CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Devils 3silverones]

….. and the squires of the Business Of Hockey forum (who drop in once every 6 months with their “expertise”) would say it isn’t an announcement until THEY declare it to be.

(present company not included of course.)

Happy end of summer Legend. You've been up on it more than I.
One more camping weekend coming up.
Hope you are all well. Drop the puck.

 

[Reaser]

the US National team started playing there because it was such a great soccer market; that kind of thing.

The USMNT was already playing in Seattle before MLS, last matches in the group state of the Gold Cup two years before MLS to Seattle was even announced. Played a match the Sounders first MLS season but it was actually harder, during that time, to get the USMNT to play in Seattle AFTER the Sounders first MLS season than it was prior to Seattle even being awarded an MLS expansion team.

So I'd cut that part out, at a minimum.

 

[mouser]

Mod note: Please keep any Barroway discussion in the dedicated Barroway thread on the BoH.

 

[Shwan]

Mod note: Please keep any Barroway discussion in the dedicated Barroway thread on the BoH.

I'll abide but I feel it's important to acknowledge that I was wrong about something I talked about previously in the thread.

 

[KevFu]

Sure people thought it was ridiculous that LA didn't have a team but was anyone from LA bemoaning the absence of the NFL?

Compare that to any other market that lost a team. Seattle, Cleveland, heck I heard more people from Brooklyn complaining about the Dodgers 50 years after they left than LA football fans.

The point is, it's all anecdotal. Unless you take a complete census, you have no clue if it's seven people, 47 people, 47000 people are 14.7 million people.

I know people in Quebec want an NHL team back, but the only ones I've seen are the 250-400 people who went to road games in Diques gear.

 

[aqib]

The point is, it's all anecdotal. Unless you take a complete census, you have no clue if it's seven people, 47 people, 47000 people are 14.7 million people.

I know people in Quebec want an NHL team back, but the only ones I've seen are the 250-400 people who went to road games in Diques gear.

ok but you've seen a lot of active campaigns, social media groups, the city and Provincial government. In LA's case it was mostly crickets.

 

[Stumbledore]

I'll abide but I feel it's important to acknowledge that I was wrong about something I talked about previously in the thread.

It's important to acknowledge you were wrong about something?

Hell, son, I'm wrong about something every day. Just ask my wife and kids and grandkids.

 

[PredsHead]

Looks like the Coyotes are still in the "multiple sites we are working" phase on a new arena plan. If they need to have something concrete in place around mid-season, wouldn't they want to have a workable plan in place pretty soon? Something they could put before any zoning boards or commissions and things like that. I understand the Coyotes are trying to keep this from any sort of public referendum , but I am assuming there would be several agencies that would have to approve either the arena and entertainment district itself or at least any roadway changes associated with the arena and entrainment district. Not to mention any planning that would have to be done around the utilities that would service the arena and entertainment district. All of that would take time and would need some sort of plan in place to even be able to estimate what was needed from a municipal or utility stand point.

I understand the situations will be very different for any new arena site, but for context it took something like 16 months for the TED proposal to go from the RFP being issued until the city council finally agreed pending the outcome of the referendum. That is not counting work the Coyotes had to put in to even get to the point where the RFP was issued. Now they are trying to go from multiple sites to a plan they can sell as viable to the NHL in around 6 months? Not saying it can't be done, but one would think the Coyotes need to get something started pretty quickly.

 

[TheLegend]

Looks like the Coyotes are still in the "multiple sites we are working" phase on a new arena plan. If they need to have something concrete in place around mid-season, wouldn't they want to have a workable plan in place pretty soon? Something they could put before any zoning boards or commissions and things like that. I understand the Coyotes are trying to keep this from any sort of public referendum , but I am assuming there would be several agencies that would have to approve either the arena and entertainment district itself or at least any roadway changes associated with the arena and entrainment district. Not to mention any planning that would have to be done around the utilities that would service the arena and entertainment district. All of that would take time and would need some sort of plan in place to even be able to estimate what was needed from a municipal or utility stand point.

I understand the situations will be very different for any new arena site, but for context it took something like 16 months for the TED proposal to go from the RFP being issued until the city council finally agreed pending the outcome of the referendum. That is not counting work the Coyotes had to put in to even get to the point where the RFP was issued. Now they are trying to go from multiple sites to a plan they can sell as viable to the NHL in around 6 months? Not saying it can't be done, but one would think the Coyotes need to get something started pretty quickly.

The situation has not changed…. at all.

Some of these potential sites were previously looked at before TED. As long as they can get something going forward they currently aren’t on any clock. ASU can even extend the lease a second option year at their discretion and right now the Coyotes are worth a lot to them in income at Mullett.

