Im not here to argue. There are not 4600 fans at a Coyote game. That is all.
CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena
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mouser
Business of Hockey
I watched a Toronto home game recently and thought the stands were 15-20% empty on average.
Why weren’t the seats 100% full every time I got a good camera angle on the fans? All those tickets were sold.
I am glad they were sold. Same as I am if they are sold in Tempe. Maybe toronto isn't the best comparison.
The thing is I haven't read it. And I don't care to. Which leads average person to already have a perspective.
The good coin toss is .....
I am extremely knowledgeable in this. I don't need an article or hack job.
The coyotes attendance is seat wise sold out. There are NOT 4600 fans there.
Just say " no" there are not.
Concessions ..blah blah etc. That's all money.
It is not a full arena. Not even close.
Your hypocrisy in supporting people who don't live in Phoenix, not his.
It's not that hard to follow
"You people don't understand the market," except for when we agree with you.
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mouser
Business of Hockey
So in summary you don’t understand what the word hypocrisy means.
He's not acting in contradiction to what he's stated?
Come on mouser, give it another shot.
If you want to argue the failings of this whole plan, please don't use the argument of sold vs showing up attendance as it makes us anti-Coyotes people look bad. Every team can have that issue for many reasons on any given night.
Stick to more tangible arguments like how them making more money now than they were in Glendale is like being proud of getting the best grade in the class when they got 37% because that just means instead of them losing 25 million dollars a year they might only be losing 21 million dollars a year on top of the hundreds of millions they lost over the past decade plus and will continue to lose tens of millions more and the amount of money in this whole project doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
*I acknowledge the numbers aren't real as I pulled them out of a hat because all we really know is they lose a lot of money and it's just to emphasize them lose a little less than the a lot they lose.
Stick to more tangible arguments like how them making more money now than they were in Glendale is like being proud of getting the best grade in the class when they got 37% because that just means instead of them losing 25 million dollars a year they might only be losing 21 million dollars a year on top of the hundreds of millions they lost over the past decade plus and will continue to lose tens of millions more and the amount of money in this whole project doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
*I acknowledge the numbers aren't real as I pulled them out of a hat because all we really know is they lose a lot of money and it's just to emphasize them lose a little less than the a lot they lose.
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My question is....
Is it possible to resell tickets for the games in Tempe? If not, then the empty seats are completely reasonable, and the situation is somewhat similar to a lot of places, in which corporate tickets are not completely used.
However, if it is possible to re-sell....then it would seem that a portion of those unused seats might well go to interested parties, if there were interested parties.
IOW, the argument about sold versus used seats is not 'current economic' issue. It's an argument about the general amount of interest which exists in the entire market. That's still a valid discussion.....
"How many people really are interested? Can the franchise increase that number, especially if, as predicted in many places, a recession is coming?"
While these are interesting and valid questions, they do not really have much to do with the question of "Will the franchise remain in the Valley?" Right now, that questions certainly depends much more on the referendum than it does on anything else.
Is it possible to resell tickets for the games in Tempe? If not, then the empty seats are completely reasonable, and the situation is somewhat similar to a lot of places, in which corporate tickets are not completely used.
However, if it is possible to re-sell....then it would seem that a portion of those unused seats might well go to interested parties, if there were interested parties.
IOW, the argument about sold versus used seats is not 'current economic' issue. It's an argument about the general amount of interest which exists in the entire market. That's still a valid discussion.....
"How many people really are interested? Can the franchise increase that number, especially if, as predicted in many places, a recession is coming?"
While these are interesting and valid questions, they do not really have much to do with the question of "Will the franchise remain in the Valley?" Right now, that questions certainly depends much more on the referendum than it does on anything else.
However....
If the tickets are purchased, (great), but MANY people are not actually going, is there intrest?
Or does a company buy tickets to buy tickets. If you have 100 employees, and you buy just say, a block of four seats, and not one of these seats are used.
That indicates no interest. Not every one of these 100 employees are busy every single game.
That's the catch.
Free tickets from the "boss" should be an easy seat filler. Spend 100 on anything you want, you got free tickets.
But none of that is happening with those (as example) four empty seats.
@Devils 3silverones
This is exactly my point. While it may or may not show how much interest there is, that fact alone (whether or not there is interest) doesn't mean one thing, as long as the referendum passes. The piece of the new development which is going to keep the franchise viable and make the money is everything else besides the team. The next few years do not really matter, as long as the referendum passes.
As has been stated many times, if the referendum does not pass, then we have a big problem in the Valley. At that point, Bettman and Meruelo likely start looking more at things like "how much interest do we really have in this market" and whether or not there is actually another option of a location, etc.
But, first things first. Referendum.
I get ya, I do.
To your point, do people want a new toy because its a new toy?
Or do they want a new toy they will play with.
16000 seats ain't nothing to sneeze at.
4600 is. And there is plenty of room.
