CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[KevFu]

Maybe I missed something, but what's the issue with living in Utah? I'm assuming it's mainly just the more veteran players whose families/lives are all set up in AZ and are pissed about leaving (to anywhere)...?

...or is there something about Utah in particular that is less than desirable?

I admit I know absolutely nothing about the place aside from the usual Mormon jokes.

The issue is that any players union is going to advocate for players' rights. There isn't really a CBA-agreed-upon process for stocking the new Utah franchise's roster: they're just taking the Coyotes roster. Expansion Drafts ARE agreed upon in the CBA. That's why players with NMCs have to be protected in the expansion draft.


The union is saying that all their players couldn't add Utah to their NMC lists because Utah didn't have a team when they submitted their lists.

But it's a very tiny issue because the union was the one vocally saying Mullett was unacceptable, and that issue just got solved. And because everyone who listed ARZ on their NMC list would now have an open spot because ARZ doesn't have a team. But that hasn't yet been addressed.

The Union is making a stink about something that obviously is going to be addressed, like "everyone who listed ARZ can choose to put SLC OR another NHL city in that spot."

But they're the players rights advocates, it's their job to make the stink about anything.

 

[Dolemite]

You really mean to say Steve Ellman didn’t deliver.

As much as Glendale has had their share of things that can be criticized … this wasn’t one of them.

During the next 30 years, the city expects its $180M investment to "realize a profit mostly from sales tax revenue generated from the 220-acre retail complex surrounding the arena." While "no retailers have signed on to the project yet," Ellman said that he "has had a lot of interest from national retailers" (ARIZONA REPUBLIC, 11/21).

Glendale Reportedly To Sign Deal With Ellman For Complex

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

It really doesn't matter. The franchise still rebounded into the best years they had there and failed to capitalize off that. The move to Glendale was obviously terrible, we knew it at the time, and he was there for that, but that was pre-bankruptcy. 15 years is plenty of time to straighten the ship, the time since he left is still over half the time they've been there.

With unstable ownership and the Canadian media sending attack articles against the team at the trade deadline and before the first day of free agency?

Hardly.

 

[KevFu]

The NHL assigns each team a Home Territory and a sphere of influence—generally meaning territory outside the home market where the team holds the rights to broadcast their games. I believe the NHL permits territory in those spheres of influence to be shared amongst multiple teams.

I’ve never seen a good article on whether and how the NHL addresses compensation for teams losing rights to those markets outside the home territory. For example: I have a 16-28 year old map of the Coyotes’ sphere of influence. It includes all of New Mexico and most of Nevada other than Las Vegas. I presume all of the Nevada rights were lost when the Knights entered the league or earlier, but haven’t seen a newer rights map.

The TV territory map is a weird animal, and there's not compensation when it's adjusted because the TV map is just as much about who's NOT in a spot than who is in a spot. It's really more "You're supposed to be a fan of the local team and not the second-most local team."

It's up to each cable provider in each spot on the map to decide if they're carrying the network that has the games; and individual negotiations usually leads to less carriage than the map suggests...

In baseball, the Bally's bankruptcy case has led to MLB taking over San Diego and Arizona broadcasts, and in both cases they say the games are available to a ton more people NOW than they were before. Because MLB has shifted what they care about from what Bally's cared about. Bally's needed the carriage fees to offset the cost of rights fees. MLB isn't giving the teams rights fees, they're paying production and giving the team ad sales (and steam sales), which they can do more of with wider carriage.


The league doesn't compensate teams for losing TV territory to expansion teams or relocating teams. That's what the expansion and relocation fees are for. The teams understand that the "extended market" created by dividing territory is a bonus and it can go away as franchises are added/relocate.

 

[TheLegend]

It brings back a time where Clarkanomics became a vernacular native only to these series of threads!

Crazy thing is I defended it at one time.

But I was doing that more for the sake of providing counterpoints for the discussion.

I respected her sense of being economically conservative. But after she played the race card while campaigning against Sammy Chavira (and got beat over it) it exposed a dark side of her. Had other friends who tried helping her with her campaign hear the same stuff from her directly in a meeting. It's been amplified since then on social media (still follow her on X and FB). She's become a vindictive old woman, who will come towards you with a smile but have a knife ready to plow into your back the moment she thinks you're not with her.

Biggest chuckle I get these days though is right after the Coyotes left Glendale she moved her district meetings from a library she spent 30 years getting built to one of the swankier terraces at the arena. Guess she figured if the taxpayers paid for it why not??

