CXLI - UPDATE 1/27 - Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU
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Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
That's why it's fine if the Coyotes leave...you can drive to Vegas in 4 hours in your Lambo, right? And who needs to work?
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?
So which is it? Do you not live in Arizona, or are you a delusional ASU grad? Because I can't think of any other category that would suggest that.
golffuul
Registered User
- Oct 24, 2011
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So is this the first time that Gary has actually had a legitimate "drop dead" position on Arizona? He basically said if the big arena deal falls through, than that's it. If Meruelo can't secure the big arena deal, it's over. Am I reading that correctly?
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Yes and no.
Meruelo said in a local press conference last year he was close on two different possibilities. Tempe was obviously one but we don't know what the other one was. So there is an outside possibility he could pivot to a plan B if he still has it available. *I* am not holding my breath on that. Not worth it.
Just have to see what happens over the next 2-3 months.
JimAnchower
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2012
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Does anyone know how long would it take a construct a facility like this? If Tempe is a couple of months away from a decision, would work on this have to start before a decision is made to be ready in November? A potential complication, there is still work being done on the arena that would have to worked around.
This is an interesting angle, and one that goes along with something from Bettman....at least twice he confirmed that the ASU rental situation is only viable if there is a new barn on the way. Of course, he wouldn't create a time line. He isn't going to say "We need a commitment by....xxxxxdate......or this doesn't work." But, the fact that he acknowledge that ASU has to be temporary, with a new arena in process, seems newsworthy.
A couple of questions about that:
1- Did he say that to try to pressure Tempe? Maybe.
2- Did he say it so that the league doesn't look foolish playing long term in an NCAA barn? Maybe.
?????
Another angle:
First, he blames Glendale for the divorce. But, then, he says, "Alex might actually make more money at ASU." Now, I don't believe that will happen. The increase in ticket prices would be steep enough that it almost can't happen. But, there is something 'talking out of both sides of one's mouth' here, when, at the same time, he wants you to believe they both wanted to stay in Glendale and at the same time, will do better at ASU. This is obviously lawyering....
Finally, what if???
Tempe CC decides to go slowly on their decision-making process. If so, maybe it gets left to the new council, which take office in July I think. Can Meruelo wait until July? I can't imagine his 15,000 sq ft building can wait until then. Does this become a big problem?
""It's ok me and my son talked, it's all ok, I'm gonna spend $45,000 a year paying for my son to study unicycle riding, there's no reason to get upset, everything is ok, I mean he could of took that money and spent it on something useful like a law degree, but trust me there's no reason to get upset. There's plenty of money in unicycle riding, there's no reason to get upset. ""
The point is the league has been supporting this team forever and instead of showing a return in investment they humilate the league with unicycle riding.
Don't play dumb you know exactly what my quote is referring to, gary is pissed. He's trying to pretend like he's not ready to have a on stage meltdown, he kepts trying to pretend everything is ok when clearly it is not. Gary has been rattled.
The point is the league has been supporting this team forever and instead of showing a return in investment they humilate the league with unicycle riding.
It's not all or nothing, it's obviously a gradient, people from further out are gonna go less often, but you're trying to pretend like it's either they won't or they will.
The 4 hour number is the far side of things obviously, there's a respectable number within a 1.5hour drive. And the magic of being in nowheres Canada is that you're very inclined to head to the city. It's different from a place like Missouri where you can drive in 4 or 5 different directions to find a city for shopping/partying etc.
The point is the city is the size of Winnipeg with radically more people within a few hours drive.
Retirees, people heading to QC for meetings, medical appointments, to visit their kids at schools etc will be heading in. Then you have people from all over going to QC as it's a very popular winter vacation city.
What you're understating is how limited your options are. You can either go east to QC, west to Montreal/Ottawa, or mess with the border, where people don't speak french.
It isn't gonna be a shock if resale value of tickets during their winter Valentine day weekend-carnival-christmas-any weekend etc are through the roof.
I get to some people going to a winter city for a vacation sounds absurd, but for a whole lot of people it's a natural combo to see a hockey game in between ski trips/ice fishing/romantic diners etc.
You'd be surprised how common honey mooning in QC is as well.
QC isn't Winnipeg.
PainForShane
formerly surfshop
- Dec 24, 2019
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I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Does anyone else? I just googled your quote thinking it might have been a movie quote, but it isn't. WTH does any of this have to do with Gary paying money for the Yotes to ride a unicycle or become lawyers.
Of course Gary is pissed, of course he is pretending everything is ok. At this point, if he doesn't then the Tempe proposal has a 0% chance of coming through. Put a different way if the Tempe arena actually does get built (and Meruelo can actually afford it, I personally have my doubts about that), then for the first time ever the Yotes have a stable home with actual fans (even if it will take 3-4 years). Gary's doing what he has to do in order to keep that possibility open
Ah if it's a movie you'll have to stop pretending you don't know what I'm getting at.
