CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah, that’s the actual news and speculation separation. The speculation part is something anyone can be doing. The news is new though.

I disagree about the timeline for relocation though. If they feel it’s what they have to do, they will do it. As long as something can be lined, we know the NHL can move heaven and earth. What we don’t know is if the owners are at their wits end and how viable another potential option in Arizona is.

But lets talk about Houston, since that's what was suggested.

The problem has always been Tilman Fertitta. He controls the Toyota Centre in Houston, and he's shown zero interest in spending $600-$800 million in buying an NHL franchise. I'm sure he'd be happy for the Coyotes to play in the Toyota Centre and pay him market-rate rent, but we know that the team can't survive that way - you need additional revenue streams.

Even if Fertitta had a change of heart and does want to buy a team - you can't negotiate and then close a deal of that magnitude in 2 weeks.

If relocation is ultimately what happens (and I've been burned too many times on the Coyotes to ever make that prediction again), the much more likely outcome is the Coyotes continue to play at Mullett next year. Meruelo continues to say they're looking at options, how they're happy to play at ASU, all the while in the meantime a relocation and/or sale of the franchise is negotiated behind closed doors, only to be announced around this time next year.

 

[Stumbledore]

Yeah, that’s the actual news and speculation separation. The speculation part is something anyone can be doing. The news is new though.

What news? Seravalli speculating or sticking a mic in someone's face for virtually the same opinion as his own does not qualify as news. It's what he does.

The Coyotes are not moving. Not this summer, possibly not ever. There will be a plan B, or a plan C, or God knows what. As long as it embarrasses Bettman, I will inhale more popcorn, chuckle evilly, and enjoy the gift that keeps on giving right up to the moment I probably choke to death on my popcorn.

 

[Tawnos]

But lets talk about Houston, since that's what was suggested.

The problem has always been Tilman Fertitta. He controls the Toyota Centre in Houston, and he's shown zero interest in spending $600-$800 million in buying an NHL franchise. I'm sure he'd be happy for the Coyotes to play in the Toyota Centre and pay him market-rate rent, but we know that the team can't survive that way - you need additional revenue streams.

Even if Fertitta had a change of heart and does want to buy a team - you can't negotiate and then close a deal of that magnitude in 2 weeks.

If relocation is ultimately what happens (and I've been burned too many times on the Coyotes to ever make that prediction again), the much more likely outcome is the Coyotes continue to play at Mullett next year. Meruelo continues to say they're looking at options, how they're happy to play at ASU, all the while in the meantime a relocation and/or sale of the franchise is negotiated behind closed doors, only to be announced around this time next year.

I think the timeline for negotiating a relocation is probably more along the lines of 2 months from the referendum date, not two weeks.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you about it happening next year rather than this year. Just saying that there's still plenty of time here. All the stuff Meruelo is saying now, he will be saying right up until the moment they either have an arena deal in Arizona or he sells the team to be relocated. I personally wouldn't put any stock into it.

 

[GKJ]

What news? Seravalli speculating or sticking a mic in someone's face for virtually the same opinion as his own does not qualify as news. It's what he does.

The Coyotes are not moving. Not this summer, possibly not ever. There will be a plan B, or a plan C, or God knows what. As long as it embarrasses Bettman, I will inhale more popcorn, chuckle evilly, and enjoy the gift that keeps on giving right up to the moment I probably choke to death on my popcorn.

Think you should reread the posts, friend. We clearly separate speculation from not.

I think the timeline for negotiating a relocation is probably more along the lines of 2 months from the referendum date, not two weeks.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you about it happening next year rather than this year. Just saying that there's still plenty of time here. All the stuff Meruelo is saying now, he will be saying right up until the moment they either have an arena deal in Arizona or he sells the team to be relocated. I personally wouldn't put any stock into it.

Nobody truly knows until the vote comes down. There’s this about canvassing, we know Bettman has been on TV making pitches. At best, they don’t know either, this isn’t being put to a vote because the city is confident that it’s a popular measure.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

So the one bit of news Seravalli had in that clip is that members of the Coyotes front office are out canvassing in advance of this vote. Also that in their sales pitch it's mostly about the great public space, more concerts - and that Arizona Coyotes hockey was something like #8.

His notion that if the vote fails he doesn't know how they can survive, that they might move this summer, and likely to Houston - that's all him speculating.

If nothing else, I think the Coyotes lease with ASU was for 2 years with an option for a third, so they're probably going to stay for at least one more year.

