CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[bleedblue94]

I'm pointing out that you seemed to enjoy mocking things, but had a problem when it came back at you.



There's a narrative running around that the Coyotes are going to ask for tax breaks. Yet there is zero evidence they are, and the Coyotes themselves are on the record they aren't asking for a GPLET. Avoiding a public referendum is paramount here. A GPLET would more than likely draw one.

They have said they might look at the theme park district concept but as the law stands right now it would involve needing approval of the city and county on top of the state. Every step open to a public referendum.

And now you want to claim he's going to build this district with the intent to sell the team once it's built. And I won't say it's right or wrong...... I'll just point to the fact that Alex Meruelo has never sold an asset he's acquired....... ever.

I don't at all. And you mocked my comment on Monday and on Wednesday it's being reported in multiple places that it might actually happen.

As for the asset, if the team is just a gateway to the bigger assets that he wants which is the actual district, then why not sell the team and recouped 1b at that point if you find someone that wants to actually own the team and is willing to sign a lease agreement with you or is willing to buy the team and arena within your bigger district where you still get all the other revenues?

That 1b can then be used towards another, more profitable development or asset than the team and arena after it is built. This delusion that this is about the coyotes and making a home for them is nuts. This is about using the coyotes to get the bigger development. Just bc he would own the district and everything inside of it when the project happens doesn't mean he needs to own what will probably be one of the lowest revenue items within the entire district after it's completed.

Gutierrez has literally said that the arena would be the number one priority (because that's the entire key to getting their project approve and turned into reality) And then all of the money making items would come after that. So if the person that's literally heading this entire program is telling you that the items within the district other than the arena are the money making objects then why is it so crazy to think that AM would move on from the team and the arena once he actually gets what he wants, which is an entertainment district that will actually generate him his big money. Even if he sells it it's not like the team's going to be able to move at that point.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Came here to see how long it took for this to happen. Almost fifteen years relocation had been talked about.

I have theories as to why it happened this long and why the NHL fancies the Coyotes existence.

spill your theory.

 

[Skidooboy]

no one seems to tie this to the recent announcment from the Mayor of Scottsdale saying “Arena not welcome” and “no water licence to service the development”.

even if they win the auction it was another political squabble, possibly another referendum, and a public display of how the people in the Valley don’t want, need, or care about the NHL and hockey.

 

[bleedblue94]

Must be really confusing for everybody in this thread that their savior Craig Morgan who constantly says nothing is going on is actually bringing on Frank who those same people say know's nothing about Arizona and is just making things up from random sources. Really awkward for the Bible reader to be calling in the joker to be a credible source on his own show.

 

[Tawnos]

no one seems to tie this to the recent announcment from the Mayor of Scottsdale saying “Arena not welcome” and “no water licence to service the development”.

even if they win the auction it was another political squabble, possibly another referendum, and a public display of how the people in the Valley don’t want, need, or care about the NHL and hockey.

because they’re enitrely unrelated

 

[LPHabsFan]

no one seems to tie this to the recent announcment from the Mayor of Scottsdale saying “Arena not welcome” and “no water licence to service the development”.

even if they win the auction it was another political squabble, possibly another referendum, and a public display of how the people in the Valley don’t want, need, or care about the NHL and hockey.

Because realistically, while it may have caused some minor issues, it wasn't going to be a deal breaker. If you listen to reporters, this has been going on for a while. A statement a couple of days ago (or yesterday I don't remember), wouldn't have made things go from 0 to 95% in that short amount of time.

 

[bleedblue94]

No, he’s trying to build an arena for a hockey team. Doesn’t have to be for this one.

No he's not, he's using a distressed hockey team as an angle to build an entertainment district for actual revenue well beyond what the team could give him

 

[TheLegend]

Must be really confusing for everybody in this thread that their savior Craig Morgan who constantly says nothing is going on is actually bringing on Frank who those same people say know he's nothing about Arizona and is just making things up from random sources. Really awkward for the Bible reader to be calling in the joker to be a credible source on his own show.

Not really....

 

[bleedblue94]

The thing is most of those cities are more valuable as a general TV market than the 4 Canadian NHL cities would be if it weren't hockey. Green Bay is about the only one on your list that falls in line with the 4 Canadian cities but obviously it's a special circumstance.

The NHL wants in to as many mid to big US TV markets as it can get

Bingo, national TV contract is their aim, especially with the issues of most regional TV contracts anymore. They have a door with national partners and can grow it even further. Bigger viewership means significant increase to sponsors revenues which benefit all owners. This isn't rocket science

Not really....

