CXLIX - FINAL thoughts on the Arizona Coyotes

[TheLegend]

We doing the chicken or the egg thing again?

Making dog food.

 

[Voight]

I mean, yes and no. It's over, the Coyotes are finally dead after being strung around for over a decade. The franchise didn't just relocate it has been technically disbanded, and is the first franchise to go properly defunct in some 50-odd years. This saga will be talked about until the end of time because the way it unfolded was genuinely a fascinating disasterpiece of incompetence. To that end, this is a bait and switch because I don't think the conversation should end about this non-existent team, and the prospect of a new expansion franchise. On the other, Coyotes relocation talk is finally over.

I wouldn't call them properly defunct, it's more of a Cleveland Browns type of thing for now.

 

[Headshot77]

I wouldn't call them properly defunct, it's more of a Cleveland Browns type of thing for now.

Didn't Meurelo already give up though? He set his sights on the AHL relocating to Reno.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Matthews, McDavid, or Eichel would've put the team on the map in AZ. With ownership that couldn't afford to pay for them and support pieces, it likely would've still flailed true.

What I am confident of though and folks don't have to agree with me and I don't care but if Bill Foley (or a similar type) had owned the Coyotes, and setup an arena in Phoenix the way he (and others) did in Vegas and if he ran the team in Phoenix the way he did in Vegas. I am confident the Coyotes would've been successful. It was a good enough market that competent ownership would've had success.

So here's a what-if conundrum....What if Foley owned the team & they started in Glendale? Is the team viable & profitable?

 

[TheLegend]

So here's a what-if conundrum....What if Foley owned the team & they started in Glendale? Is the team viable & profitable?

Rumor was Foley might have looked into Arizona and moved them to Vegas but preferred to build from the ground up.

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Glendale doesn’t work unless you own Westgate and the Coyotes. And neither were in great shape at the time. Bob Parsons ended up getting Westgate dirt cheap but wasn’t interested in being a pro franchise owner.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Rumor was Foley might have looked into Arizona and moved them to Vegas but preferred to build from the ground up.

NHL Franchise to Las Vegas: Latest Details Surrounding Potential Team

Billionaire William Foley has been linked to potentially bringing an NHL franchise to Las Vegas as the league explores the possibility. Continue for updates. Updates from Wednesday, Nov...

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Glendale doesn’t work unless you own Westgate and the Coyotes. And neither were in great shape at the time. Bob Parsons ended up getting Westgate dirt cheap but wasn’t interested in being a pro franchise owner.

I was around for the Foley rumor that had him taking the Yotes to Vegas. Always felt bogus & from what I recall it was never attributed to any legit sources.

You're moving the goalposts a little, but If you believe Glendale doesn't work unless Westgate is also owned by the same individual, then hockey returning to the area is not happening anytime soon, if ever, unless Ishbia bids for an expansion franchise & either renovates Footprint yet again or builds a new arena. My point is, if a team cannot stand on their own without an entertainment district, they really have no business being in the market.

Add in the fact that the combined costs for a franchise & a new entertainment district are going to approach $5B by the time this rolls around, the prospects for a new team are pretty bleak, IMO.

 

[Voight]

Didn't Meurelo already give up though? He set his sights on the AHL relocating to Reno.

He did, but the league still considers them inactive, as they hold onto their pipe dream of an NHL team there again.

Even though this was a relocation in all but name.

 

[TheLegend]

I was around for the Foley rumor that had him taking the Yotes to Vegas. Always felt bogus & from what I recall it was never attributed to any legit sources.

You're moving the goalposts a little, but If you believe Glendale doesn't work unless Westgate is also owned by the same individual, then hockey returning to the area is not happening anytime soon, if ever, unless Ishbia bids for an expansion franchise & either renovates Footprint yet again or builds a new arena. My point is, if a team cannot stand on their own without an entertainment district, they really have no business being in the market.

Add in the fact that the combined costs for a franchise & a new entertainment district are going to approach $5B by the time this rolls around, the prospects for a new team are pretty bleak, IMO.

Agreed...

But it's not just Glendale.... it's anywhere. It's getting harder and harder for pro sports teams to make it on just an arena alone. Especially in the smaller markets.

Ishiba isn't a guarantee either. He's got full control of Footprint, but spending another $1.2 billion for an NHL franchise isn't going to bring enough return to quantify it. There has been talk about Phoenix creating a large sports entertainment district downtown and Ishiba could be part of it but it's only talk.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

We doing the chicken or the egg thing again?

Not again, still.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

These owners didn't have money.. pure and simple

Move on. Even if Meruelo won the TED vote he was never getting that thing built.

 

[Shwan]

These owners didn't have money.. pure and simple

Move on. Even if Meruelo won the TED vote he was never getting that thing built.

Fact Check: True

Good thing Craig Morgan lied up a storm and whipped the Coyotes fan base up for those Tempe hearings to make fools out themselves

 

[Voight]

Fact Check: True

Good thing Craig Morgan lied up a storm and whipped the Coyotes fan base up for those Tempe hearings to make fools out themselves

He was never more than glorified PR guy for Mereulo.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

Fact Check: True

Good thing Craig Morgan lied up a storm and whipped the Coyotes fan base up for those Tempe hearings to make fools out themselves

I was at the June 2nd 2022 Council meeting and fist bumped Alex Meruelo and Junior.. I wish I didn't!

 

[voyageur]

Agreed...

But it's not just Glendale.... it's anywhere. It's getting harder and harder for pro sports teams to make it on just an arena alone. Especially in the smaller markets.

Ishiba isn't a guarantee either. He's got full control of Footprint, but spending another $1.2 billion for an NHL franchise isn't going to bring enough return to quantify it. There has been talk about Phoenix creating a large sports entertainment district downtown and Ishiba could be part of it but it's only talk.

I don't know why people think an expansion franchise is worth $1.2 billion. Just because the league sold an existing franchise for $1.2 billion doesn't mean an expansion team is worth that. Maybe the number is only $800 million, an increase from the last expansion team at $650 million, which was $500 million when Vegas was admitted. That's a number more in line with the bottom of the league valuations. Which is where you start, and the market and success dictates the growth. I can see a realistic possibility of both Atlanta and Arizona awarded franchises in the next couple of years, and Gary Bettman retiring, having only screwed over the markets of Quebec and Hartford, in his tenure, which were unwanted markets when they were accepted to the NHL. Quebec may not have the votes to get in, and Hartford isn't even on the radar anymore.