 

[PredsHead]

The situation has not changed…. at all.

Some of these potential sites were previously looked at before TED. As long as they can get something going forward they currently aren’t on any clock. ASU can even extend the lease a second option year at their discretion and right now the Coyotes are worth a lot to them in income at Mullett.

Yes I am saying that the situation hasn't changed and that is becoming a problem. The referendum failed nearly 4 months ago now and the only thing the Coyotes have offered as an update is that there are still multiple sites they are looking at and that they could possibly maybe one day buy some land in Mesa.

According to the article below, they are very much are on a clock.
LeBrun: Clock ticking on Coyotes as Gary Bettman lays out NHL's options for relocation and expansion

 

[TheLegend]

Yes I am saying that the situation hasn't changed and that is becoming a problem. The referendum failed nearly 4 months ago now and the only thing the Coyotes have offered as an update is that there are still multiple sites they are looking at and that they could possibly maybe one day buy some land in Mesa.

According to the article below, they are very much are on a clock.
LeBrun: Clock ticking on Coyotes as Gary Bettman lays out NHL's options for relocation and expansion

And suddenly people believe a Bettman quote on its surface alone.

If you haven’t figured it out by now the Coyotes don’t owe anyone (especially this forum) day by day updates as to what their plans are.

I get the notion that the propensity to inject drama into this is lucrative, but for most of us who’ve been at this since 2009 it’s just another day.

 

[Fatass]

Yes I am saying that the situation hasn't changed and that is becoming a problem. The referendum failed nearly 4 months ago now and the only thing the Coyotes have offered as an update is that there are still multiple sites they are looking at and that they could possibly maybe one day buy some land in Mesa.

According to the article below, they are very much are on a clock.
LeBrun: Clock ticking on Coyotes as Gary Bettman lays out NHL's options for relocation and expansion

It sure seems to me like the Coyotes lease in Mullet expires right about the time the new rink in Georgia is planned to be finished.

 

[PredsHead]

And suddenly people believe a Bettman quote on its surface alone.

If you haven’t figured it out by now the Coyotes don’t owe anyone (especially this forum) day by day updates as to what their plans are.

I get the notion that the propensity to inject drama into this is lucrative, but for most of us who’ve been at this since 2009 it’s just another day.

Its not just Bettman, Daly and Marty Walsh are quoted as basically saying the same thing,

It wasn't me that asked Xavier for the update. Pretty sure that was PHNX so apparently I am not the only one who is curious about it.

 

[TheLegend]

Its not just Bettman, Daly and Marty Walsh are quoted as basically saying the same thing,

And it means nothing. There’s always been a running clock since the last day they played in Glendale. But you should realize there’s no set time when it runs out either.

It wasn't me that asked Xavier for the update. Pretty sure that was PHNX so apparently I am not the only one who is curious about it.

I know…. I posted it yesterday in F40.

The conversation was part of an event the Coyotes held to announce their partnership with Equality Health to sponsor ball hockey leagues in the Phoenix Metro area. It was covered by the local media. That was the bigger story than the arena but he was asked about it.

PHNX essentially pulled the arena comments segment out of a much larger presser.

Camp starts next week and there will be more media present and he’ll probably be asked about it again.

 

[PredsHead]

And it means nothing. There’s always been a running clock since the last day they played in Glendale. But you should realize there’s no set time when it runs out either.

It seems that there is a time that clock is set to run out, and it seems like that is the midpoint of this season. As stated in article, neither the NHL nor the NHLPA have any interest in playing at Mullett beyond the original lease. That lease would end, with the optional year added, after the 2025-26 season. Meaning any new arena would need to be finished around September/October 2026.

At a minimum it will take two full years to physically build any arena, which means Meruelo needs to break ground by September/October 2024. Then you can estimate that he will need 6 months from before they break ground to get the land purchased, financial backing lined up, plus any municipal and/or utilities approvals. That means by around March/April 2024 Meruelo needs to have the plan not just on paper but in actual motion.

However the NHL would likely need to know by around January/February 2024 if they need to discuss any potential sale and relocation of the Coyotes before the 2024-25 season. Otherwise the Coyotes could go into the 2024-25 season as a lame duck in Mullett, which I think is something that no one involved wants. That would likely be a disaster both from a PR perspective and financially. Its taken the BOG four months to approve Andlauer so far and that's just the approval not the negotiation for the sale itself. Not to mention that Andlauer is already an partial owner of the Canadiens and that sale doesn't involve any relocation. They would likely need to have any relocation announced by May 2024 in order to get everything ready to start the 2024-25 season in the new city. Which means that the BOG would likely need to at least privately start vetting any potential new owners and discussing what relocation fees might be by the mid-season date that Bettman and Daly gave.