You constantly criticize Frank (I'm not even a fan of him), and now Morgan is bringing him on. Ha

 

[Snarky Coyote]

OK I think its time to lock this and start the Utah thread. Goodbye Farewell Amen

 

[Skidooboy]

Because realistically, while it may have caused some minor issues, it wasn't going to be a deal breaker. If you listen to reporters, this has been going on for a while. A statement a couple of days ago (or yesterday I don't remember), wouldn't have made things go from 0 to 95% in that short amount of time.

i think it’s very important.
after the referendum in Tempe the league looks bad, now another political squabble just as the idea of a land purchase seems imminent….

this is 100% about optics, and between the Players and PA hating the Mullet, the black eye Tempe voters saying “NO!”

I think the league has had enough of the Valley’s apathy and rejection.

 

[Melrose Munch]

No he's not, he's using a distressed hockey team as an angle to build an entertainment district for actual revenue well beyond what the team could give him

Like I said. This is about building a mall/theatre or whatever.

 

[LPHabsFan]

i think it’s very important.
after the referendum in Tempe the league looks bad, now another political squabble just as the idea of a land purchase seems imminent….

this is 100% about optics, and between the Players and PA hating the Mullet, the black eye Tempe voters saying “NO!”

I think the league has had enough of the Valley’s apathy and rejection.

Again, you're trying to make a connection from yesterday to today. When you have reporters coming out and saying that it's 90% - 95% done, that the lawyers are involved, that this has been going on for months. Keep in mind, the first reporting of this was by Friedman and Marek (and maybe Frank too) right before the All Star Break. There's just no way that a small political squabble from 24 hours ago had any real impact on things.

The rest of your statement about optics, the PA, the Tempe vote, all of that is true. I'm just separating that from what happened yesterday.

 

[TheLegend]

You constantly criticize Frank (I'm not even a fan of him), and now Morgan is bringing him on. Ha

Only from the standpoint when he was projecting things that weren't confirmed. Some of it often looked like rambling nonsense.... and in some small cases even wrong.

Morgan brought him on to give him a chance to give more depth to this recent story. What's the problem with that?? I'd rather see that than get it all off of Twitter in bits and pieces.

I also give credit where it's due. Servalli made a good presentation on this podcast.

Friedman confirmed it and added that the situation is getting bad. PA, owners etc.... are very leery Meruelo can pull this off. He gets the land and then what? It's three more years playing at ASU. There's pressure coming from multiple sides.

 

[TheLegend]

Again, you're trying to make a connection from yesterday to today. When you have reporters coming out and saying that it's 90% - 95% done, that the lawyers are involved, that this has been going on for months. Keep in mind, the first reporting of this was by Friedman and Marek (and maybe Frank too) right before the All Star Break. There's just no way that a small political squabble from 24 hours ago had any real impact on things.

The rest of your statement about optics, the PA, the Tempe vote, all of that is true. I'm just separating that from what happened yesterday.

Friedman said on the PHNX podcast there's been rumblings back well before the trade deadline. Said it has been off and on for months.

I doubt the Scottsdale mayor's Op-Ed had anything to do with it.

 

[bleedblue94]

Only from the standpoint when he was projecting things that weren't confirmed. Some of it often looked like rambling nonsense.... and in some small cases even wrong.

Morgan brought him on to give him a chance to give more depth to this recent story. What's the problem with that?? I'd rather see that than get it all off of Twitter in bits and pieces.

I also give credit where it's due. Servalli made a good presentation on this podcast.

Friedman confirmed it and added that the situation is getting bad. PA, owners etc.... are very leery Meruelo can pull this off. He gets the land and then what? It's three more years playing at ASU. There's pressure coming from multiple sides.

Earlier today you yourself made posts to discredit Frank again claiming that he was citing sources that were speculating so anything he actually reported was speculation as well.

You're only now starting to budge from this complete one-sided thinking and defense over the last few months because there's basically no wiggle room anymore. Everything that people have been pointing out over this time has been building to this unfortunately and now it's here. Just because it took a few months for it to actually come out and be public at the end of the season (which was always the rational and reasonable time for any of this to come out) doesn't mean that you were right the whole time that you were trying to discredit it and discount everybody else that was pointing out the obvious in what direction this was actually going. Of course there's people out there that are happy that the coyotes are looking to potentially move just because they love hating on the team and love seeing other people suffer (not good people), But the majority of people that have been looking at this sort of inevitability since Ted failed have been doing so through the lens of Short-Term pain for long-term stability. As much as it would suck for it to actually happen and for the team to move right now in the long run you can reboot things and at that point come in without all the baggage from the past. Even if they manage to win the land auction that baggage is going to follow him, and then even if they get to the next step of approvals the baggage is still going to follow them along with the press and the heat and the negativity. The ability to orchestrate this and do this all without the spotlight on the organization and the owner is much more of the leagues MO historically then the way that this particular situation has been handled for two decades. I understand why people are defensive because of the loud shitty people that are just happy to see the market in disarray, but the majority of people actually don't like it at all and feel bad for the coyotes fans. For how many years has this consistently just gone downhill and step backwards? There comes a point when negative momentum is really just a thing and you need to be able to hit reset to get to where you want to be. Sometimes you just need to take a break and start something over, or just walk away from it and then come back with a fresh set of eyes and a New direction to achieve your goal. I think it's universally accepted that if the coyotes 1.0 leaves then coyotes 2.0 will absolutely be coming back to Arizona and when that day comes I'll be thrilled to see it because his others have pointed out the jerseys are absolutely fantastic and the energy of a successful project in that market after all this BS for so long is going to be terrific. The optimist in you and most fans says that if they win the land auction then the optimum timetable is going to be the real timetable, unfortunately we have seen forever that's not the case and especially not in Arizona. You know damn well that even after they win the auction the first hiccup that they have is going to have everyone running around like idiots again if the team is still in Arizona. If they relocate they can deal with all this stuff without the international media constantly all over the situation.

