CXLI - UPDATE 1/27 - Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU

[MNNumbers]

Well if during next season they discover they had to bail to another market (QC, Houston, etc) they could probably go on a short notice basis.

The optimal scenario would be getting the Tempe proposal done by the summer.

My post above is really a preface to saying “let’s take this one step at a time.”

Wait....You are suggesting that they sign a 3 year lease with ASU, then break it after a year? I mean in the case where Tempe fails, but not before next fall?

 

[MNNumbers]

by the way.....

I must have missed it. Is there any word on a practice facility?

 

[TheLegend]

Wait....You are suggesting that they sign a 3 year lease with ASU, then break it after a year? I mean in the case where Tempe fails, but not before next fall?

If they’re paying ASU up front for all three years as was reported what’s the problem leaving after one?

I think by the summer they’ll know where they stand with Tempe, one way or another. Because the report from Hunden will be in and if it comes back favorable with minimal adjustments it will get through. If there are large gaps between what Meruelo’s analysis says and Hunden then Meruelo will need to make the decision of how much he wants to come their way or if at all and that shouldn’t take long.

 

[MNNumbers]

If they’re paying ASU up front for all three years as was reported what’s the problem leaving after one?

I think by the summer they’ll know where they stand with Tempe, one way or another. Because the report from Hunden will be in and if it comes back favorable with minimal adjustments it will get through. If there are large gaps between what Meruelo’s analysis says and Hunden then Meruelo will need to make the decision of how much he wants to come their way or if at all and that shouldn’t take long.

Good question. What are the provisions in the lease with regard to if ASU gets any cut from NHL game nights?

Also, do you happen to know which seats on City Council are up for election this spring, and how the current members of said Council stand on the rfp?

 

[TheLegend]

Good question. What are the provisions in the lease with regard to if ASU gets any cut from NHL game nights?

Also, do you happen to know which seats on City Council are up for election this spring, and how the current members of said Council stand on the rfp?

I scanned over the document submitted to the ABOR. Didn’t tsee anything in regards to what lease terms are, but ASU doesn’t need ABOR approval for that. Just for the building work.

There’s three seats up on the council. With only one incumbent running. Do not know how they elect their members but it looks like top three vote totals would get the seats.

Also do not know who on the council is voting which way. Just know there is three solid yes and two no and the other two have been leaning no due to what they saw about the taxes.

EDIT: Craig Morgan posted this in his latest post ASG log. There won’t be a final vote in Tempe until after the March 8 election.

The Tempe City Council has yet to decide whether to move forward with the Coyotes’ proposal. Two sources familiar with the situation said that it is unlikely that the council will vote on the proposal before elections on March 8 in which there are three open seats.

Those council members won’t be sworn in until July. So we’re more than likely looking at August or September now

 

[mouser]

by the way.....

I must have missed it. Is there any word on a practice facility?

Coyotes already have a long time practice facility partner. Ice Den Scottsdale.

The new ASU arena has two sheets of ice—there’s a 2nd dedicated practice rink in the back of the building. I haven’t seen any details on how fully ASU plans to schedule that 2nd ice sheet or whether the Coyotes proposal would have them also use the ASU ice sheets for practice. Wouldn’t be surprised if the agreement has the Yotes using one or both of the ASU ice sheets when available with Ice Den as backup.

Whatever the solution is they shouldn’t need any new practice facilities.

 

[Fenway]

Gary made it clear that the Phoenix market is worth saving.

Glendale in retrospect is a carbon copy of Sunrise, FL and Kanata, ON - The land was cheap and for a reason.....

I think Gary was still bullish on Glendale when the NFL moved there in 2006 and both the Dodgers and White Sox moved spring training there in 2009.

Then came Atlanta in 2011.....

The NHL waved when the NBA Hawks said they did not want to own the team or allow them to play in the arena with other owners.

We know there were Atlanta investors willing to buy the Thrashers and play at The Arena at Gwinnett Center short term but Gary decided Winnipeg was a better option but I think he still regrets walking away from that market.

NHL attendance figures are skewed this year because of COVID restrictions in Canada but Arizona with an awful team is not a black hole as they will attract traveling fans.

My sense is the BoG has told Gary that they can live with what Meruelo wants to do as long as the other 31 teams don't have to contribute a dime.