 

[TheLegend]

Glendale Reportedly To Sign Deal With Ellman For Complex

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

To be fair.... Ellman had to rebuild an open air mall that had been dormant for nearly two decades as part of the deal. He did do that and it's still thriving.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Interesting, did not know that about no NTC players on yotes.
@Yukon Joe comment, didnt quote for some reason, or I prolly did it wrong lol

Just to be clear - it's "no NMCs" not "no NTCs". Several players have modified no-trade lists, but no one has a no move clause.

 

[GKJ]

 

[Takuto Maruki]

As much as I dislike Bettman, I'm impressed with the league's solution here.

It's funny how the reactions for Bettman and the league in general going with the obvious solution that neuters AM's ability to raise a stink (with pretty clear guidelines in order to get back to the seat of the table that they have a somewhat firm belief he won't meet) is either being met with scorn because Bettman didn't throw the towel in at any point between Glendale and now, or because they aren't walking a team to a Canadian city that will apparently welcome another team with open arms, even though the last buyer that was interested basically f***ed off and hasn't been heard WRT the NHL.

But really, what do you expect from the peanut gallery?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah, I'm not sure either. I've been to, and stayed in, parts of Utah. It's a lovely place, and the people are great. Sure, maybe SLC doesn't have the same wild nightlife as L.A., NYC or Las Vegas. But for the veteran players with families, or ones who enjoy a quieter lifestyle, won't be disappointed with it.

So never been to SLC either - I'm sure it would be lovely.

But I think there's two things players would be upset about:

1. Just the unknown - you have no idea what you're getting into. You may have never even gone to SLC.

2. Market size. Utah is going to be a smaller market. That's going to impact how often your team is on TV, how much exposure you get, what kind of sponsorships you might get, etc.

3. And yeah, the nightlife. Utah has pretty restrictive laws on alcohol. Sales stop at 1am, there's a bunch of rules about drinking not being prepared in the view of customers I don't understand, and I think they require the sale of food together with alcohol. If you're in your early to mid 20s you may well be looking for a more exciting night life then that. I was never a pro athlete, but I recognize that bars were something important to me in my early 20s even though I could care less now.

It's funny how the reactions for Bettman and the league in general going with the obvious solution that neuters AM's ability to raise a stink (with pretty clear guidelines in order to get back to the seat of the table that they have a somewhat firm belief he won't meet) is either being met with scorn because Bettman didn't throw the towel in at any point between Glendale and now, or because they aren't walking a team to a Canadian city that will apparently welcome another team with open arms, even though the last buyer that was interested basically f***ed off and hasn't been heard WRT the NHL.

But really, what do you expect from the peanut gallery?

I haven't seen a single response from the peanut gallery criticizing that the team isn't moving to Canada...

 

[Takuto Maruki]

I haven't seen a single response from the peanut gallery criticizing that the team isn't moving to Canada...

Less here, and more so on Twitter and especially Canadian media pundits. (Looking at you Overdrive and Brain Burke on 590 yesterday)

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Literally what hockey fans in Arizona should br hoping for IMO.

I know you want a team but you don't want one owned by this guy.

If Meurelo gets a team again, then we're back on the terrible ownership carousel that has defined this entire franchise.

 

[BMN]

Less here, and more so on Twitter and especially Canadian media pundits. (Looking at you Overdrive and Brian Burke on 590 yesterday)

When Brian Burke speaks, it's not unlike when Don Cherry professes to speak for Canada. I leap from my couch to say "THIS MAN DOES NOT REPRESENT US!!!"

The problem with talk radio, etc. is that you have to generate an argument/conflict to fill the time. Saying "Salt Lake City, eh? We'll see how that works out...." doesn't exactly fill seven minutes of airtime...

 

[mouser]

I think the franchise deactivation will actually be important if/when Meruelo drops out. What happens then? If the NHL still wants to eventually return to Phoenix, will it simply be reactivated but with a different owner? Will the league and new owner still need to buy certain assets back from Meruelo? Or will the Coyotes franchise go from deactivated to folded, with a new franchise and new owner brought up in its place?

I think the fact that they want to leave the ashes of a franchise in Phoenix is a good sign for the NHL's return to the city. But I wonder if it makes that eventual return more complicated legally, should things with AM play out how we are all expecting them too.

From a legal standpoint, the records and franchise “history” shouldn’t matter. The only legally enforced issue I can think of is the Coyotes trademarks. Will those be owned by AM or the NHL? According to reports the NHL would be officially buying the franchise from AM and selling a new franchise to Smith. If that’s the case I suspect the NHL will be taking ownership of the Coyotes trademarks from AM. Of course if the new non-AM future owner wanted a different team name then the trademarks become a non-issue,

 

[mouser]

So interesting almost-a-story - it was suggested on Twitter that because it's a "transfer of hockey operations", and not the franchise moving, that any Coyotes players with a no-move would be able to block their forced move to Utah.

