CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[ponder719]

From a legal standpoint, the records and franchise “history” shouldn’t matter. The only legally enforced issue I can think of is the Coyotes trademarks. Will those be owned by AM or the NHL? According to reports the NHL would be officially buying the franchise from AM and selling a new franchise to Smith. If that’s the case I suspect the NHL will be taking ownership of the Coyotes trademarks from AM. Of course if the new non-AM future owner wanted a different team name then the trademarks become a non-issue,

Basing this on no actual information, but my best guess is that the NHL's deal with Meruelo is that if he fulfills all his benchmarks and enacts his reactivation rights, he will receive the trademarks at that time as part of that, but if he fails to do so, they will remain with the league.

 

[bleedblue94]

I can't help but feel like this is why the league likes this solution better than many others: they probably think he can't.

I think the league knows they are screwed bc they enabled mullet to begin with, so how can they force a sale based on mullet now in the context of the cba? It will be interesting if the league and pa now agree to language in the new cba that actually spells out what an NHL level facility needs to be. The lack of significant definition allowed them to do halfass add ons to mullet to meet minimum/vague standards. I have to think that the pa won't allow that to remain the same and now in a way the league has a reason to address it as well based on the fact they have basically paid off AM through an overvalued sale to get control back of a team.

 

[TheLegend]

Anyone wanna shot at translating this Bettman-ese?????

 

[Mightygoose]

Anyone wanna shot at translating this Bettman-ese?????

The board of governors haven't voted and agreed on the message yet so gotta go with this

 

[mouser]

I think the league knows they are screwed bc they enabled mullet to begin with, so how can they force a sale based on mullet now in the context of the cba? It will be interesting if the league and pa now agree to language in the new cba that actually spells out what an NHL level facility needs to be. The lack of significant definition allowed them to do halfass add ons to mullet to meet minimum/vague standards. I have to think that the pa won't allow that to remain the same and now in a way the league has a reason to address it as well based on the fact they have basically paid off AM through an overvalued sale to get control back of a team.

I'm can't imagine the NHL--or any major professional league--would agree to make the size of an arena subject to collective bargaining with their player union. The leagues themselves can establish their own standards if they wish without using a CBA.

 

[tucker3434]

Anyone wanna shot at translating this Bettman-ese?????

Attorneys always have an eloquent way of saying nothing at all.

 

[bleedblue94]

What are the odds Meruelo will get the arena built and still the billion needed to buy an expansion team in the five years?

What are the odds that if he gets the arena built he then tries to go back to the NHL and renegotiate down the $1 billion since he will know at that point he is the only option for the NHL to return to the market? He will absolutely know that the lead can't make it work anywhere else and that nobody in the region is going to build another arena after his, so he has League checkmated if they actually want to return to the area.

I feel like a lot of people are dumping on him right now (rightfully so) but they're also not giving him credit for his acquisition of a distressed asset and how is playing out for him well personally with his finances, and potentially how he has wiggled himself into a position of power over the NHL with regards to the market. Everybody's assuming he can't get the building built so that those exclusive rides can transfer to anybody, what if he actually does it? I don't know if people have really considered the type of envious position that puts him in when dealing with the league for the future of the market.

It's a little scary actually.

I'm can't imagine the NHL--or any major professional league--would agree to make the size of an arena subject to collective bargaining with their player union. The leagues themselves can establish their own standards if they wish without using a CBA.

Can they? I don't know if they really can within the board of governors, but maybe they can. They've negotiated components of an arena with the PA. If the governors decide to further establish minimum standards I wonder what that mechanism looks like if it's not included in a cba. Furthermore, I really can't believe after this fiasco that the PA isn't going to push for some sort of formal definition

 

[rsteen]

I'm can't imagine the NHL--or any major professional league--would agree to make the size of an arena subject to collective bargaining with their player union. The leagues themselves can establish their own standards if they wish without using a CBA.

I believe there already is something collectively bargained about the standards of the arena/facilities. Wasn't there some dispute about inadequate towels or soap or something in Carolina?

 

[GKJ]

I'm can't imagine the NHL--or any major professional league--would agree to make the size of an arena subject to collective bargaining with their player union. The leagues themselves can establish their own standards if they wish without using a CBA.

Seems we’re about to get some case studies between this and the A’s upcoming situation

 

[Ernie]

I believe there already is something collectively bargained about the standards of the arena/facilities. Wasn't there some dispute about inadequate towels or soap or something in Carolina?

There are standards, ones that were definitely stretched at Mullett. Given how vocal Walsh was about the issue, I'd bet that the NHLPA insists on updating this language in the next CBA. I could see them pushing for an arena size of a minimum 10k, anything below that has to get NHLPA approval so that the situation doesn't drag on.

 

[oldunclehue]

Anyone wanna shot at translating this Bettman-ese?????

I'm not sure why the NHL hasn't just made an announcement either way. The sources and info coming out all say it's done and they are going to Utah...but ol Gary has to sit on the fence and say nothing.

