CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[TheLegend]

It seemed obvious that not everyone is committed considering their landlord evicted them.

You mean a landlord which has an alternate motive.

You may want to take a closer look at all the pieces on the chess board.

 

[awfulwaffle]

The yotes need to hit the cap floor, ideally getting a superstar free agent is the way to do it.

Why does this come up every year? The cap floor this year was what, $60M? Coyotes were at $76M this year. Next year the cap is only going up by $1M, so say the floor also goes up to $61M. Cap Friendly shows they are currently at $49M, with 14 spots to fill. That's an average of $857K each just to reach the floor. They won't have any issue hitting the floor.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm sorry but I have connections to actual universities. I'm well aware of how common it is for students to charge the doors of a university president.

All it takes is one twitter tweet etc and people will be looking into some of his anti social behaviors of the past.

Those good behavior clauses usually include removing employees who are known to be problematic etc.

Which is not a problem in an environment without a union.

The point is these policies put the team in vulnerable position.

The team can't buy out a player every time something controversial pops up.

In the last year we've had serious contoversies with Chicago, a Montreal draft pick, Deangelo affecting which affects two teams, Bertuzzi and Kane who affects two teams.

That's 7 teams out of 32 being linked to very publicized controversies. Not to mention controversies associated with organizations who've defended abusive coaches, who hired staff from chicago etc.

And that all occurred without these teams being near coeds.

The argument the team is gonna be on their best behavior would hold weight, if the players wanted to be in ASU.

Remember I mentioned the football team?

Arizona State University football player charged in DUI crash that killed 23-year-old

Stanley Lambert allegedly struck pedestrian Norah Bruther on Saturday around 1:30 a.m. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

www.nbcnews.com

This is just one example.... there are more.

I think it's time to tone the rhetoric down about campus revolts. This story above hasn't even made a ripple on campus.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

You mean a landlord which has an alternate motive.

You may want to take a closer look at all the pieces on the chess board.

Was the alternate motive, “We can make more money on independent events than this floundering team”?

 

[Ernie]

Why does this come up every year? The cap floor this year was what, $60M? Coyotes were at $76M this year. Next year the cap is only going up by $1M, so say the floor also goes up to $61M. Cap Friendly shows they are currently at $49M, with 14 spots to fill. That's an average of $857K each just to reach the floor. They won't have any issue hitting the floor.

Capfriendly has them with just 6 spots to fill. They'll likely take on another LTIR contract. If they trade Chychrun for picks they'll need to bring in even more salary. Open question of what they'll do with Clayton Keller. It appears that they are building young assets right now while expending as little payroll as possible, aiming to be competitive in a few years timed with the opening of a new stadium.

Personally I'm not surprised that they're (likely) having trouble filling the ASU stadium. Who wants to watch this team 41 weeknights a year at full NHL prices? But certainly not a great look. Their financials are not public but are available to the rest of the league and the players association. The NHLPA will have a new executive director this year, will they make more of a stink about the situation? Players would be facing a lot less debt if the team was playing in Houston.

For all the complaining about GRA, is saving 30 minutes driving really worth paying double the price to attend a game?

 

[fryfunk]

Remember I mentioned the football team?

Arizona State University football player charged in DUI crash that killed 23-year-old

Stanley Lambert allegedly struck pedestrian Norah Bruther on Saturday around 1:30 a.m. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

www.nbcnews.com

This is just one example.... there are more.

I think it's time to tone the rhetoric down about campus revolts. This story above hasn't even made a ripple on campus.

I'm aware it's far far far easier to go after an external issue than an internal issue that'll shake the university to its corp.

Especially is a student athlete and the other is a multi millionaire. They tend to go after people of privlege rather than ones without money.

Your explaining exactly why even administrators would chose to target an external issue rather than internal issues that could shake school systems to their corp.

 

[Dolemite]

You were asked about this before and came up empty.

Use the search feature. If I don’t answer I tend not to repeat my answers.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Use the search feature. If I don’t answer I tend not to repeat my answers.

No. I'm talking about you talking hit pieces against the Coyotes coming out like clockwork (that time, the subject was was TDL and FA) and coming up with one unrelated article from 2015. You then proceeded to get challenged on it by multiple posters and went MIA.

We can do this again.