I went through this in 2011 with the Jets. The official announcement was made May 31, but there were serious hints being dropped well beforehand. The Tempe vote isn't until May 16. If the vote fails on May 16 (and they might not even know the results until a day or two later) there simply wouldn't be enough time to move the team in the summer.

May 31 was really too late to move a team.

It was a ridiculous sprint for ownership in Winnipeg to be fully ready.

I also think if the Coyotes were 100 per cent relying on this vote to stay in Arizona, they would have laid that foundation with their communications with the public, so I'm inclined to believe there is some kind of backup plan in place if the vote fails.

Although maybe they just suck at communication, lol

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Yeah, that’s the actual news and speculation separation. The speculation part is something anyone can be doing. The news is new though.

Is it? Videos of Gutierrez, Armstrong, and Shane Doan doing what would be considered canvassing have been around for weeks. Granted, I'm not going to waste my day skipping through that audio clip to find yet another baseless Canadian speculation of the Coyotes moving to Houston, but what was 'new'?

 

[TheLegend]

Seravalli is about as tuned in on what's happening in Arizona as any deaf person would be.

Yes.... front office people are canvassing. But they aren't the only ones.

Yes... they aren't making the arena the sole talking point because it's not just an arena.

He should be looking at why Calgary and Alberta will be pumping nearly a billion dollars between them into a new barn (plus a similar district) for the Flames, while a little town of 166,000 can get it done for 1/5th of that and have the project itself pay for it.

 

[Stumbledore]

Think you should reread the posts, friend. We clearly separate speculation from not.

Sorry, I'm confused about who "We" refers to here.

I thought you were saying that what Frank Seravalli was saying was news and not speculation. I'm saying Seravalli sells a lot of speculation and is often proven wrong or full or bullshit.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think the timeline for negotiating a relocation is probably more along the lines of 2 months from the referendum date, not two weeks.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you about it happening next year rather than this year. Just saying that there's still plenty of time here. All the stuff Meruelo is saying now, he will be saying right up until the moment they either have an arena deal in Arizona or he sells the team to be relocated. I personally wouldn't put any stock into it.

No way the team can be relocated two months from now.

As mentioned Atlanta->Winnipeg was incredibly tight, and that was announced May 31. Two months from now would be the end of June. Training camps start in September, so that would give the team July and August to move.

Just think about what you need to do. I mean there's the obvious - you have to physically move the team and its assets to the new city, together with everyone involved moving themselves and their family.

But you have to hire a whole new staff, from ticket agents to marketing people to who knows what else. You have to run a season ticket drive. WInnipeg at least had the advantage that they had an AHL franchise back-end already in place. Soif Fertitta bought the team he could rely on the Rockets back-end, but anyone else would have to build that kind of thing from scratch.

 

[GKJ]

Is it? Videos of Gutierrez, Armstrong, and Shane Doan doing what would be considered canvassing have been around for weeks. Granted, I'm not going to waste my day skipping through that audio clip to find yet another baseless Canadian speculation of the Coyotes moving to Houston, but what was 'new'?

You’re already wasting your time responding to things you’re not reading, you don’t have to skip around anything, I put in the post exactly where it’s discussed.

Your hockey ops staff should not be out canvassing. They should be doing hockey operations. But we also know the Coyotes are short-staffed in business ops.

 

[Stumbledore]

He should be looking at why Calgary and Alberta will be pumping nearly a billion dollars between them into a new barn (plus a similar district) for the Flames, while a little town of 166,000 can get it done for 1/5th of that and have the project itself pay for it.

Not much to look into. The upcoming election will be decided by the swing voters in Calgary. Giving the Flames a $300 million subsidy is just standard operating procedure when it comes to vote buying.

The pundits say that the NDP will form the next provincial government and "speculation" says their first order of business will be to "not-finalize" the agreement.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

You’re already wasting your time responding to things you’re not reading, you don’t have to skip around anything, I put in the post exactly where it’s discussed.

Your hockey ops staff should not be out canvassing. They should be doing hockey operations. But we also know the Coyotes are short-staffed in business ops.

James Carville? That you? I guar-on-tee!

 

[GKJ]

Sorry, I'm confused about who "We" refers to here.

I thought you were saying that what Frank Seravalli was saying was news and not speculation. I'm saying Seravalli sells a lot of speculation and is often proven wrong or full or bullshit.

If people already knew what he said, then you already knew. I didn’t know. You’ll have to spell out specifically how often he’s proven wrong or full of shit though, you don’t get to be president of the PWHA without having reasonable credibility.

 

[GKJ]

James Carville? That you? I guar-on-tee!

