV.
From what I could gather the Reno project is a completely different entity. It has it’s own funding mechanisms in place.
But… that’s not to say things have changed since it was announced.
Still would have to ask yourself why would Alex Meruelo go though a five year facade, spending tens of millions in the process to get a hold of an AHL team??
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Now that this whole shebang had me looking at Arizona tax structure, my two cents.
When a land transaction like this happens, and given property tax revenues are an issue, it’s in the interests of Phoenix to maximize the property tax haul for that plot of land, especially since they’ll have to connect some utilities to it. That’s SOP in most other western cities.
But yes, there’s also sales tax revenue. This may or may not divert revenue from Footprint, but it’s probably the way to bet. Yeah, it diverts from Glendale and Tempe, probably.
And in every city, downtown has an outsized interest in maximizing diversion of revenue streams towards them.
Thing is, it’s my understanding that one of the permit requirements is that Meruelo proves he can actually afford to develop this land. Let’s just say that I’m not sure he got all of the billion, much less up front, from the sale.
Now, morally, if you want to complain about the city wanting to maximize tax revenue via private action, yeah, I’m seeing that as a problem. It’d be more interesting if he promised low income housing on the plot. (If they say “affordable housing,” interest groups are already trained to call bull caca on that one)
Legally, Meruelo will lose the lawsuit. The city is actually getting the I’s dotted and t’s crossed here. Or, at least, they can point to a guy with a history of not getting those things done, and already being on a short leash because of such behavior.
When a land transaction like this happens, and given property tax revenues are an issue, it’s in the interests of Phoenix to maximize the property tax haul for that plot of land, especially since they’ll have to connect some utilities to it. That’s SOP in most other western cities.
But yes, there’s also sales tax revenue. This may or may not divert revenue from Footprint, but it’s probably the way to bet. Yeah, it diverts from Glendale and Tempe, probably.
And in every city, downtown has an outsized interest in maximizing diversion of revenue streams towards them.
Thing is, it’s my understanding that one of the permit requirements is that Meruelo proves he can actually afford to develop this land. Let’s just say that I’m not sure he got all of the billion, much less up front, from the sale.
Now, morally, if you want to complain about the city wanting to maximize tax revenue via private action, yeah, I’m seeing that as a problem. It’d be more interesting if he promised low income housing on the plot. (If they say “affordable housing,” interest groups are already trained to call bull caca on that one)
Legally, Meruelo will lose the lawsuit. The city is actually getting the I’s dotted and t’s crossed here. Or, at least, they can point to a guy with a history of not getting those things done, and already being on a short leash because of such behavior.
He's been their lead attorney for a long time on all matters. In fact he is the reason I know the phrase "full on haboob." That doesn't make him a zoning attorney though.They had a zoning attorney.
Arizona Coyotes 'fully committed' to winning June state land auction, building new arena
The president of the Arizona Coyotes says the team’s owner is “fully committed to being the winning bidder” for a roughly 100-acre rectangle in north Phoenix
Nick Wood is considered one of the best in his area of expertise in Arizona.
Whether the councilman actually knew this or not is unknown.
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