CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[MNNumbers]

I'm completely unsure how to put this together, but was there not a quickly arranged Tempe CC session something like 2 weeks ago - executive only - concerning the Yotes' project? And, wasn't there some thought that the appearance of a such a meeting meant that the TED was going to get fast-tracked? And, since then there has been one open CC meeting with nothing about the Yotes (maybe I am wrong about that?). And, is there a meeting Thursday, and the Yotes are not on the agenda?

How does this go together? I really don't care what happens here. I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

Thanks for confirmation.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm completely unsure how to put this together, but was there not a quickly arranged Tempe CC session something like 2 weeks ago - executive only - concerning the Yotes' project? And, wasn't there some thought that the appearance of a such a meeting meant that the TED was going to get fast-tracked? And, since then there has been one open CC meeting with nothing about the Yotes (maybe I am wrong about that?). And, is there a meeting Thursday, and the Yotes are not on the agenda?

How does this go together? I really don't care what happens here. I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

Thanks for confirmation.

There was an executive session.

A reminder that Glendale held a whole bunch of similar sessions all during the Ellman, NHL, IA and Meruelo days at GRA/DDA.

So if you’re trying to read the megathread tea leaves here be my guest.

AFAIC anything is possible right now.

 

[MNNumbers]

There was an executive session.

A reminder that Glendale held a whole bunch of similar sessions all during the Ellman, NHL, IA and Meruelo days at GRA/DDA.

So if you’re trying to read the megathread tea leaves here be my guest.

AFAIC anything is possible right now.

I'm not reading any tea leaves. I'm only thinking in my mind, and I would love to be shown that I am wrong about this, that the present situation doesn't suggest that Tempe is in any hurry on this at all.

And, I suppose, if that is true, that it is probably wise on their part to be careful.

Not suggesting that it either passes or fails. I'm only reasoning right now that it isn't a 'rush' idea for the TCC

 

[TheLegend]

I'm not reading any tea leaves. I'm only thinking in my mind, and I would love to be shown that I am wrong about this, that the present situation doesn't suggest that Tempe is in any hurry on this at all.

And, I suppose, if that is true, that it is probably wise on their part to be careful.

Not suggesting that it either passes or fails. I'm only reasoning right now that it isn't a 'rush' idea for the TCC

Apologies….

I was speaking in general terms and didn’t make that clear.

The general thought is they (Tempe/Coyotes) want to get this process wrapped up (one way or another) by Halloween. Tempe wants that because it allows for maximum public input and Meruelo has the be concerned about interest rates going up driving the price tag much higher.

It’s actually surprising that Gutierrez (or anyone from the Coyotes) would even mention who was underwriting any bonds in for the project when Tempe has gone back to keeping things under wraps until the next public session.

Kinda like…. it’s something to consider but not really an earth shattering moment. Would be good to hear from someone who actually attended.

 

[MNNumbers]

Apologies….

I was speaking in general terms and didn’t make that clear.

The general thought is they (Tempe/Coyotes) want to get this process wrapped up (one way or another) by Halloween. Tempe wants that because it allows for maximum public input and Meruelo has the be concerned about interest rates going up driving the price tag much higher.

It’s actually surprising that Gutierrez (or anyone from the Coyotes) would even mention who was underwriting any bonds in for the project when Tempe has gone back to keeping things under wraps until the next public session.

Kinda like…. it’s something to consider but not really an earth shattering moment. Would be good to hear from someone who actually attended.

My apologies. I wasn't connecting my thought about, for example, this Thursday's TCC meeting, with the meeting Llama referenced. It's two different subjects in my mind. I'm not really thinking about who is going to do their bonds. That's an internal thing. Llama might think that their choice won't be accepted well by the city of Tempe, if there is some risk there, but I am not sure it is possible to make that connection.

Rather, I'm just trying to put together any reasons I can why the matter is not on the TCC agenda.

 

[aqib]

Apologies….

I was speaking in general terms and didn’t make that clear.

The general thought is they (Tempe/Coyotes) want to get this process wrapped up (one way or another) by Halloween. Tempe wants that because it allows for maximum public input and Meruelo has the be concerned about interest rates going up driving the price tag much higher.

It’s actually surprising that Gutierrez (or anyone from the Coyotes) would even mention who was underwriting any bonds in for the project when Tempe has gone back to keeping things under wraps until the next public session.

Kinda like…. it’s something to consider but not really an earth shattering moment. Would be good to hear from someone who actually attended.

Nah it makes sense to show that they really do have their ducks in a row. Its the same as naming an architect or or general contractor for construction.

 

[TheLegend]

Well this should quiet the whining about center ice logos….

Went in this afternoon.

