CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[madhi19]

It’s mostly real:

- Arena was to be privately funded
- Tempe estimated $100m to cleanup the land, would end up costing $250m total for taxpayers when Tempe used bonds for the cleanup.
- The Tempe owned dump isn’t a risk to drinking water supplies, but rising water tables on the site due to the nearby Tempe Town Lake could cause contamination from the dump to spread outside the land parcel, increasing Tempe’s future legal risks and cleanup costs.

Will be very interesting to see what Tempe ultimately does with this land. The estimated cleanup costs are roughly double the value of the land after cleanup. I don’t believe Tempe could give the land away for “free”. So many legal risks for a developer to assume ownership and cleanup obligations.

Oddly, if Tempe did try to give the land away for free or pay a developer to take it we’d end up with a voter referendum that the city was “giving away land”, not understanding the negative value of that land.

People would choose not spending money to do something that will raise their taxes eventually 9 out of 10 times. Especially old people. It would be interesting to learn if they could access federal fund more easily if it not locked to a private development.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

NHL to Portland.. would be nice

 

[jkrdevil]

We saw Sarver not want the coyotes in the suns building. So I doubt any other nba owner is going to want to temporarily house the coyotes while another arena is built to compete with them.

So the coyotes realistically need to be sold to the nba owner of any of these markets in the us being mentioned.

See what the coyotes plans are.

Agreed in those situations. Though it may be a case where only a minority interest is originally sold but they have the right to increasingly buy shares over the years.

But the fallback option I’ve been thinking of that doesn’t require the team to be sold is KC. Though it wouldn’t be like Vegas or Seattle coming in where they had years to build the marketplace in anticipation of the team.

Always a possibility.

I don’t think the league will want to start that fight with the PA. They will have a home next year, even if it is a lame duck year at ASU as they finalize a new market.

 

[GreenHornet]

Their Facebook page was worse.

As an Atlanta fan having flashbacks to 2011, you have my sympathy.

 

[mouser]

People would choose not spending money to do something that will raise their taxes eventually 9 out of 10 times. Especially old people. It would be interesting to learn if they could access federal fund more easily if it not locked to a private development.

The TED proposal the “old people” vetoed wouldn‘t have raised their taxes.

One of the core nuances of this proposal was Tempe finding a way to get rid of the negative value land without imposing taxes and cleanup costs on their citizens. Instead transferring the cleanup obligation to a Community Facilities District where the costs are only paid by people who spend money at the new TED development.

The site is not currently eligible for any federal superfund money.

 

[Melrose Munch]

This is awful for the fans. The NHL is going to lose an expansion market over this.

Agreed in those situations. Though it may be a case where only a minority interest is originally sold but they have the right to increasingly buy shares over the years.

But the fallback option I’ve been thinking of that doesn’t require the team to be sold is KC. Though it wouldn’t be like Vegas or Seattle coming in where they had years to build the marketplace in anticipation of the team.


I don’t think the league will want to start that fight with the PA. They will have a home next year, even if it is a lame duck year at ASU as they finalize a new market.

NHL and Ferttita need to make peace. Houston would be easiest to swallow. KC is much smaller.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Losing this logo from the league is gonna hurt


:coyotes

 

[tarheelhockey]

for example... doesn't even say Arizona, just Coyotes.

Bingo. That's the sort of detail that is very carefully written before it gets released into the public.

That, and "We are going to review with the Coyotes what the options might be going forward", which has absolutely none of the usual cheerleading about being committed to remaining in the local community etc etc. It's just straight up, "we're going to see what our rights are and let you know".

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Remember this a few weeks ago from Jazz owner



One would think NHL had to have some planning in place in event this vote failed

Also NHL reportedly met with him

 

[Ernie]

The Coyotes had a perfectly good NHL arena that was funded by taxpayers.

But no, that wasn't good enough. They demanded more and more.

And now there will be no team in the market.

