CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[Ernie]

So no, Auston Matthews doesn't justify the Coyotes in totality. But the programs that the Coyotes set up, the infrastructure, what has been built already? That's what matters more in my eyes.

Sure but the league could fund minor hockey in Arizona for a fraction of what the league subsidizes the Coyotes for.

I'm not really arguing against it though as I think the league's expansion strategy generally has been a success, though not in Phoenix, but that's more of a symptom of consistently terrible ownership.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

Sure but the league could fund minor hockey in Arizona for a fraction of what the league subsidizes the Coyotes for.

I'm not really arguing against it though as I think the league's expansion strategy generally has been a success, though not in Phoenix, but that's more of a symptom of consistently terrible ownership.

How is the league subsidizing the Coyotes? As opposed to other organizations?

 

[Ernie]

How is the league subsidizing the Coyotes? As opposed to other organizations?

They subsidize other organizations too, but the Coyotes bring very little back. I guess Austin Matthews? Can't really think of any benefits this franchise has brought the league.

 

[Stumbledore]

Heh yeah, Raptors have fans all across Canada, the Leafs only appeal to people who grew up in Ontario.

If anything, Stumbledore lives in a bubble and doesn't understand how limited the Leafs appeal is across Canada, overall there are more people who hate them than there are fans.

If anything, Stumbledore lives in Winnipeg (hey, somebody has to live here) and attends NHL games in all 4 western cities and sees thousands of fans showing up in their Leafs' jerseys.

If you want to believe the Leafs appeal only to people in/from Ontario, go ahead. Won't be the first time you've been wrong.

 

[Major4Boarding]

So where are we at with the grassroots-level efforts to derail this thing?

 

[Ernie]

If anything, Stumbledore lives in Winnipeg (hey, somebody has to live here) and attends NHL games in all 4 western cities and sees thousands of fans showing up in their Leafs' jerseys.

If you want to believe the Leafs appeal only to people in/from Ontario, go ahead. Won't be the first time you've been wrong.

I've yet to meet a Leafs fan who didn't grow up there. It would be pretty pathetic to be a Leafs fan otherwise. Like why choose such a loser franchise?

 

[BMN]

Not so strong on the reading comprehension, hey?

I said people who grew up in Ontario. I've yet to meet a Leafs fan who didn't grow up there.

You've never met anyone from Atlantic Canada in your life? (PS I'm the one who pointed out lots of Canadians would list the Leafs as their least favourite team. But also acting like their fanbase outside of Ontario-born is small is.......dodgy).

 

[Ernie]

You've never met anyone from Atlantic Canada in your life? (PS I'm the one who pointed out lots of Canadians would list the Leafs as their least favourite team. But also acting like their fanbase outside of Ontario-born is small is.......dodgy).

I guess some people from Atlantic Canada would be fans? But even then that's a pretty tiny population comparatively.

Every western city has tons of Ontario transplants in it, which is why there are Leafs fans at games.

 

[TheLegend]

So where are we at with the grassroots-level efforts to derail this thing?

Not much….

There’s a small PAC called “Democracy for Tempe” formed by a few local NIMBY types who also have former councilwoman Lauren Kuby helping with the organizing.

Kuby ran unsuccessfully for a state commission job so she’s got time on her hands. She’s also the one who was contacted by a Glendale city councilman months prior to the RFP being issued with the Katie Strang articles attached in an attempt to toss a monkey wrench into negotiations back then. Also the one who got Dunn and Bradstreet to come up with their “overview” of Meruelo’s finances at the June 6 council meeting.

But enough of that…

They operate under the name “Tempe1st” (which was another PAC that disbanded after the last election) for their official website. Opened FB and Twitter accounts.

Right now they’re beating the old “No gifts for billionaires” drum. “Shady people” etc.

Going door to door with yards signs and such. Neighborhood meets and greets. Kuby is using her social media account to try boosting the message.

Meruelo set up a PAC called TempeWins. It’s being financed through Bluebird (~$250K budget so far). I think it’s being headed by a Tempe realtor. They just started countering some of the messaging points Tempe1st has been running for the last couple of weeks.

Expecting this all to heat up in the coming weeks.

 

[gstommylee]

The anti temp arena group is also intentionally misrepresenting the TED as tax payers are paying for all of it on purpose. When reality, the only thing Tempe is pay for is something that they'll always end up having to pay for no matter what goes there but actually telling the truth goes against their agenda. Can't wait for them to all for a different project for that land and be all for it when it also require the city to pay for cleaning up the land.

City of tempe and the coyotes need to call them out on the anti ted group's misleading, lying tactics.

 

[TheLegend]

The anti temp arena group is also intentionally misrepresenting the TED as tax payers are paying for all of it on purpose. When reality, the only thing Tempe is pay for is something that they'll always end up having to pay for no matter what goes there but actually telling the truth goes against their agenda. Can't wait for them to all for a different project for that land and be all for it when it also require the city to pay for cleaning up the land.

City of tempe and the coyotes need to call them out on the anti ted group's misleading, lying tactics.

It’s being done.

Xavier Gutierrez was on the PHNX_Coyotes video podcast this morning describing how they’re approaching it.

 

[Headshot77]

God this thread has been a mess these last like 5 pages. We desperately need some arena news to talk about.

Also, it's blatantly obvious the plan with the Yotes is to spend as little as possible and amass a truck load of draft capital as possible to flip the switch and be competitive 4 years from now when their arena is ready. There's no real point in being competitive when you live in a 5,000 seat arena. You won't see any profits from it in the form of ticket revenue. Is that a problem? I guess to some people it is a personal insult that the Coyotes aren't really trying to win. I don't see a problem with it. IMO it's good business. Let them cook.