Can you provide these clockwork 'hit-pieces' from year to year regarding the status of Arizona's arena?

Swear to God, that franchise would be a lot easier to support if some people weren't twisting themselves into pretzels to Baghdad Bob the entire thing. There is no conspiracy to f*** with the Coyotes.

 

[fryfunk]

Remember I mentioned the football team?

Arizona State University football player charged in DUI crash that killed 23-year-old

Stanley Lambert allegedly struck pedestrian Norah Bruther on Saturday around 1:30 a.m. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

www.nbcnews.com

This is just one example.... there are more.

I think it's time to tone the rhetoric down about campus revolts. This story above hasn't even made a ripple on campus.

This example isn't an example.

A student commits a crime doesn't mean anything.

He can be expelled.

You can't expel a NHL player for a tweet etc. Those are the things that get student bodies upset.

The whole point of the morality clause is that they have to address problems when they come up. Which is fine if the players aren't unionized.

 

[gstommylee]

This example isn't an example.

A student commits a crime doesn't mean anything.

He can be expelled.

You can't expel a NHL player for a tweet etc. Those are the things that get student bodies upset.

The whole point of the morality clause is that they have to address problems when they come up. Which is fine if the players aren't unionized.

and terminated a agreement just cause student bodies are upset will get ASU sued and have to explain themselves why they kicked the yotes out for no apparent reason...


Stop REACHING.

 

[TheLegend]

Was the alternate motive, “We can make more money on independent events than this floundering team”?

They have 11 events scheduled at GRA for the remainder of 2022.

11

And that includes the new Professional Bull Riders league that recently formed.

According to Glendale’s own consultant, they would need 20 top tier events (concert) to equal the income the Coyotes brought them.

So to do that they’re going to pour $50 million in renovations into the arena so they can flex more towards drawing those events. They still owe at least that much to pay the original construction bonds off.

But that’s all based upon only having Footprint Center downtown to compete with.

So what are they going to do if Tempe approves the TED project and Meruelo gets his arena built?

Even their city manager recently admitted it could be a problem for them.

 

[TheLegend]

This example isn't an example.

A student commits a crime doesn't mean anything.

He can be expelled.

You can't expel a NHL player for a tweet etc. Those are the things that get student bodies upset.

The whole point of the morality clause is that they have to address problems when they come up. Which is fine if the players aren't unionized.

I said there’s more. That one was the most recent.

But I’m not going to perpetuate this silly tangent because your really stretching this beyond the point of reality.

If ASU thought Meruelo’s nose hair was a detriment to their public look they could invoke a termination. Silly assertion but it’s no different than all of these examples you keep dreaming up.

BTW I dealt with my own share of campus unrests going back to the 70’s. Everything you’ve managed to pull out of your hat so far pales in comparison.

 

[TheLegend]

Well this perked my ears up…..

 

[Mightygoose]

Why does the team need to meet with the airport advisory board if the city reportedly doesn't have the issue with the airport?

 

[TheLegend]

Why does the team need to meet with the airport advisory board if the city reportedly doesn't have the issue with the airport?

Because the Coyotes promised they would work with the airport to make as little impact as possible.

But that’s the Coyotes, not Tempe.

There’s another high-density housing project (~400 units) currently on the books for a site even closer to Sky Harbor than TED is and it aligns with the south runway. Been crickets about that one.

 

[TheLegend]

Some more info trickling in. Nothing earth shaking but sounds like they’re continuing to work things out.



Edit: Craig responded to someone he watched the meeting from home. Would have to check Sky Harbor’s site later but might be a video archive of the meeting there soon.

 

[Mightygoose]

Because the Coyotes promised they would work with the airport to make as little impact as possible.

But that’s the Coyotes, not Tempe.

There’s another high-density housing project (~400 units) currently on the books for a site even closer to Sky Harbor than TED is and it aligns with the south runway. Been crickets about that one.

How many meetings have they had with them so far?

My understanding is they said they would work with them after Tempe gives the initial approval.

That board doesn't need to sign off on this plan or is this incorrect?

 

[jonathan613]

Capfriendly has them with just 6 spots to fill. They'll likely take on another LTIR contract. If they trade Chychrun for picks they'll need to bring in even more salary. Open question of what they'll do with Clayton Keller. It appears that they are building young assets right now while expending as little payroll as possible, aiming to be competitive in a few years timed with the opening of a new stadium.