If I ever saw James Carville, I’d knock his tongue clean out of his mouth

 

[Dirty Old Man]

If I ever saw James Carville, I’d knock his tongue clean out of his mouth

This statement does not surprise me.

Obviously, the hockey ops staff in Arizona does feel they should be out canvassing. That you disagree with this, and that you posted that clip in the first place, thinking it was news, says more about you than about them. Which is fine.

 

[GKJ]

This statement does not surprise me.

Obviously, the hockey ops staff in Arizona does feel they should be out canvassing. That you disagree with this, and that you posted that clip in the first place, thinking it was news, says more about you than about them. Which is fine.

If they want to, then they do. But they shouldn’t have to. Why don’t you just say what you really want to say about what I think, I guarantee you’re wrong.

The fact that Houston has an NHL-capable arena, and is a market the NHL would be happy to be in, is public knowledge.

And he speculated that Houston is where they would land. He did not report it. Nobody has reported that because there are no teams currently looking to relocate.

But lets talk about Houston, since that's what was suggested.

The problem has always been Tilman Fertitta. He controls the Toyota Centre in Houston, and he's shown zero interest in spending $600-$800 million in buying an NHL franchise. I'm sure he'd be happy for the Coyotes to play in the Toyota Centre and pay him market-rate rent, but we know that the team can't survive that way - you need additional revenue streams.

Even if Fertitta had a change of heart and does want to buy a team - you can't negotiate and then close a deal of that magnitude in 2 weeks.

If relocation is ultimately what happens (and I've been burned too many times on the Coyotes to ever make that prediction again), the much more likely outcome is the Coyotes continue to play at Mullett next year. Meruelo continues to say they're looking at options, how they're happy to play at ASU, all the while in the meantime a relocation and/or sale of the franchise is negotiated behind closed doors, only to be announced around this time next year.

I do think playing at Mullett next year remains the most likely outcome. But the owners are getting sick of this and that could still drive the boat. If they think they can and want to execute a move after this, I also think they will do that, money always finds a way.

 

[TheLegend]

Per the MariCo county recorder.




Carefree AZ has a population of ~3800. So the turnout in Tempe is looking big.

 

[Tawnos]

No way the team can be relocated two months from now.

As mentioned Atlanta->Winnipeg was incredibly tight, and that was announced May 31. Two months from now would be the end of June. Training camps start in September, so that would give the team July and August to move.

Just think about what you need to do. I mean there's the obvious - you have to physically move the team and its assets to the new city, together with everyone involved moving themselves and their family.

But you have to hire a whole new staff, from ticket agents to marketing people to who knows what else. You have to run a season ticket drive. WInnipeg at least had the advantage that they had an AHL franchise back-end already in place. Soif Fertitta bought the team he could rely on the Rockets back-end, but anyone else would have to build that kind of thing from scratch.

I really wasn't thinking about any Houston owner buying the Coyotes besides Fertitta (or Smith if they go to SLC).

 

[JimAnchower]

Per the MariCo county recorder.




Carefree AZ has a population of ~3800. So the turnout in Tempe is looking big.

Nice to see Stephane Richer has moved to Arizona and is now a county recorder.

 

[Stumbledore]

Why don’t you just say what you really want to say about what I think, I guarantee you’re wrong.

If people already knew what he said, then you already knew. I didn’t know.

When people start talking like this, it's when I disengage and go do something useful.

Grabbing a nap comes to mind...

 

[Yukon Joe]

When people start talking like this, it's when I disengage and go do something useful.

Grabbing a nap comes to mind...

Maybe I'm just old but grabbing a nap is always useful...

 

[Boris Zubov]

Per the MariCo county recorder.




Carefree AZ has a population of ~3800. So the turnout in Tempe is looking big.

I'm curious, what does Carefree have to do with this? Why are their residents voting on a proposal in Tempe?

 

[Llama19]

I'm curious, what does Carefree have to do with this? Why are their residents voting on a proposal in Tempe?

Nothing...as they are also having a special election...

"On May 16, 2023 Carefree residents will have the opportunity to vote in a special election to determine the direction the Town will take in regard to fire and emergency medical services within the community. If voters approve this decision it will create a solvent and sustainable revenue stream to fund a transition to a more robust and dependable regional emergency response system called Automatic Aid."

Source: carefree.org/2023-special-election

 

[TheLegend]

I'm curious, what does Carefree have to do with this? Why are their residents voting on a proposal in Tempe?

It doesn’t but Maricopa County handles all City elections and Carefree happened to have one as well.

 

[TheLegend]

Two former Tempe mayors, brought some inside info about TED and some historical background of the site.

They also brought receipts.