2021-22 Attendance	Home	Road	Overall
RK	TEAM	GMS	TOTAL	AVG	PCT	GMS	AVG	PCT	GMS	AVG	PCT
1	Tampa Bay	24	458,208	19,092	100.0	22	15,764	85.0	46	17,500	92.9
2	Minnesota	18	334,535	18,585	97.2	23	16,213	90.4	41	17,254	93.5
3	Washington	25	464,325	18,573	100.4	22	15,927	88.4	47	17,334	94.9
4	Vegas	26	469,864	18,071	104.1	20	16,452	90.4	46	17,367	98.0
5	Dallas	22	395,691	17,985	97.1	21	14,901	82.4	43	16,479	90.0
6	Chicago	22	394,021	17,910	90.8	24	17,202	95.3	46	17,541	93.1
7	Boston	24	428,400	17,850	100.0	19	16,101	87.4	43	17,077	94.3
8	St. Louis	24	419,693	17,487	96.6	20	16,614	87.7	44	17,090	92.4
9	Pittsburgh	24	417,472	17,394	95.6	22	16,797	92.1	46	17,109	93.9
10	Colorado	24	412,206	17,175	95.4	20	16,634	90.3	44	16,929	93.0
11	Seattle	25	428,775	17,151	100.3	21	16,575	92.3	46	16,888	96.6
12	Nashville	21	359,491	17,118	100.0	25	16,359	89.7	46	16,706	94.2
13	NY Islanders	22	375,876	17,085	99.8	17	15,871	87.1	39	16,556	94.1
14	Vancouver	19	324,609	17,084	90.3	27	14,918	81.8	46	15,813	85.4
15	Detroit	26	441,696	16,988	87.1	21	16,203	87.8	47	16,637	87.4
16	Philadelphia	22	371,805	16,900	86.5	23	14,868	82.4	45	15,861	84.5
17	Carolina	21	353,960	16,855	90.2	21	15,416	84.9	42	16,135	87.6
18	NY Rangers	21	343,677	16,365	90.9	26	16,228	88.4	47	16,289	89.5
19	Columbus	23	363,760	15,815	87.2	20	14,384	79.0	43	15,150	83.3
20	Montreal	19	298,375	15,703	73.8	25	15,818	87.1	44	15,769	80.9
21	Toronto	21	320,913	15,281	81.2	21	15,660	87.1	42	15,471	84.1
22	Edmonton	20	294,880	14,744	79.1	22	13,576	75.3	42	14,132	77.1
23	Los Angeles	25	359,433	14,377	78.9	22	15,898	87.3	47	15,089	82.8
24	Florida	26	364,067	14,002	82.2	21	14,608	80.3	47	14,273	81.3
25	Calgary	15	198,341	13,222	68.6	27	15,061	82.2	42	14,404	77.2
26	Anaheim	24	306,824	12,784	74.4	24	14,376	78.5	48	13,580	76.6
27	New Jersey	24	305,478	12,728	77.1	21	15,716	87.1	45	14,122	82.0
28	Winnipeg	19	235,054	12,371	82.5	23	16,003	88.5	42	14,360	86.0
29	San Jose	22	267,166	12,143	69.1	24	16,027	87.7	46	14,170	79.0
30	Arizona	22	255,326	11,605	67.8	23	15,299	85.3	45	13,493	76.9
31	Buffalo	22	189,779	8,626	45.2	23	14,541	81.6	45	11,649	63.2
32	Ottawa	19	162,141	8,533	44.6	21	14,510	79.5	40	11,671	62.5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Back when the Cardinals played at Sun Devil Stadium your comment would have been correct.

Not any more.

Not even then. Suns were way, way more popular valley wide 1990 thru the Steve Nash era. Except for the one year they beat Nebraska and lost to Ohio State in the Rose Bowl....if they were mid 2010s Oregon level every year, they would be the darlings of the Valley but they haven't been and don't look to be any time soon.

 

[frivolousz21]

Exhibit 36 (and 37 on the next page for more good measure)

EXHIBIT 36 VISITING TEAM WORKOUT EQUIPMENT STANDARDIZATION
Clubs are to provide the following items to visiting teams, maintained in good working order (replaced as needed, or as per the standards, set forth below, if provided). Clubs shall provide a dedicated weight room area to visiting teams (note: in arenas with space limitations, a curtained-off area, private from the media, will satisfy this requirement).