 

[aqib]

At least he didn't say "two weeks"

 

[TheLegend]

It seems that there is a time that clock is set to run out, and it seems like that is the midpoint of this season. As stated in article, neither the NHL nor the NHLPA have any interest in playing at Mullett beyond the original lease. That lease would end, with the optional year added, after the 2025-26 season. Meaning any new arena would need to be finished around September/October 2026.

At a minimum it will take two full years to physically build any arena, which means Meruelo needs to break ground by September/October 2024. Then you can estimate that he will need 6 months from before they break ground to get the land purchased, financial backing lined up, plus any municipal and/or utilities approvals. That means by around March/April 2024 Meruelo needs to have the plan not just on paper but in actual motion.

However the NHL would likely need to know by around January/February 2024 if they need to discuss any potential sale and relocation of the Coyotes before the 2024-25 season. Otherwise the Coyotes could go into the 2024-25 season as a lame duck in Mullett, which I think is something that no one involved wants. That would likely be a disaster both from a PR perspective and financially. Its taken the BOG four months to approve Andlauer so far and that's just the approval not the negotiation for the sale itself. Not to mention that Andlauer is already an partial owner of the Canadiens and that sale doesn't involve any relocation. They would likely need to have any relocation announced by May 2024 in order to get everything ready to start the 2024-25 season in the new city. Which means that the BOG would likely need to at least privately start vetting any potential new owners and discussing what relocation fees might be by the mid-season date that Bettman and Daly gave.

Well since you have it all figured out then there's nothing more to worry about.

Other than the fact the last 14 years of history flies against all of it.

 

[sawchuk1971]

Yes I am saying that the situation hasn't changed and that is becoming a problem. The referendum failed nearly 4 months ago now and the only thing the Coyotes have offered as an update is that there are still multiple sites they are looking at and that they could possibly maybe one day buy some land in Mesa.

According to the article below, they are very much are on a clock.
LeBrun: Clock ticking on Coyotes as Gary Bettman lays out NHL's options for relocation and expansion

could you give a summary of the athletic article? its a paywall....

 

[PredsHead]

could you give a summary of the athletic article? its a paywall....

It is from right after Gary Bettman and Billy Daly gave their annual "state of the union" press conference before the Stanley Cup Final. In it you have quotes from Bettman, Daly and Marty Walsh. All saying basically some version of the same thing: There has to be a firm plan in place soon for the Coyotes.

Most of the quotes are also in this article:
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/arizo...s-committed-to-keeping-the-coyotes-in-arizona

Here's Bettman saying much the same with Elliotte Friedman (cut to around 5:00):

 

[Dirty Old Man]

It is from right after Gary Bettman and Billy Daly gave their annual "state of the union" press conference before the Stanley Cup Final. ... *deleted*

Again, typical BoH relocationistas...only believe what they want to believe, they'll even believe "Bettman and his minions" if they say the Coyotes might move from Arizona... anything to keep their shallow disgusting, dreams alive. Approaching 15 years and counting.

DOM out.

 

[Lions67]

Again, typical BoH relocationistas...only believe what they want to believe, they'll even believe "Bettman and his minions" if they say the Coyotes might move from Arizona... anything to keep their shallow disgusting, dreams alive. Approaching 15 years and counting.

DOM out.

Well we can say the exact same thing for all the apologists. Both sides want what they want. The only thing I know for certain is that this dog is a zombie. You can’t kill it, no matter how hard you try. Lol

 

[TheLegend]

Well we can say the exact same thing for all the apologists. Both sides want what they want. The only thing I know for certain is that this dog is a zombie. You can’t kill it, no matter how hard you try. Lol

The only thing for certain is living here in Arizona we have a better viewpoint of what’s really going on than someone from across the continent who gets their info from others who are just as disconnected from it as they are.

But then it’s just easier to blow us off as “apologists” because it makes a good excuse.

 

[Lions67]

The only thing for certain is living here in Arizona we have a better viewpoint of what’s really going on than someone from across the continent who gets their info from others who are just as disconnected from it as they are.

But then it’s just easier to blow us off as “apologists” because it makes a good excuse.

I used “apologists” in response to “relocationists”.. see?… my point has been validated. Appreciate that Legend.

 

[TheLegend]

I used “apologists” in response to “relocationists”.. see?… my point has been validated. Appreciate that Legend.

And I should acknowledge how you validate my point that most people here are more into scoring drama and debate points than anything else.

 

[Lions67]

And I should acknowledge how you validate my point that most people here are more into scoring drama and debate points than anything else.

I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t lol.