 

[Skidooboy]

Friedman said on the PHNX podcast there's been rumblings back well before the trade deadline. Said it has been off and on for months.

I doubt the Scottsdale mayor's Op-

You dismissed me with the same kind of statement months ago when the NHLPA said they didn’t like mullet… or much the same about Tempe, and Tempe’s referendum…..or any of the other Dozens of failures the market has had over the years….so forgive me if i don’t really think you have a critical analysis of the issue.

in my mind it 100% changes things.

is it The CAUSe? no.

but it indicates that just like Tempe, Murello had more hurdles to jump than maybe people believed, and again, when you have places begging for franchises and are trying to grow the game, another mounting public political squabble, and possible legal/legislative battle in a bad market, who continuously say a loud collective “NO” to pro hockey…,that , that might be the straw that broke the camel’s back.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Guys. I've figured out why some of us are truly on edge today. It's not because the team might finally move. It's because we don't know what were going to be able to do with ourselves without coming to the BOH Forum every day to argue stupidities over the Coyotes relocation.

But don't worry, we'll be fine. We'll be able to keep the mega thread alive. Because while we may not be able to talk about the relocation (though I'm sure there's going to be a lot of sordid details that will leak out about the whole saga), we can still come here every day and argue over the future expansion of the Arizona TBD franchise and how it's a terrible idea (lol).

Earlier today you yourself made posts to discredit Frank again claiming that he was citing sources that were speculating so anything he actually reported was speculation as well.

Bruh. Formatting......

 

[TheLegend]

Earlier today you yourself made posts to discredit Frank again claiming that he was citing sources that were speculating so anything he actually reported was speculation as well.

I wasn't posting about Frank earlier today.

You're only now starting to budge from this complete one-sided thinking and defense over the last few months because there's basically no wiggle room anymore. Everything that people have been pointing out over this time has been building to this unfortunately and now it's here. Just because it took a few months for it to actually come out and be public at the end of the season (which was always the rational and reasonable time for any of this to come out) doesn't mean that you were right the whole time that you were trying to discredit it and discount everybody else that was pointing out the obvious in what direction this was actually going. Of course there's people out there that are happy that the coyotes are looking to potentially move just because they love hating on the team and love seeing other people suffer (not good people), But the majority of people that have been looking at this sort of inevitability since Ted failed have been doing so through the lens of Short-Term pain for long-term stability. As much as it would suck for it to actually happen and for the team to move right now in the long run you can reboot things and at that point come in without all the baggage from the past. Even if they manage to win the land auction that baggage is going to follow him, and then even if they get to the next step of approvals the baggage is still going to follow them along with the press and the heat and the negativity. The ability to orchestrate this and do this all without the spotlight on the organization and the owner is much more of the leagues MO historically then the way that this particular situation has been handled for two decades. I understand why people are defensive because of the loud shitty people that are just happy to see the market in disarray, but the majority of people actually don't like it at all and feel bad for the coyotes fans. For how many years has this consistently just gone downhill and step backwards? There comes a point when negative momentum is really just a thing and you need to be able to hit reset to get to where you want to be. Sometimes you just need to take a break and start something over, or just walk away from it and then come back with a fresh set of eyes and a New direction to achieve your goal. I think it's universally accepted that if the coyotes 1.0 leaves then coyotes 2.0 will absolutely be coming back to Arizona and when that day comes I'll be thrilled to see it because his others have pointed out the jerseys are absolutely fantastic and the energy of a successful project in that market after all this BS for so long is going to be terrific. The optimist in you and most fans says that if they win the land auction then the optimum timetable is going to be the real timetable, unfortunately we have seen forever that's not the case and especially not in Arizona. You know damn well that even after they win the auction the first hiccup that they have is going to have everyone running around like idiots again if the team is still in Arizona. If they relocate they can deal with all this stuff without the international media constantly all over the situation.