3 Stationary Bikes – 5 year useful life (League-approved model)
2 pairs of adjustable 50-55 lb dumbbells on stands (Club Sets by Power Block) – 5 year shelf life
3 Kettlebells (16kg, 20kg, 24kg) – 5 year shelf life
3 Airex Foam Matts (stretching mats)– replaced annually
2 Stability Balls 65cm (Anti-Birst) – 2-3 year shelf life
4 Slastix Pro Bands (one of each: medium, heavy, extra heavy, super heavy)
Adjustable bench – 5-7 year shelf life
2 stainless mobile whirlpools (hot/cold) – minimum 105 gallon capacity – 10 year shelf life
1 TRX Trainer
1 Agility Ladder
1 Airex Pad (balance / stability)
1 Bosu Ball
1 Rocker Board (balance board)
2 First Place Elite Medicine Balls (20-25lbs)
2 First Place Elite Medicine Balls (6-8lbs)
4 The Grid Foam Roller
4 Stretch Out Straps
4 Lacrosse Balls
4 Tiger Tail Massage Sticks
2 Skipping Ropes
1 Soccer Ball
1 Pull-up Bar
1 Portable Trunk on wheels to store all contents (except the Dumbbells) for easy storage and movement

The standards for whirlpools may have to be adjusted due to insufficient facility space in some visiting dressing room areas. Minimum standard is one (1) whirlpool, when space does not allow for full standard to be met.

To the extent feasible and practicable, the standards set forth above will also apply to neutral site games.

Collective Bargaining Agreement

I worked cleaning the blues lockerroom and away team rooms for 3 years.

Everything listed the blues supplied and then some.

In 3 years no one used those stainless mobile whirlpools not once because they are gross

 

[Pandemonia]

They can worry about relocation announcements later.

No, they need to worry about them now. It's called thinking ahead and making plans.

Perhaps if the Coyotes had done more of this, they wouldn't be in half the messes they're in now.

 

[StreetHawk]

I worked cleaning the blues lockerroom and away team rooms for 3 years.

Everything listed the blues supplied and then some.

In 3 years no one used those stainless mobile whirlpools not once because they are gross

Who would have time to use them as a visiting team? Most of the time you have to travel to another city after the game.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[TheLegend]

No, they need to worry about them now. It's called thinking ahead and making plans.

Perhaps if the Coyotes had done more of this, they wouldn't be in half the messes they're in now.

For all anyone knows they might have all this time.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

People really overreacting to Coyotes playing in 5000 seater arena.

Fact of the matter is if they don't get a yes for new Tempe arena by end of 2022, they are moving anyway. One way or another they will not play there indifinitely.

 

[Pandemonia]

People really overreacting to Coyotes playing in 5000 seater arena.

Fact of the matter is if they don't get a yes for new Tempe arena by end of 2022, they are moving anyway. One way or another they will not play there indifinitely.

It seems to be the thing these days. All sorts of horrendous, destructive events happening in my county and when I try to discuss them I'm told that I'm "overreacting".

If you don't react strongly to an NHL team being forced to play for under 5,000 people for the next 4-6 years, what do you react to?

Serious question. What then would you react to?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

It seems to be the thing these days. All sorts of horrendous, destructive events happening in my county and when I try to discuss them I'm told that I'm "overreacting".

If you don't react strongly to an NHL teams being forced to play for under 5,000 people for the next 4-6 years, what do you react to?

Does Coyotes playing in 5000 seat arena temporarily affect your life what so ever? What kind of silly comparison is that???

When I say overreacting I mean people are acting like this is gonna be indefinite thing. I assure you Coyotes will not be there indefinitely. Either they leave Coyotes or Tempe arena gets built.

 

[Mightygoose]

The last time the NHL used an arena, even in temporary basis in the 5,000 range was for the 1930-31 season hosting the Philadelphia Quakers.

Bettman throwing shade at the Suns suggests there was thoughts of playing there on top of that Morgan reported there was talks about Chase Field that haven't happened since October, on top of the league saying earlier that Glendale terminating the lease is a negotiating tactic.

The fact the talks at ASU didn't start until December, how can anyone think this is a result of long term planning?

Bettman did a good job for his owner
as always putting a positive spin on this.

The board of regents approval will be nice distraction from this potential train wreck if this file doesn't move forward on the Tempe end soon.