What a failure by the team, and frankly, its fans. Ate up everything that was served by Bettman and terrible owner after terrible owner.

Phoenix is a perfectly fine NHL market. But the place is toxic.

 

[madhi19]

The TED proposal the “old people” vetoed wouldn‘t have raised their taxes.

One of the core nuances of this proposal was Tempe finding a way to get rid of the negative value land without imposing taxes and cleanup costs on their citizens. Instead transferring the cleanup obligation to a Community Facilities District where the costs are only paid by people who spend money at the new TED development.

The nuance was likely lost on most voters. Also did the coyotes came up with some financial guarantees in case their end of the bargain goes tits up? Who picking up the tab if the special district sale taxes does not generate enough to pay for the clean up? What do you do if instead of $250 million it's $500? What is the interest rate on the bonds? When do they mature? These kind of deals have all sort of traps, and pitfall.

 

[GKJ]

 

[Llama19]

 

[LadyStanley]

Tempe voters reject plan for new Coyotes arena: Will team relocate?

The NHL will "review with the Coyotes what the options might be going forward."

theathletic.com

Athletic story.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

As I wrote earlier, a failure of this vote would be a terrible inditement of the Coyotes communications department.

While I still believe the yotes will remain next year, given the league and team's messaging, I am now moving to thinking next year will be the final year for the coyotes in Arizona.

The big turnout was a bad sign, as I thought. Damn - I thought it would be closer than that!

The read between the lines messaging is really bad though. Like, really bad. Like - Laying the groundwork for a relocation in the next week bad.

 

[StreetHawk]

Outspent 8 to 1. And not talking $80 mill to $10 mill. $2 mill to $250K. Biggest event that will determine the future of the franchise and they spend that little to get their message out?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Outspent 8 to 1. And not talking $80 mill to $10 mill. $2 mill to $250K. Biggest event that will determine the future of the franchise and they spend that little to get their message out?

I can't believe they couldn't find a million for this.

 

[GKJ]

Outspent 8 to 1. And not talking $80 mill to $10 mill. $2 mill to $250K. Biggest event that will determine the future of the franchise and they spend that little to get their message out?

Where’s the rest of the league on this to pitch in and help? Probably shows how much faith they had.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Well that's something.

I've long said that once upon a time I fiercely rooted for the Yotes to relocate, but since 2011 I've watched out of fascination, with no rooting interest one way or another.

And it seems the train wreck I can't turn away from will continue...

Sucks for Yotes fans. Though I certainly wouldn't predict an immediate relocation either.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Tempe will find out if this was the right decision 10 years from now. In the moment, it's impossible to say.

 

[StreetHawk]

Where’s the rest of the league on this to pitch in and help? Probably shows how much faith they had.

Hasn't the rest of the league done enough? This was for the future of the Arizona Coyotes. There were only 90K eligible voters.

If you boil it down to cost per eligible voter it was $22.22 to $2.78. If you calculate it based on voter turnout it would be something like $65 to like under $10.

 

[Ernie]

Tempe will find out if this was the right decision 10 years from now. In the moment, it's impossible to say.

How will they find out?

 

[GKJ]

Hasn't the rest of the league done enough? This was for the future of the Arizona Coyotes. There were only 90K eligible voters.

If you boil it down to cost per eligible voter it was $22.22 to $2.78. If you calculate it based on voter turnout it would be something like $65 to like under $10.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Owners will spend on players to not play, but can’t put in a half million bucks a piece to put a campaign together to make a problem go away?

Or Bettman is just that stupid on electoral politics somehow. Should excite the PA given who their director is.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Owners will spend on players to not play, but can’t put in a half million bucks a piece to put a campaign together to make a problem go away?

Or Bettman is just that stupid on electoral politics somehow. Should excite the PA given who their director is.

They paid Chychrun more than that to not play when they sat him out pending a trade. Either they were incompetent or over confident. Leaning towards incompetent.