Referendum, doesn't address the issue.
More people want a new toy as opposed to not having a toy.
Even though the toys in the box , aren't appreciated.
This isn't just a sports thing.
There will be 3 great areans, multiple facilites, and general AZ to deal with.
Im not against it.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
They can be resold.
You could go on the Coyotes sight right now TicketMaster shows plenty of “certified resell” seats. The unique thing I noticed is most are all in the same location across the arena.
Plus you’ll also see a number of seats that are designated regular and those are part of the inventory the Coyotes held back for walk up.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Optics don’t pay the bills.
An old “excuse” for when there were empty seats in Toronto was “Oh they’re all back at the sushi bar talking business”.
Well Mullett also has a club area behind the seating that many of the seat holders have access too. A couple of posters in our forum have said themselves spent a lot of the game in that area rather than their seat. They also said the club area is well occupied too.
Does it mean all of those empty seats at Mullett represent people watching from the back area? I wouldn’t know (since I’ve yet to be there) and there’s a good chance it doesn’t.
But as @MNNumbers pointed out the real issue at the moment is the referendum.
You can continue to bluster about those optics all you want to.
But optics still don’t pay the bills.
Ok. Om not blustering about anything..
If by optics, roughly 1000 people (visually from every TV angle) are at a club suite or concessions, great!
What you never say is, yes, they aren't selling out the Mullett.
Toronto doesn't, LA doesnt, Minnesota doesn't.
There are not 4600 fans at the Coyotes games.
This isn't a p match. I want them to stay.
Inaccurate accounts of how their attendance should be apart of BoH. The referendum, may lead more to the new toy. Should it?
Good lord...mts place whatever it is had a club space budzone or something, that holds that many people missing from prime seats.
The people are not here.
You are a smart person, you just can't say things that upset you.
Bill paying might not be the property angle btw. Optics should kinda be.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Why should I be upset over something I have absolutely no control over? When I’m watching games I don’t bother trying to count the number of unoccupied seats there are. Nor do I care what jerseys those who are sitting in a seat are wearing.
You’re really trying way too hard to make something out of this.
Of course I am, as soon as a point is brought up, that actually makes sense., you avoid and deflect.
Just admit the team is not selling the rink out!!! lol.
I don't have to make something out of any of this.
The show writes itself.
Geeze. The hi horse crap doesn't work on basic "optics".
New posters can see that. You should be able to.
Isn’t ”sell“ the key word here? Just because a seat is empty, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been sold. And often, you can’t even tell by looking at Ticketmaster (or whoever handles a team’s ticket sales) because they often allow sold tickets to be listed for resale (right along side actual unsold tickets). That being said, I honestly don’t know whether the Coyotes are selling all 4600 seats or not.
And can you explain to me why this optic of empty seats is so important to you? What do you think it means? Now, it may have been stated and I missed it. If so, I apologize.
Sell is absolutely key. Im glad the seats are sold.
The optics of "this" club should be very important.
Being evicted from one arena, playing in a collage arena, and asking a city to build a NEW arena.
If they didn't do well in previous arena, they can't fill current 4600 seat arena, what OS the expectation for a new rink?
Those are optics.
Again, I want the team to stay.
There just aren't many hints as to why they should.
It is very hard to keep coming up for valid reasons.
I enjoy the talk, I don't take stuff personally. It is a chat forum.
So, it sounds like what you really want your opponents (in this argument) to admit is that the mere perception of Mullet Arena not selling out could cause some Tempe residents to question whether or not they should support the referendum.
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
Bingo. Attempting to sow discontent. Which is what so many have been trying to do in here for so long. In this case, literally attempting to influence an election, in case you ever wondered why something like that might happen...
AZDesertKnight
Deactivated Coyotes Fan
Going to games at Mullett, there are empty seats.. because a shitton of people are on the concourse hanging out. great views up there
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Evicted..... because they wouldn't sign a new long term lease of at least 15 years (that's on the record, btw)
The Coyotes are building that arena. The city is only covering the infrastructure costs. Just like any city would for any other type of project. And even that is limited to the within TED itself (read the plan.... it's all there... and been well documented by the local media)
Paid up front in full to play at ASU for the next three years (plus paying another $35 million, also up front, to build the necessary add ons)... also documented in the media.
Three of the last four seasons at GRA (now DDA) saw their attendance increasing. Partly due to signing known players such as Phil Kessel and Taylor Hall, and party due to the team actually in contention for the playoffs for the first time in nearly 10 years. BTW their first three years in Glendale, attendance exceeded that from any year they played downtown. Coyotes average attendance in those days was in the middle of the entire league.
You want to be all about optics??? Then you need to look a little farther than what you only want to look at..
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TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Great!! But you're also trying to amplify only the bad things and none of the right things.
Have the Coyotes made mistakes?? Sure.... Plenty of them. But I'm not going to overlook or ignore the things which they do right.
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