CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[DryIslandBartender]

Is this permanent or temporary? So confused.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Is this permanent or temporary?

Yes.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Is this permanent or temporary? So confused.

The Coyotes themselves are done in Arizona, forever.

Arizona might get another NHL team within a decade and very likely will within two decades. The chances of a successful team run by Alex Meruelo are slim to none, and unless those running the NHL are dumber than a rubber dildo they have put safeguards in that "right to first refusal" sale clause to give them an out if Meruelo wants in again. No person or business in Arizona should ever do business with Meruelo again.

Arizona *can* work as a NHL market and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. But it has to be done properly in order to work.

 

[Brodie]

I kind of wonder if the league really feels the need to be in Phoenix in a world where they have teams in Nevada and Utah now. Like it isn't ideal to not be in the 5th largest city in the country, but being in two adjacent markets in the same region might make it less pressing than getting into Houston

 

[GKJ]

I kind of wonder if the league really feels the need to be in Phoenix in a world where they have teams in Nevada and Utah now. Like it isn't ideal to not be in the 5th largest city in the country, but being in two adjacent markets in the same region might make it less pressing than getting into Houston

This has been Bettman’s life’s work, they definitely believe in it.

As for the AHL team, who on earth is supposed to support that team? I just don’t see how that works.

 

[Whileee]

Welcome back Whileee

 

[Slashers98]

Salt Lake City is now the smallest NHL market with a population of just 220,000 people...

 

[cbcwpg]

It's probably the only way a resurrected Coyotes can be successful. Bring in someone who isn't a snake oil salesman/charlatan.

Gary Bettman has had 28 years to do exactly that, yet has been unable to. So while getting someone of credibility to own the team would be ideal, just how likely is it? The best owners are attracted to the best business opportunities, while distressed assets attract people with questionable motives.

The problem Phoenix and the NHL have in this market in a future without AM being the owner, is convincing someone else that these 28 years were just an aberration and not what the market is, and getting them to buy in.

And the problem Phoenix and the NHL have in this market with AM as the owner, is convincing the ticket buyers that he's really the right guy to own this team and he can be trusted.

But regardless of who ends up owning an expansion Coyotes, they will have a hell of a job convincing the market to give it one more go.

 

[Shwan]

I know this is not an unbiased time to ask that question, but I don't see how anyone could ever trust Alex Meruelo with a NHL team ever again, and my hypothesis is that the Coyotes fanbase has enough pride to tell that grifting scumbag to shove it.

So chalk this up as yet another argument maybe Coyotes fan can figure out now.

I may call Meruelo dumb but the man's not stupid. Go look back even just 30 days ago and see what Coyotes fans were saying about the location of the land he's trying to buy.

They'll tell you that it's a great spot for the team. Why? Because it's in a hyper affluent part of town so all the rich fans will show up and buy suites and buy out the ultra premier season tickets, while other rich people will show up on a consistent basis to fill out the lower bowl because it's something to do on a weekday night that's not old town Scottsdale.

That's not where the pain and rage is right now. Sure you have some high prestige STH sounding off but in reality when you're that affluent this kinda stuff is just small potatoes. Life goes on. The pain is being felt with the core fan base in Gilbert, Chandler, Mesa and Queen Creek.

The places this arena couldn't be possibly more far away from.

Alex knew. Alex Knows. So *if* he magically pulls this off (My personal projections had this thing falling apart around Q3 2026), then he anticipates those rich STH will come back, and those disinterested rich people will fill the stands. If only 25% of the core fanbase forgives him and comes back well he'll be ahead there, because he wrote them off after the Tempe vote failed.

Coyotes fans were okay with this 4 days ago because they thought getting relegated to second class citizens would still get them a seat at the table.

 

[Ernie]

Salt Lake City is now the smallest NHL market with a population of just 220,000 people...

Metro population is 1.25m. That's way bigger than Winnipeg.at 800k.

 

[Slashers98]

Metro population is 1.25m. That's way bigger than Winnipeg.at 800k.

It's not much bigger.

 

[Brodie]

The big issue for the NHL in several markets that are no-brainers for other sports has always been ownership. Like nobody wants an NHL team in Phoenix, nobody wanted one in Atlanta, nobody has historically wanted one in Houston. It's a serious issue for the league because even when they find one dude who does want the team either they're insufficiently resourced for the job or there's nobody waiting in the wings to keep the team.

The NHL is in a very weird place relative to the other major sports leagues where it is extremely market driven. A hockey team in some places is a bona fide civic institution with a long line of billionaires ready to plunk down cash for it. In other places, a hockey team is a loss leader designed to sell specific real estate ventures or obtain some other form of government subsidy. As long as that is the case in this league, the risk of new Coyotes situations will not abate

 

[Ernie]

It's not much bigger.