It's obviously a joke, Gary is the disapproving father who has to pretend his son's actions aren't infuriating him. He needs to keep reassuring people the situation is ok, when clearly his eyes are twiching out the back of his head.
The point is the league has offered AM endless support, and it's failing.
But you already knew this.
Again "lots of money in unicycle riding, nothing to worry about".
If I told you this was there plan 6 months ago you'd have claimed I'm trolling.
Now all of a sudden the goal posts are being moved.
This ain't happening.
This is in the realm of ESPN can't ever show that arena on television, realm of failure.
A small handful of people are acting like it's a plan. The vast majority know this runs in opposition to almost everything the NHL is working towards.
The players hate it, the other owners hate it, the fans hate it, and the people paying for the television contracts hate it.
I'd bet $1,000 cash for real this ain't gonna happen. My guess is it's a bargaining technique to delay the sale of the team to an outside owner.
Pandemonia
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2020
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"compared to a market like Winnipeg"? Your comment makes no sense, unless we are to believe you live in Toronto and therefore understand little outside of southern Ontario.
The Winnipeg Jets DO control their area. A very busy arena. Which indeed "adds a ton of value" to the hockey club.
It takes barely 30 seconds and a minimal knowledge of Google to find:
"Canada Life Centre (formerly the MTS Centre, then Bell MTS Place) in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada is one of the busiest venues in North America since its opening in 2004.[1] In 2008, its placed 19th busiest arena in the world and 11th in North America, with 385,427 tickets (not including sporting events)[2] In 2009, it ranked as the 39th busiest arena in the world, and 26th busiest in North America."
PainForShane
formerly surfshop
- Dec 24, 2019
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Honestly man, I didn't know what you were getting at. I still don't, really. Your analogy is weak, and doesn't really apply in this situation.
What has Uncle Gary done for Alex Meruelo, specifically? Yes they have done a ton for the organization over the past few decades but AM got himself into this mess all on his own. Gary didn't make AM a year late on rent payments to Glendale (which led to the Yotes being evicted. Gary didn't make Katie Strang write that Athletic article. Gary didn't make AM late on player payments. Gary didn't make John Chayka quit on the eve of the playoffs (Gary also didn't make Chayka host his own combine costing the team draft picks). Gary didn't change the CBA to make it easier to blow up our team and ice an AHL roster.
Gary also didn't juice the lottery balls although I'm sure many Yotes fans wish he had.
This current mess is all Meruelo's fault (and maybe partly Glendale's or former ownership, we'll never really fully know). I don't think Gary has anything to do with it either way, honestly. Yes he's supported the Coyotes through the years but Alex Meruelo only bought the team a few years ago.
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on these boards (which is saying a lot).
If the Coyotes sign a 3-4 year deal to play in an arena with 3,000 - 5,000 seats, would that make the franchise more or less valuable to a prospective owner? smh
Gary is furious he's trying to act like he isn't furious, when the situation is clearly one of the most disappointing moments in his career how hard is that to appreciate?
Bascially everything the league has done since 1990s has been to strengthen markets like Phoenix.
Revenue sharing, sharing of television revenue across borders, divisional alignment that favored phoenix, favoring western expansion etc.
Not to mention on the things occuring behind the scenes.
I.e. phonecalls to Tempe from Gary etc.
Alex Meruelo stepped in when the situation was already in dire straits. That's sort of the point.
They actually have to have some million dollar commitments before this happens. That's sort of how these types of things work.
You need a tangible option ready to go or it's an empty threat.
Llama19
Registered User
ARIZONA BOARD OF REGENTS agenda posted...
1:50 p.m. ADMINISTRATIVE BUSINESS
Capital Development Plan and License Agreement Approval, (ASU)Arizona State University (ASU) asks the board to approve (1) its $134.7 million Capital Development Plan (CDP), which includes one resubmitted project, and (2) license agreements for use of the Multipurpose Arena in excess of three years.
Source: public.azregents.edu/Board/Amended-Agenda.pdf
That actual detailed plans...which should have been attached to the agenda and made public before the vote...have not been released...yet...
1:50 p.m. ADMINISTRATIVE BUSINESS
Capital Development Plan and License Agreement Approval, (ASU)Arizona State University (ASU) asks the board to approve (1) its $134.7 million Capital Development Plan (CDP), which includes one resubmitted project, and (2) license agreements for use of the Multipurpose Arena in excess of three years.
Source: public.azregents.edu/Board/Amended-Agenda.pdf
That actual detailed plans...which should have been attached to the agenda and made public before the vote...have not been released...yet...
PainForShane
formerly surfshop
- Dec 24, 2019
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You're talking in circles man. I still don't know what you're trying to say. I'm going to respond to this and then enjoy the rest of my weekend.
First of all, Alex Meruelo bought the team a few years ago so any prior history he had with the Coyotes in the 1990s or whatever you just said has everything to do with the Coyotes and nothing to do with Alex Meruelo like you said it did a few posts ago.