If they are leaving, sorry to hear Legend, you have been absolutely amazing to follow along with on this journey. Knowledge, hope, understanding to clarify what the main board folk don't want to listen.

Hope you get to the next game and enjoy.....I remember crying as a kid when the Jets left the first time. Hope you get a chance if they leave at a better organization.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm not sure why the NHL hasn't just made an announcement either way. The sources and info coming out all say it's done and they are going to Utah...but ol Gary has to sit on the fence and say nothing.

If they are leaving, sorry to hear Legend, you have been absolutely amazing to follow along with on this journey. Knowledge, hope, understanding to clarify what the main board folk don't want to listen.

Hope you get to the next game and enjoy.....I remember crying as a kid when the Jets left the first time. Hope you get a chance if they leave at a better organization.

Nothing's done until the papers are signed and until they are, the league isn't going to announce anything.

An agreement in principle doesn't let them announce it.

 

[dj4aces]

Nothing's done until the papers are signed and until they are, the league isn't going to announce anything.

An agreement in principle doesn't let them announce it.

If I'm not mistaken, the BoG also has to vote on the ownership change and the move, yes?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

If I'm not mistaken, the BoG also has to vote on the ownership change and the move, yes?

Yes, but I have a hard time imagining much gubernatorial (would that be the right term in the context of the BoG?) opposition to a likely overpay for the Yotes.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, but I have a hard time imagining much gubernatorial (would that be the right term in the context of the BoG?) opposition to a likely overpay for the Yotes.

The vote seems to be a formality at this point, but it's a formality that has to be observed and the league can't announce anything until it is.

It will be taking place tomorrow.

 

[RoyalAir]

I feel like a lot of people are dumping on him right now (rightfully so) but they're also not giving him credit for his acquisition of a distressed asset and how is playing out for him well personally with his finances, and potentially how he has wiggled himself into a position of power over the NHL with regards to the market. Everybody's assuming he can't get the building built so that those exclusive rides can transfer to anybody, what if he actually does it? I don't know if people have really considered the type of envious position that puts him in when dealing with the league for the future of the market.

It's a little scary actually.

We've seen the NHL sacrifice valuable markets in order to be rid of horrible ownership in the past.

If Meruelo outfoxes the NHL and builds an arena, as an attempt to get his franchise rights back, I'd think that the NHL would likely let him sit.

 

[Llama19]

How much could a Coyotes' departure cost Arizona? Experts are divided

To quote:

"The Arizona Coyotes have been part of the statewide economy for nearly three decades, so how much of a fiscal hit will Arizona take if the team moved to Utah under a new owner?

Only time and more economic impact analyses can provide a full answer. But the question has reignited an old disagreement between two experts who published disparate economic reports on the NHL franchise's failed plan to build a $2.1 billion arena and entertainment district in Tempe.

On one side is David Wells who co-founded The Grand Canyon Institute, which concluded in its study on the Coyotes-Tempe project that it would “be a net drain, not a net gain" on city coffers.

Dennis Hoffman, the director of Arizona State University’s Seidman Research Center, found that the deal would have been an economic boon for the city in his Coyotes-commissioned analysis.

Their predictions about the team's impact on Arizona's statewide economy are just as different this time around.

Wells believes the Coyotes' departure will have "close to zero" economic effect, because of how consumers behave regarding entertainment spending.

"Most people have a limited leisure budget to start with. So, they'll just reallocate it. You might see an uptick in attendance at ASU basketball games or something like that," said Wells. He added that a "small core of people" in Arizona may now shift some of their spending to Utah to follow the Coyotes.

Hoffman said “we could be losing significant money” because of the cash Canadian retirees have invested in Arizona’s economy. Hoffman said that money could “migrate” out of the state, if snowbirds chose Arizona because of the Coyotes.

“How many Canadian winter visitors have historically chosen to locate in Arizona as opposed to Florida because they can go to NHL games?” Hoffman asked. “It's unknowable. But I think it does a disservice if we just say we'll ignore it because it's unknowable.”

Wells shrugged off that possibility the same way he did the idea of a sizable number of Arizonans shifting their entertainment spending to Utah. He said there might be a "small core" of people who came to Arizona just for the Coyotes, but not enough to be significant."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2024/04/17/how-much-could-a-coyotes-departure-cost-arizona/73343504007/

 

[dj4aces]

Yes, but I have a hard time imagining much gubernatorial (would that be the right term in the context of the BoG?) opposition to a likely overpay for the Yotes.

Oh, without a doubt. It's all a formality, but it's a step needed to make the transfer of ownership and move officially official, right? That's all I'm getting at. We all know it's going to happen, but the deal isn't done until all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed...

 

[aqib]

Glendale Reportedly To Sign Deal With Ellman For Complex

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

With unstable ownership and the Canadian media sending attack articles against the team at the trade deadline and before the first day of free agency?

Hardly.