Except of course nobody on the Yotes has a no-move clause. A few have modified no trades, but that's it

And what would they have done? Play for an inactive franchise?

Dudes just be skating around practice rinks

I think it would be a valid legal issue if there actually was a player with a NMC.

The CBA covers what happens when a franchise folds or is otherwise unable to pay its players. The league has the option to reassign players to other teams or release the players from their contracts. The interesting wrinkles in this hypothetical situation however include:

- Can a player with a NMC be reassigned to another team without their consent? Probably not.
- The NHL would be the “owner” of the now deactivated franchise, capable of continuing to pay the players even if the team is inactive.

 

[GKJ]

I think it would be a valid legal issue if there actually was a player with a NMC.

The CBA covers what happens when a franchise folds or is otherwise unable to pay its players. The league has the option to reassign players to other teams or release the players from their contracts. The interesting wrinkles in this hypothetical situation however include:

- Can a player with a NMC be reassigned to another team without their consent? Probably not.
- The NHL would be the “owner” of the now deactivated franchise, capable of continuing to pay the players even if the team is inactive.

We probably won't get to know I guess since it's hard to see this happening again any time soon

 

[GKJ]

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www.youtube.com

 

[blues10]

From a legal standpoint, the records and franchise “history” shouldn’t matter. The only legally enforced issue I can think of is the Coyotes trademarks. Will those be owned by AM or the NHL? According to reports the NHL would be officially buying the franchise from AM and selling a new franchise to Smith. If that’s the case I suspect the NHL will be taking ownership of the Coyotes trademarks from AM. Of course if the new non-AM future owner wanted a different team name then the trademarks become a non-issue,

Wouldn’t the league still want the trademarks? I was at the HHOF this past month and they were selling gear from defunct teams. Hats, jerseys, shirts etc….

 

[GKJ]

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

Jeff Marek spends some time here, but seems most of the news here comes after is about the Road Runners. ASU wants to use the building for other things, and obviously AHL games almost always being on weekends creates problems. Tucson also does not want to lose the team. They don't seem to think ultimately it will happen, but if it does everyone will be pissed off and will probably be bad business.

Also Craig Morgan thinks there will be an affiliate agreement basically because they have to.

 

[mouser]

Wouldn’t the league still want the trademarks? I was at the HHOF this past month and they were selling gear from defunct teams. Hats, jerseys, shirts etc….

I assume the league would like to own the Coyotes trademarks. Among others, the NHL currently owns the trademarks for the Hartford Whalers and Quebec Nordiques.

I believe the Colorado Avalanche continued to own the Nordiques trademarks after their relocation, but transferred the trademarks to the NHL in 2004.

 

[Headshot77]

Maybe I missed something, but what's the issue with living in Utah? I'm assuming it's mainly just the more veteran players whose families/lives are all set up in AZ and are pissed about leaving (to anywhere)...?

...or is there something about Utah in particular that is less than desirable?

I admit I know absolutely nothing about the place aside from the usual Mormon jokes.

They have a lot of weird laws, especially around coffee and alcohol. Beautiful area though.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

BOG is not happy and think Meruelo is getting too good a deal to get out and get back in. There are benchmarks to clear but is not automatic. His role as an unofficial observer was confirmed. His return must still be approved by the BOG.

If they think he is getting too good of a deal - I agree with this - then why did they approve this deal in the first place?

 

[GKJ]

If they think he is getting too good of a deal - I agree with this - then why did they approve this deal in the first place?

They wanted a clean break from it. They didn't want to end up in court.

 

[Ernie]

You wonder how much face Bettman has lost over this whole situation with the BoG. It could get ugly if Meruelo does his Meruelo things and then tries to force his way back in. Bettman is 71 now; perhaps he doesn't plan on being around in 5 years regardless.

 

[TheLegend]

You wonder how much face Bettman has lost over this whole situation with the BoG. It could get ugly if Meruelo does his Meruelo things and then tries to force his way back in. Bettman is 71 now; perhaps he doesn't plan on being around in 5 years regardless.

None.

Well...... check that..... depends on who's looking at the face.

If anything, he's crafted a way to keep the league out of court. For that the other owners would be ecstatic.

 

[Ernie]

None.

Well...... check that..... depends on who's looking at the face.

If anything, he's crafted a way to keep the league out of court. For that the other owners would be ecstatic.

Perhaps that's better than fighting it out while they need to figure things out for next season. But if the die was cast when the Tempe vote failed (as well it should have) they had a long time to get this sorted. They may have just kicked the can down the road when it comes to the legal stuff.