Personally I'm not surprised that they're (likely) having trouble filling the ASU stadium. Who wants to watch this team 41 weeknights a year at full NHL prices? But certainly not a great look. Their financials are not public but are available to the rest of the league and the players association. The NHLPA will have a new executive director this year, will they make more of a stink about the situation? Players would be facing a lot less debt if the team was playing in Houston.

For all the complaining about GRA, is saving 30 minutes driving really worth paying double the price to attend a game?

To answer your last question, 30 minutes each way would be an hour total and in tempe, you are generally near the higher income areas. So what those of us who want the coyotes to stay in arizona are hoping is that there will be a larger pool of fans who could attend games on weeknights for example that would not otherwise. in the southeast portions of the city such as mesa, gilbert and chandler going to a game becomes much more realistic logistically. Our hope is that with an increased potential pool of fans, that you will be able to find more people willing to pay the higher ticket prices. This will be the first chance ever for fans in the phoenix market to watch nhl games in a centrally located area with an unobstructed view of the action.

 

[Llama19]

From the airports web page (www.skyharbor.com/tempeentertainmentdistrict):

On May 18, 2022, the Aviation Department received a copy of a letter sent by the Air Line Pilots Association to Tempe Mayor Corey Woods, expressing their continued concern with the Tempe Entertainment District development. It references a letter from Oct. 20, 2021 also linked on this page.

 

[TheLegend]

How many meetings have they had with them so far?

My understanding is they said they would work with them after Tempe gives the initial approval.

That board doesn't need to sign off on this plan or is this incorrect?

This was the second meeting if I’m not mistaken.

There’s been e-mail traffic between them as well.

The sticking point atm is Sky Harbor wants to see the entire proposal itself, but the Coyotes can’t do that yet because of procurement laws in Arizona. Just like Tempe can’t until it hits the public hearing stage.

Next council meetings are the 25th (or 26th?). Tempe has them all listed but as of last night no agendas were tagged to any of them yet.

 

[1CasualFan]

"Because they were one sided hit pieces.
The "good behavior" clause is standard procedure for ASU. Been confirmed by a spokesperson for ASU.
Strang and Shapiro tried to pump that one point up as a "gotcha" and then try to support it by Strang's previous pieces based on people who were let go by the Coyotes or left because they didn't like the changes.
Frankly speaking, I would prefer seeing @1CasualFan 's legal interpretation of the lease (if a copy is actually out there) than a couple of writers."

RE: "Good Behavior" clause. This franchise was owned by Jerry Moyes and LeBlanc Edge Management. Every partner for the foreseeable future is going to have adverse reputational events escape in their contract. Calling it a "good behavior" clause seems childish - but maybe it's more click worthy?

I think this all comes down to the GPLET. What do the Coyotes need to make this thing go -vs- what can Tempe reasonably give? (assuming Tempe feels like building the 23rd arena in the Phoenix metro area)

They'll figure out the airport stuff if they have funding - it will be very interesting to watch. In the meantime, games at the ASU arena are going to be awesome.

 

[Llama19]

Tempe leaders hear from developers, airport officials over $1.7B proposal for new Arizona Coyotes arena

Source: www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-coyotes-put-in-1-7-billion-proposal-to-build-arena-in-tempe

 

[Ernie]

Tempe leaders hear from developers, airport officials over $1.7B proposal for new Arizona Coyotes arena

Source: www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-coyotes-put-in-1-7-billion-proposal-to-build-arena-in-tempe

This is the relevant update to that article:

Plans for entertainment districted presented to Aviation Board​

On May 19, 2022, developers presented their project plans to the Aviation Board.

While no decisions were made during the meeting, both sides presented plenty of data about airport operations.

Some take issue with the fact that the district, as planned, would be built within 10,000 feet of Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport's center runway. Critics say the construction could cause runway delays, and impact pilots' line of sight. They also brought up noise concerns for residents in the area.

Developers, meanwhile, say they have met with airport technical teams. They also say cranes are lower than 40 feet in height, and that the height of their buildings have been reduced, after concerns were raised in previous meetings.