 

[awfulwaffle]

God this thread has been a mess these last like 5 pages. We desperately need some arena news to talk about.

Also, it's blatantly obvious the plan with the Yotes is to spend as little as possible and amass a truck load of draft capital as possible to flip the switch and be competitive 4 years from now when their arena is ready. There's no real point in being competitive when you live in a 5,000 seat arena. You won't see any profits from it in the form of ticket revenue. Is that a problem? I guess to some people it is a personal insult that the Coyotes aren't really trying to win. I don't see a problem with it. IMO it's good business. Let them cook.

The best part is, we are doing better than some teams that play in a bigger arena and spending more money!

 

[Stumbledore]

the Coyotes aren't really trying to win. I don't see a problem with it. IMO it's good business. Let them cook.

You don't see a problem with supporting a team that isn't trying to win?

Interesting.

 

[KevFu]

Not when everyone knows its temporary. You want them to go ham on free agents and trades to try and make the playoffs... so they can sell more tickets? They literally can't sell a 5001st ticket.

It's 100% the right play. Don't be obtuse, their fans aren't stupid.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Not when everyone knows its temporary. You want them to go ham on free agents and trades to try and make the playoffs... so they can sell more tickets? They literally can't sell a 5001st ticket.

It's 100% the right play. Don't be obtuse, their fans aren't stupid.

Your point isn't as solid as you think it is. Although I try to look at this from both sides... outsiders & fans of the Yotes, 11 years going on 15 years isn't what I would describe as temporary. Bill Armstrong made a statement the other day that they're looking at being competitive in 6-7 years from now. That would be 17 years since the last time they made the playoffs. That's bordering on insanity at this point. I think we can all agree that In order for the market to be viable, the team needs to be a consistent winner. Phoenix has proven this with EVERY team from every major sport.

It's going to be extremely interesting around here when year 2 of the new arena (TED) rolls around & the attendance figures are a sore subject once it becomes obvious that the west valley wasn't the roadblock to success that Gary Bettman claimed it was.

 

[TheLegend]

Your point isn't as solid as you think it is. Although I try to look at this from both sides... outsiders & fans of the Yotes, 11 years going on 15 years isn't what I would describe as temporary. Bill Armstrong made a statement the other day that they're looking at being competitive in 6-7 years from now. That would be 17 years since the last time they made the playoffs. That's bordering on insanity at this point. I think we can all agree that In order for the market to be viable, the team needs to be a consistent winner. Phoenix has proven this with EVERY team from every major sport.

It's going to be extremely interesting around here when year 2 of the new arena (TED) rolls around & the attendance figures are a sore subject once it becomes obvious that the west valley wasn't the roadblock to success that Gary Bettman claimed it was.

Hate to break this to you but as much as everyone likes to go all crazy on counting empty seats, the real roadblock in the West Valley was not attendance.

Meruelo knew this and that’s why he’s not building just an arena.

 

[TheLegend]

You don't see a problem with supporting a team that isn't trying to win?

Interesting.

Well a counterpoint would be if they aren’t trying to win they’re sure screwing that up given they possess an overall winning record at home.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Hate to break this to you but as much as everyone likes to go all crazy on counting empty seats, the real roadblock in the West Valley was not attendance.

Meruelo knew this and that’s why he’s not building just an arena.

Yeah....haven't we heard this story before from people associated with the Coyotes?

 

[TheLegend]

Yeah....haven't we heard this story before from people associated with the Coyotes?

Westgate was built on the premise that the Coyotes were a core part of it, and that’s what Meruelo intends to do as well.

But the difference is Steve Ellman never intended to keep the Coyotes. He was going to build out Westgate and then sell it all including the Coyotes for just north of $1 billion. Coyotes were a means to an end and between he and Jerry Moyes they operated it that way.

I don’t see Meruelo doing this. He’s never sold an asset he’s acquired in his life as far as I’ve been able find.

But I understand your point.. it is unceasingly familiar.

 

[Headshot77]

You don't see a problem with supporting a team that isn't trying to win?

Interesting.

The Coyotes are at least still theoretically trying to win in the long run. That's the difference. If they were pulling a Pittsburgh Pirates and deliberately trying to be a AAA team forever then that would be an entirely different matter.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Hate to break this to you but as much as everyone likes to go all crazy on counting empty seats, the real roadblock in the West Valley was not attendance.

Meruelo knew this and that’s why he’s not building just an arena.

I agree with you, as we both know the team doesn't have enough fans valley-wide to be financially viable on their own. Can we finally put to bed this east valley/west valley myth that location was the problem or the saving grace?

 

[Boris Zubov]

The Coyotes are at least still theoretically trying to win in the long run. That's the difference. If they were pulling a Pittsburgh Pirates and deliberately trying to be a AAA team forever then that would be an entirely different matter.

So no playoffs now for 11 years with no end in sight...Armstrong says they're going to be rebuilding for at least SIX more years. Their roster for the foreseeable future IS an AHL roster. Fail to see your point here.

 

[Stumbledore]

Well a counterpoint would be if they aren’t trying to win they’re sure screwing that up given they possess an overall winning record at home.

I'm just bemused at the concept of professional athletes deliberately trying not to win.

Apart from all the legalities involved and the impact of the wagering world, I can't get my head around the idea of spending money to go and see a team that's not trying to win.

 

[KevFu]

I'm just bemused at the concept of professional athletes deliberately trying not to win.

Apart from all the legalities involved and the impact of the wagering world, I can't get my head around the idea of spending money to go and see a team that's not trying to win.

Well, your "professional athletes not trying to win" is a totally different thing. That's not happening. Each Coyotes player is sure trying to win.

The management of the Coyotes is not devoting money and future draft picks into the best current team possible. They're focused on long-term future.