My takeaway from that article is: In AZ, Tim Tyers reports the Coyotes were averaging 11,046 fans entering last night's game against the Wild at America West Arena. Attendance is down 12-15% from last year.

This was the Coyotes 6th season in Arizona and they had made the playoffs 4 out of the previous 5 years. They should have pulled the plug right then and let them go to Portland

 

[cbcwpg]

After ‘swiping left’ on NHL's Coyotes, Glendale leaders react to team’s reported move

After a messy split, Glendale leaders are reacting to the rumors that the Arizona Coyotes now plan to relocate to Utah at the end of the NHL season.

www.azcentral.com

 

[TheLegend]

How much could a Coyotes' departure cost Arizona? Experts are divided

To quote:

"The Arizona Coyotes have been part of the statewide economy for nearly three decades, so how much of a fiscal hit will Arizona take if the team moved to Utah under a new owner?

Only time and more economic impact analyses can provide a full answer. But the question has reignited an old disagreement between two experts who published disparate economic reports on the NHL franchise's failed plan to build a $2.1 billion arena and entertainment district in Tempe.

On one side is David Wells who co-founded The Grand Canyon Institute, which concluded in its study on the Coyotes-Tempe project that it would “be a net drain, not a net gain" on city coffers.

Dennis Hoffman, the director of Arizona State University’s Seidman Research Center, found that the deal would have been an economic boon for the city in his Coyotes-commissioned analysis.

Their predictions about the team's impact on Arizona's statewide economy are just as different this time around.

Wells believes the Coyotes' departure will have "close to zero" economic effect, because of how consumers behave regarding entertainment spending.

"Most people have a limited leisure budget to start with. So, they'll just reallocate it. You might see an uptick in attendance at ASU basketball games or something like that," said Wells. He added that a "small core of people" in Arizona may now shift some of their spending to Utah to follow the Coyotes.

Hoffman said “we could be losing significant money” because of the cash Canadian retirees have invested in Arizona’s economy. Hoffman said that money could “migrate” out of the state, if snowbirds chose Arizona because of the Coyotes.

“How many Canadian winter visitors have historically chosen to locate in Arizona as opposed to Florida because they can go to NHL games?” Hoffman asked. “It's unknowable. But I think it does a disservice if we just say we'll ignore it because it's unknowable.”

Wells shrugged off that possibility the same way he did the idea of a sizable number of Arizonans shifting their entertainment spending to Utah. He said there might be a "small core" of people who came to Arizona just for the Coyotes, but not enough to be significant."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2024/04/17/how-much-could-a-coyotes-departure-cost-arizona/73343504007/

Articles like this are pretty much useless because economists only think in one dimension.

If McDonald’s pulled everyone of their franchises out of the state you could excuse it the same way. People would just get their hamburger, fries and nuggets at a different outlet.

But then you wouldn’t have things like Ronald McDonald Charities spending millions on child health care either.

USA Hockey has rated Arizona as one of the fastest growing regions for amateur hockey for the last few years. All because of the Coyotes.

The girls program sponsored by the Coyotes (Arizona Kachinas) is one of the most successful and the loss of the quarter million dollar sponsorship they get annually will drive the costs of participation to an estimated $2000 per year for each girl.

So the economic impact is real. Just never in a way an economist would understand.

 

[Stumbledore]

My takeaway from that article is: In AZ, Tim Tyers reports the Coyotes were averaging 11,046 fans entering last night's game against the Wild at America West Arena. Attendance is down 12-15% from last year.

This was the Coyotes 6th season in Arizona and they had made the playoffs 4 out of the previous 5 years. They should have pulled the plug right then and let them go to Portland

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Articles like this are pretty much useless because economists only think in one dimension.

So the economic impact is real. Just never in a way an economist would understand.

Those of us who have hung around here for the past 20 years and have hung on your every word are dying to know: will TheLegend attend the Final Game?

 

[TheLegend]

My takeaway from that article is: In AZ, Tim Tyers reports the Coyotes were averaging 11,046 fans entering last night's game against the Wild at America West Arena. Attendance is down 12-15% from last year.

This was the Coyotes 6th season in Arizona and they had made the playoffs 4 out of the previous 5 years. They should have pulled the plug right then and let them go to Portland

Again that’s the problem with viewing things from a myopic 3000 miles away.

The Coyotes at that point in time were unloading a lot of their top players. The economics of playing at AWA (they only received ticket and merchandise sales, and a small percentage of concessions. Richard Burke estimated they could last maybe four more years there given the escalating salaries.

 

[TheLegend]

Those of us who have hung around here for the past 20 years and have hung on your every word are dying to know: will TheLegend attend the Final Game?

No… I’ll be at home. Seriously thought about it, but can’t given Mrs. Legend’s current health situation.

I’ll be watching though.

 

[Primary Assist]

No… I’ll be at home. Seriously thought about it, but can’t given Mrs. Legend’s current health situation.

I’ll be watching though.

My best wishes to Mrs. Legend