Some of the board have asked both sides to work collaboratively, because the studies had such different results.

 

[TheLegend]

Geez…. if Fox 10 couldn’t just create a new article instead of tacking onto one that was dated September 2021. Never have liked their website.

Anyway….

So it appears the housing towers have been lowered slightly (ie reduced the number of floors). They said way back when they announced the proposal that they might do that to ease everyone’s mind.

 

[TheLegend]

"Because they were one sided hit pieces.
The "good behavior" clause is standard procedure for ASU. Been confirmed by a spokesperson for ASU.
Strang and Shapiro tried to pump that one point up as a "gotcha" and then try to support it by Strang's previous pieces based on people who were let go by the Coyotes or left because they didn't like the changes.
Frankly speaking, I would prefer seeing @1CasualFan 's legal interpretation of the lease (if a copy is actually out there) than a couple of writers."

RE: "Good Behavior" clause. This franchise was owned by Jerry Moyes and LeBlanc Edge Management. Every partner for the foreseeable future is going to have adverse reputational events escape in their contract. Calling it a "good behavior" clause seems childish - but maybe it's more click worthy?

I think this all comes down to the GPLET. What do the Coyotes need to make this thing go -vs- what can Tempe reasonably give? (assuming Tempe feels like building the 23rd arena in the Phoenix metro area)

They'll figure out the airport stuff if they have funding - it will be very interesting to watch. In the meantime, games at the ASU arena are going to be awesome.

Thanks CF.

Remember those figures the airport board were using to say how much the project would cost them? Seems they were stretching it a bit.....

Summary of today's Coyotes/Sky Harbor meeting.... From:

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2022/05/19/coyotes-sky-harbor-construction-dispute.html

At the April meeting, Jordan Feld, Phoenix’s deputy aviation director, said that, based on information given to the airport by the Coyotes’ development team, the construction cranes being used for the project could cause airlines to demand to take off from the north runway to avoid the proposed project, which would lead to delays and up to a $21 million loss for the airport.

During Thursday’s meeting, a slide from the Coyotes presentation said those numbers were “fabricated.”

In fact, Feld admitted on Thursday that the numbers he shared were based off the highest projections and factored in demand levels not currently being seen at the airport. Feld still said that the construction of the proposed project could cause delays leading to losses for the airport up to $2.8 million a year — the low end of the projections.

(Note: Article was paywalled and I used incognito mode in Chrome to get at it.)

Also from the article....

About those cranes.....

Crane heights​

The Coyotes provided an in-depth analysis to airport officials that not only showed cranes taller than the ones they propose have been used in the past at similar distances from the airport, but in fact, cranes used to build airport-owned projects like the Sky Train and the rental car center were taller and used longer than the Coyotes’ proposed cranes.

The Coyotes said the tallest crane it will use in the construction will go up 165 feet, adding that it could be moved and would only be used for 21 days.

“We proposed 155- to 165-foot construction cranes and we believe very strongly that they will receive FAA determination, similar to Carvana’s new campus — a 190-foot construction crane, which is directly across the street from our proposed project located the same distance from the airport,” Gutierrez said.

Tom Karstetter, a former Federal Aviation Administration employee and the Coyote’s aviation consultant on the proposed project, said he wondered why Carvana’s crane did not receive the same public backlash from the airport, the FAA and the airlines as the Coyotes project, which has not yet been approved. He hinted at some sort of political motive behind the outcry.

“It is somewhat surprising to me that the [FAA’s] regional administrator would comment when we have not even gotten to the place in time to submit the data to request them to begin the process to determine if it is safe or not,” Karstetter said.

Coyotes' FAA experts had been working with the airport's own FAA experts and had conceded to lower building heights by 20 feet (or two stories.)

During the meeting, Nick Wood, the Coyotes' attorney, confirmed that the Coyotes changed the proposed heights of most of the buildings on the project after concerns were raised by the airport last fall.

“When we first met with you, we showed a map that indicated building heights that averaged about 140 feet. That was, of course, before we started doing significant analysis, before we had our FAA folks sit down with yours,” Wood said. “Since that time, we have lowered building heights. There is not a building on this project that ... exceeds 120 feet.”

It is unclear whether the airport was aware of these changes before the meeting.

(The aviation board didn't get the memo?? )