1.25m isn't much bigger than the 200k you said?

 

[madhi19]

But regardless of who ends up owning an expansion Coyotes, they will have a hell of a job convincing the market to give it one more go.

Your first step would be rebrand and start from zero. Make it damn clear that this is a new team that will do it right from day one. This is probably not happening without a brand new owner that's a serious business player. Marketing wise it would not hurt if the NHL had a new commisioner either by that point.

 

[Fatass]

I think he has close to 0 interest in owning a hockey team. The Coyotes were just a. vehicle for him to expand his real estate holdings.

Gambling license is connected to having a sports team too, isn’t?

 

[objectiveposter]

A few years ago you could have bought the coyotes for 300 mill with a sweetheart lease agreement in Glendale. 5 years from now an nhl expansion fee will be around 1.5 billion plus another billion to build an arena. Thats 300 mill compared to 2.5 billion. If you build an arena you will be competing with 2 other arenas in the market for other events to fill dates. I think finding a legit owner with deep pockets willing to invest 2.5 billion in a high interest rate environment for a team that is unprofitable is going to be more challenging than some people think.

 

[Brodie]

Why would a Yotes fan want to support the new Phoenix Roadrunners minor league version of their former team? That feels like a huge slap in the face, like at least let them affiliate with another team

 

[Tawnos]

Salt Lake City is now the smallest NHL market with a population of just 220,000 people...

Winnipeg remains the smallest market. The SLC market is not the size of the population within the city limits, which is the number you cite. The metropolitan statistical area of 1.2 million doesn't cover the full market either.

SLC as a market is 2.5-2.7 million people depending on how you look at it. It's about the same size as Nashville and larger than Vegas, Buffalo, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg.

I really wish people would read threads, so I could stop having to correct this.

 

[cutchemist42]

Used to post and lurk a lot here years ago. Have moved onto other interests mostly but wanted to come back and say I am so sorry for the Coyotes fans here. You deserved better.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Why would a Yotes fan want to support the new Phoenix Roadrunners minor league version of their former team? That feels like a huge slap in the face, like at least let them affiliate with another team

Not only is it the AHL affiliate to the team that left their city, its also still owned by the same shitbag too.

Personally, I'd prefer to go to ASU games and tell Meruelo to eat my ass.

 

[madhi19]

Winnipeg remains the smallest market. The SLC market is not the size of the population within the city limits, which is the number you cite. The metropolitan statistical area of 1.2 million doesn't cover the full market either.

SLC as a market is 2.5-2.7 million people depending on how you look at it. It's about the same size as Nashville and larger than Vegas, Buffalo, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg.

I really wish people would read threads, so I could stop having to correct this.

Market size comparison always make me laugh. We just seen the end of 16+ years saga created because most of the existing fans would understandably not drive a hour back and forth to see their team 41 nights a year. You want to talk market size you have to include driving distance in that equation. How many fans do you have less than an 30 minutes drive from the arena. That's the real numbers that matters when talking about the gate. When we talk about TV deals, and sponsors that where the total market matters the most, but even there you got to factor in general interest. You still have to be a hit at the gate to be a hit on TV and to be the hot thing for corporate dollars to flock to.

 

[Shwan]

Gambling license is connected to having a sports team too, isn’t?

I can't believe it's 2024 and people are still trotting this out

 

[TheLegend]

I am not in Arizona and I value your insight so I'd like to ask:

Based on your experience with others out there, what would you say the appetite is to ever support a AM-owned team?

I know this is not an unbiased time to ask that question, but I don't see how anyone could ever trust Alex Meruelo with a NHL team ever again, and my hypothesis is that the Coyotes fanbase has enough pride to tell that grifting scumbag to shove it.

At this point….. none.

And I think there’s going to be more coming out soon that will make that even more evident. That’s just based on a hunch but it’s a pretty strong one.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

At this point….. none.

And I think there’s going to be more coming out soon that will make that even more evident. That’s just based on a hunch but it’s a pretty strong one.

So f***ing depressing.

I'm not a Coyotes fan but this whole thing is just so sad. Everything about it is a tragedy. Those that deserve to suffer from this are the ones that will profit the most, which is the ultimate and final insult.

 

[dj4aces]

The problem Phoenix and the NHL have in this market in a future without AM being the owner, is convincing someone else that these 28 years were just an aberration and not what the market is, and getting them to buy in.

I don't know if that'd be much of a challenge, to be completely honest. Anyone who has paid the least amount of attention understands that it's not the Phoenix market that failed. Just like us here in Atlanta, just like Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford, it wasn't fan support that caused our teams to move. It's ownership that failed us, and the fans are paying for it.