 

[gstommylee]

This may bold well if tempe doesn't happen and the suns new majority owner is hockey friendly.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

This may bold well if tempe doesn't happen and the suns new majority owner is hockey friendly.

depends on if the arena goes with that... by that point Tempe is already going by the time this is completed, that's like saying Seattle is retrofitting Climate Pledge Arena for a 3rd time in less than 5 years rather than replacing it outright..... Footprint.com Arena as it's now known as isn't hockey capatible, no matter who the next owner is and whether there hockey friendly or not.... is Arizona ready to replace that arena to make it capatible to attract events that they don't already have, nevermind the competition from Chase Field and other arenas in Phoenix metro, such as GCU

 

[gstommylee]

depends on if the arena goes with that... by that point Tempe is already going by the time this is completed, that's like saying Seattle is retrofitting Climate Pledge Arena for a 3rd time in less than 5 years rather than replacing it outright..... Footprint.com Arena as it's now known as isn't hockey capatible, no matter who the next owner is and whether there hockey friendly or not.... is Arizona ready to replace that arena to make it capatible to attract events that they don't already have, nevermind the competition from Chase Field and other arenas in Phoenix metro, such as GCU

I said If tempe arena plan doesn't happen. What's prevented the yotes from playing in that arena was Shaver. Yes its going to require renovations but it gives them a possibility.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I said If tempe arena plan doesn't happen. What's prevented the yotes from playing in that arena was Shaver. Yes its going to require renovations but it gives them a possibility.

and the arena wasn't hockey capatible when the franchise arrived, tommy, remember that piece... it's not likely the Coyotes are returning to downtown Phoenix as a sole tenant, which they still wouldn't be no matter WHO owns the Suns/Mercury.... are they not co-tenants at ASU.... AFTER Glendale essentially blew up add DDA to the competition for events in Phoenix.... just like Seattle where you have multiple arenas competing for events....

 

[Melrose Munch]

Merullo needs to buy the Suns and move them to Tempe. More dates are taken up. Guarantees Tempe will be built. Do it!

 

[gstommylee]

and the arena wasn't hockey capatible when the franchise arrived, tommy, remember that piece... it's not likely the Coyotes are returning to downtown Phoenix as a sole tenant, which they still wouldn't be no matter WHO owns the Suns/Mercury.... are they not co-tenants at ASU.... AFTER Glendale essentially blew up add DDA to the competition for events in Phoenix.... just like Seattle where you have multiple arenas competing for events....

dude listen to what i bloody said. AGAIN I SAID If nothing works out elsewhere and it falls down to doing renovations to the main arena in phx. Do not ulimately dismiss it as a possibility.

Yes it does matter who owns the suns/mercury, if those two franchise had a more NHL friendly owner the recent renovations could have very well made it NHL ready with the coyotes playing there instead.

Remember why Seattle didn't have a NHL team in the 90's case the late sonics owner at the time didn't want a NHL team playing in Seattle.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Merullo needs to buy the Suns and move them to Tempe. More dates are taken up. Guarantees Tempe will be built. Do it!

NOPE, Melrose because you're adding the Mercury in any transaction....Only Connecticut is privately held in that league.... not even Vegas IS.... tied in w/ the Raiders ownership

 

[TheLegend]

Merullo needs to buy the Suns and move them to Tempe. More dates are taken up. Guarantees Tempe will be built. Do it!

Coyotes CEO Gutierrez indicated Meruelo was looking to buy another pro franchise to play at TED.

Suns are going to be out of reach for him. It's just not there given the make up of the minority owners. Plus you have Bob Iger (formerly Disney) and Fenway Sports who both have an interest in the franchise.

But that doesn't rule out buying the WNBA Mercury, or the Arizona Rattlers IFL franchise.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

dude listen to what i bloody said. AGAIN I SAID If nothing works out elsewhere and it falls down to doing renovations to the main arena in phx. Do not ulimately dismiss it as a possibility.

Yes it does matter who owns the suns/mercury, if those two franchise had a more NHL friendly owner the recent renovations could have very well made it NHL ready with the coyotes playing there instead.

Remember why Seattle didn't have a NHL team in the 90's case the late sonics owner at the time didn't want a NHL team playing in Seattle.

nope.... because if that were the case, tommy.... why were the Coyotes looking at Glendale, and now Tempe, to be their base once the arrangement ends at ASU....

Seattle has had the same arena how many years..... and why has it not been replaced but renovated, not once, but twice.... which affected the Sonics in the late 1970s, because the Tacoma Dome had to be implemented.... the same when CPA was renovated the 2nd time.... where was the Storm not in Seattle, but outside the metro

 

[TheLegend]

dude listen to what i bloody said. AGAIN I SAID If nothing works out elsewhere and it falls down to doing renovations to the main arena in phx. Do not ulimately dismiss it as a possibility.

Yes it does matter who owns the suns/mercury, if those two franchise had a more NHL friendly owner the recent renovations could have very well made it NHL ready with the coyotes playing there instead.

Remember why Seattle didn't have a NHL team in the 90's case the late sonics owner at the time didn't want a NHL team playing in Seattle.

Tommy..... renovating Footprint Arena just isn't feasible without several things happening and they're all expensive. It would be cheaper to build a brand new one at another site.