 

[TheLegend]

From Craig Morgan via Twitter:

Regarding the Dec. date mentioned in ABOR document for Coyotes' 1st home game at ASU, a league source tells me it's the NHL's understanding that the arena could host NHL games before team areas are ready so there may be a workaround.
Coyotes will comment when deal is approved.

The arena will be ready a month earlier in November and it appears the league might allow the Coyotes to host a home game or two before the support facilities are completed.

All still in the air though.

 

[JimAnchower]

From Craig Morgan via Twitter:



The arena will be ready a month earlier in November and it appears the league might allow the Coyotes to host a home game or two before the support facilities are completed.

All still in the air though.

This sounds like about an eight month build for the annex. That means they'll need to send ASU the money and start construction before they know whether Tempe will approve the deal or not.

 

[TheLegend]

This sounds like about an eight month build for the annex. That means they'll need to send ASU the money and start construction before they know whether Tempe will approve the deal or not.

Terms outlined earlier were the money had to come up front.

They’re using the same contractor who’s building the complex so it might have been their requirement for the change order. Which I presume includes new drawings and code inspections, etc.

 

[Fatass]

From Craig Morgan via Twitter:



The arena will be ready a month earlier in November and it appears the league might allow the Coyotes to host a home game or two before the support facilities are completed.

All still in the air though.

PLAy all road games for the first bit? Islanders did that this year. BUT this all hinges on getting started on their new rink, right?

 

[TheLegend]

PLAy all road games for the first bit? Islanders did that this year. BUT this all hinges on getting started on their new rink, right?

Seems so. The way the documents are being presented, ASU is all for it (because they’ll benefit in the long run), but it’s up to the ABOR now.

 

[Fatass]

Seems so. The way the documents are being presented, ASU is all for it (because they’ll benefit in the long run), but it’s up to the ABOR now.

Hopefully it does work out. Imagine watching an nhL in that smaller rink with 4000 fans. How cool would that be? I could see fans making that a must do, and pay big money for the opportunity. MIGht have to raffle off chances to buy the seats!

 

[royals119]

Here is the plan...

Capital Development Plan and License Agreement Approval

public.azregents.edu/Board/Item%203__ASU%20Capital%20Development%20Plan.pdf

If they’re paying ASU up front for all three years as was reported what’s the problem leaving after one?

I think by the summer they’ll know where they stand with Tempe, one way or another. Because the report from Hunden will be in and if it comes back favorable with minimal adjustments it will get through. If there are large gaps between what Meruelo’s analysis says and Hunden then Meruelo will need to make the decision of how much he wants to come their way or if at all and that shouldn’t take long.

In reading the plan I didn't see any mention of a lease, but maybe I missed it. Is this a stituation where Muerelo will pay for the annex and upgrades to the ice making, boards, and broadcasting capabilities and get 3-4 years of use of the arena in exchange? (without further lease payments?) Obviously they will need to have some kind of lease to agree on who gets ticket revenue, concessions, parking, etc. It seems to me if the university expects to recieve payments for the use of the building they would have included that in their math, as it would help to pay down the debt.

If that is the case, and the Coyotes get to keep all the profit from everything associated with their games (presumably after paying labor costs for ushers and cashiers, and cost of the food and beer), and no additional rent is required beyond the $20 Million construction costs, does that make the losses manageable? In other words, is $5 million per year a manageable lease payment for the team? (or 6.5 million per year if they get Tempe done in 3 years?) It is the cost of one second or third line player, so it doesn't seem like a deal breaker for the short term, particularly if they are going to be a cap floor team anyway.

I agree with others who have said they are going to play at ASU next season, if it is approved by the board of regents, even if they don't have an answer on Tempe yet. If the Tempe answer comes back no in August, or after, they have a few months to come with with (reveal?) plan B. If nothing is happening elsewhere in greater Phoenix by the end of 2022, then they start publically working on relocation plans. And they play at ASU for at least one season while they negotiate a new location elsewhere, or a sale.

 

[Fenway]

Gary wants to keep his employers happy by inflating franchise values.

We know the only person in Kansas City (Clark Hunt) who would be interested in a team said back when Vegas was admitted that the most he could pay to make it work was 350M. Obviously the Rockets owner has his price as well.

Gary pointed out this move to ASU does not help the Coyotes revenue sharing as they are at the max now.