Jeezsus.... try using paragraphs....

I knew there wasn't wiggle room. After TED tanked I was concerned how much longer the league would put up with it.

Current timeline runs one more year than TED would have, but there's no absolutes Meruelo can pull this off. In spite of Meruelo declaring he's going to make it work come hell or high water.

Had there not been these bids from Salt Lake City or Atlanta in the queue the league MIGHT have been willing to tolerate it an extra year. There's just too much pressure coming come multiple sides for them to do that.

 

[Tawnos]

Guys. I've figured out why some of us are truly on edge today. It's not because the team might finally move. It's because we don't know what were going to be able to do with ourselves without coming to the BOH Forum every day to argue stupidities over the Coyotes relocation.

But don't worry, we'll be fine. We'll be able to keep the mega thread alive. Because while we may not be able to talk about the relocation (though I'm sure there's going to be a lot of sordid details that will leak out about the whole saga), we can still come here every day and argue over the future expansion of the Arizona TBD franchise and how it's a terrible idea (lol).


Bruh. Formatting......

Some in this thread are on edge because they might be losing their team. Would be nice if some people could resist the urge to dump or dunk on them.

(Not that you were doing that here, but it’s something I wanted to say)

 

[GKJ]

It’s certainly understandable that people who are seeing reporting taken on the relocation of their team would be more amenable to local reporters more in tune with their team on the ground, in their city, it just leaves then vulnerable to getting a narrative based on what they want people to know whereas national reporters are less amenable given sources are almost always going to be higher placed and without or with less regard.

 

[PCSPounder]

It’s one thing that the Scottsdale mayor wasn’t exactly pledging any help to the project. But didn’t I read him saying “hockey fantasy?” Usually, local leaders play VERY nice with the local sports teams. That was a red flag. That felt like he knew something.

And I don’t think SLC is the most viable location. I think Meruelo burned one too many bridges. I don’t think he’s really left efforts unspared. I highly doubt any local bigwigs liked any of the Glendale stunts, and the power brokers in Arizona don’t seem impressed with either Meruelo or the NHL front office. There’s no reason to judge Phoenix as a hockey market IMO, but things really need to go back to square one to make something work. It’s a burned market, please pardon the pun.

After all that, I think RSN failures have a lot to do with this, too. I think the NHL is more spooked OVERALL than it has been in a while.

I should add a couple other observations.

Anyone tells me a major league team is not seeking a tax break… what? Are you freaking kidding me? Doesn’t the NHL kind of live on those in smaller markets?

In Portland, I watch the Diamond Group offer $55 million for a golf course on 164 acres. If you go by other area property, the market rate is at least $98 million. By the way, crickets since then. Does someone think Meruelo is going to try to go short at auction? Is HE interfering with someone else’s bid?

 

[Swervin81]

Given all the reporting today, it seems like it's happening and it's just a matter of dotting i's and crossing t's.

If the Meruelo group never cheaped out on the Tempe referendum and actually got the arena district referendum passed through, I highly doubt the NHL starts seeking outside suitors the way they did and I highly doubt you see SLC/Ryan Smith openly enthusiastic as he is right now about bringing hockey there. I mean, yeah, the players would still throw a stink and the owners would still find that playing 3 additional years at Mullett is far from ideal. But the league would not have any leverage to twist Meruelo's arm with and given that cleanup on the landfill would've been ongoing by now, it would've been fair to consider the path to getting an arena built by 2027 fairly certain. The league would've had to see it through.

But the Tempe deal falling through was likely curtains. The NHL started seeking outside suitors, SLC was all to happy to oblige (I mean way, way too enthusiastically happy to oblige), and then the NHL suddenly had leverage to twist Meruelo's arm with. Now they can incentivize him to sell and give him a nice payout w/ right of first refusal for a new team (a la Browns/Hornets) in doing so because Smith seems all too willing to pay way out the nose for an NHL team. And that's all on top of everything else going against the Coyotes' current situation (auction being after latest point of relocation for next year/having to risk a lame duck disaster year at Mullett if the auction fell through, PA raising hell about playing at Mullett for much longer, no guarantee of political squabbles post-auction, the North Phoenix location being nowhere near good enough to justify the potential headaches like Tempe was, etc).

 

[Daximus]

apparently it does.

No it really doesn't as the NHL seems to be barrelling ahead with the option that puts more butts in seats sooner. Money always wins.

 

[aqib]

One thing i wonder about is if AM was willing to buy land and build the arena and a full entertainment district while paying for all the needed infrastructure with zero tax payer support, why not do it in Houston?