Plus.... it's still owned by the City of Phoenix and they had enough problems getting the recent renovations done.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Coyotes CEO Gutierrez indicated Meruelo was looking to buy another pro franchise to play at TED.

Suns are going to be out of reach for him. It's just not there given the make up of the minority owners. Plus you have Bob Iger (formerly Disney) and Fenway Sports who both have an interest in the franchise.

But that doesn't rule out buying the WNBA Mercury, or the Arizona Rattlers IFL franchise.

NOPE, Melrose because you're adding the Mercury in any transaction....Only Connecticut is privately held in that league.... not even Vegas IS.... tied in w/ the Raiders ownership

Is there a way to raise capital to buy out the minority owners?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Is there a way to raise capital to buy out the minority owners?

probably not in the way you're thinking.... why is Sarver employing this strategy now days after it was announced he cannot operate either team in Phoenix for at least a year

 

[TheLegend]

Is there a way to raise capital to buy out the minority owners?

Not likely.

Sarver's share of the Suns according to reports is 35%. Which makes him the largest stake holder and managing partner. AFAIK There's nothing to stop one or more of the minority owners from stepping up and buying his shares. And there are a couple who have the means to do it.

[Edit] And I have to correct myself.....

 

[KevFu]

So does this Sarver thing with the NBA make a return to Phoenix possible now or is that arena no bueno for hockey? Would it be faster to put in an ice plant there than building an arena in Tempe? Would Tempe still be a more desirable location?

People hear "renovations" and get all kinds of ideas in their head. You can only renovate around the "bones" of place. "Good bones" are what matters. The Downtown Arena has BASKETBALL Bones, and not Hockey Bones. You can't cram NHL hockey in there on more than a temporary basis.

NOW, the idea of Coyotes/Suns having the same owners... that's something to root for, because it makes arena situations a lot easier going forward. The opposition to the Coyotes arena comes from the people invested in the downtown arena. Leasing a building from another sports owner leeches revenues from the franchise.

Ideally, you'd have three different majority owners for three franchises, who are also minority owners of the other two: Meruelo (Coyotes), Ken Kendrick (DBacks) and TBA (Suns). That way, they can work together on faculties plans. Because the DBacks have an "old" stadium that was built to 90s specs, which is "too big" for them, and the roof has issues (all MLB retractable roofs have issues). The basketball arena really isn't a modern revenue-stream building despite the best efforts of renovations and keeping it fresh.

 

[Yukon Joe]

People hear "renovations" and get all kinds of ideas in their head. You can only renovate around the "bones" of place. "Good bones" are what matters. The Downtown Arena has BASKETBALL Bones, and not Hockey Bones. You can't cram NHL hockey in there on more than a temporary basis.

NOW, the idea of Coyotes/Suns having the same owners... that's something to root for, because it makes arena situations a lot easier going forward. The opposition to the Coyotes arena comes from the people invested in the downtown arena. Leasing a building from another sports owner leeches revenues from the franchise.

If you want to get pedantic you can change the "bones" of an arena if you pay enough money. The "renovations" on Climate Pledge Arena (nee Key Arena) completely changed the layout. They also cost over one billion dollars.

The idea of the Suns and Coyotes having the same owners is a good one. They could either completely renovate Footprint center, or design the new Tempe arena with both teams in mind. The question though is who would own them. I don't think Meruelo has the financial capacity: a NBA franchise is worth at least $1 billion, and Meruelo's net worth is only $2 billion. And if someone else was going to step up and buy the Coyotes, why haven't they done so before?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

If you want to get pedantic you can change the "bones" of an arena if you pay enough money. The "renovations" on Climate Pledge Arena (nee Key Arena) completely changed the layout. They also cost over one billion dollars.

The idea of the Suns and Coyotes having the same owners is a good one. They could either completely renovate Footprint center, or design the new Tempe arena with both teams in mind. The question though is who would own them. I don't think Meruelo has the financial capacity: a NBA franchise is worth at least $1 billion, and Meruelo's net worth is only $2 billion. And if someone else was going to step up and buy the Coyotes, why haven't they done so before?

depends on what the Mercury are valued at ,solely YJ.... it's already been determined that it's unlikely Meruelo will become the majority owner of the Suns if there's a myriad of minority shares

 

[JimAnchower]

This may bold well if tempe doesn't happen and the suns new majority owner is hockey friendly.

They just spent $230 million renovating the Footprint Center. It wasn't built for hockey before and it still isn't.

 

[JimAnchower]

Not likely.

Sarver's share of the Suns according to reports is 35%. Which makes him the largest stake holder and managing partner. AFAIK There's nothing to stop one or more of the minority owners from stepping up and buying his shares. And there are a couple who have the means to do it.

[Edit] And I have to correct myself.....

Redbird Capital and Fenway Sports Group, the new owners of the Penguins, have been looking for a NBA team to invest in next.