Of course Gary is furious and of course he's acting like he's not. What good does it do if he goes to the press and is like, "This owner you have is an idiot!!" All that would do is convince Tempe to not approve the arena deal. So, in this situation Gary Bettman is acting like a good commissioner should and not going out of his way to blow up the Tempe arena before the vote. If you want to make fun of him for doing his job for once then by all means please continue.
Again, I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue. Are you arguing that Gary Bettman's bad because he's letting this Arizona farce continue? If so, at this particular point in time I would say he kind of has to, at least until Tempe decides whether or not to build the big arena. And if the Tempe arena comes through, and if Alex Meruelo can eat the losses they'll have at ASU (like he says he can), and if he pays for all the upgrades to make the ASU arena compliant with all the requirements the CBA has for players (like he says he will), I'd argue there's very little Bettman can actually do, unless Alex Meruelo goes late on payments again thereby violating the CBA
@fryfunk and @PainForShane
I'm not sure, but to try to find some middle ground here.
What has Bettman done for AM?
1) Well, I assume, based on the history of the franchise, that Meruelo bought the team on very favorable terms, due the nature of the debt on the franchise. So, "He gave his a cheap purchase perhaps with guarantees that Meruelo wouldn't lose money, because if he had to sell, he would be made whole." So, Meruelo gets to own a team with no risk.
2) Bettman has stood by AM in the midst of all the messes nd blamed Glendale for all the problems, and sort of half-lied through his teeth to try to create good will in the media for AM.
3) Bettman refrained from going ballistic when the late payments were revealed.
That's a lot, actually. I am sure it would have been possible to void his ownership over the late payments, but Bettman didn't do it.
Why? Well, I assume there isn't any place the NHL wants to move to. So, they keep parroting the "as long as there is a plan in the Valley, we are happy to remain there....." Which is, of course, cheerleading at its finest.
Now, about the ASU plan.......I think Bettman is smart enough to realize that Glendale wasn't going to let the Coyotes waltz to a new arena, so he would have known there was some pain coming. And, he spoke about the Suns the same way, and he is right, neither wants a competing arena, so they would the NHL to leave. So, I am sure Bettman is disappointed it has come to this, and I'm sure he wishes there was another way, but I think he realizes there isn't any other option for the temp situation.
And, at least twice, he emphasized that there has to be a plan in Tempe for an arena, and that the ASU thing can't be permanent. That was strong language for Bettman.
Cheers....
I'm not sure, but to try to find some middle ground here.
What has Bettman done for AM?
1) Well, I assume, based on the history of the franchise, that Meruelo bought the team on very favorable terms, due the nature of the debt on the franchise. So, "He gave his a cheap purchase perhaps with guarantees that Meruelo wouldn't lose money, because if he had to sell, he would be made whole." So, Meruelo gets to own a team with no risk.
2) Bettman has stood by AM in the midst of all the messes nd blamed Glendale for all the problems, and sort of half-lied through his teeth to try to create good will in the media for AM.
3) Bettman refrained from going ballistic when the late payments were revealed.
That's a lot, actually. I am sure it would have been possible to void his ownership over the late payments, but Bettman didn't do it.
Why? Well, I assume there isn't any place the NHL wants to move to. So, they keep parroting the "as long as there is a plan in the Valley, we are happy to remain there....." Which is, of course, cheerleading at its finest.
Now, about the ASU plan.......I think Bettman is smart enough to realize that Glendale wasn't going to let the Coyotes waltz to a new arena, so he would have known there was some pain coming. And, he spoke about the Suns the same way, and he is right, neither wants a competing arena, so they would the NHL to leave. So, I am sure Bettman is disappointed it has come to this, and I'm sure he wishes there was another way, but I think he realizes there isn't any other option for the temp situation.
And, at least twice, he emphasized that there has to be a plan in Tempe for an arena, and that the ASU thing can't be permanent. That was strong language for Bettman.
Cheers....
PainForShane
formerly surfshop
- Dec 24, 2019
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One other thing.....
Imagine you are Bettman: What do you do right now?
One - You are mighty disappointed, because keeping the Yotes in the Valley (continuity is always best because it keeps people focused on the game, not issure) is not going to be easy.
Two - You are out of leverage. Glendale has said goodbye, and you know Tempe doesn't need you.
It's a tough spot.
I could easily imagine: Tempe drags its feet and there is no arena well into the summer. What now? Short notice move the only choice is Quebec. Yotes are asking for a 3 year lease. You can't sign off on that without a deal on an arena. If you had a one year lease, that would be okay, but that 150,000 sq ft annex is a lot to do for one year..... Big conundrum.
On the other hand, let's say they all know that Tempe is a long shot. Then, they know they are selling but they can't admit it publicly until May or June. So, you have to have a facade....
What a tough spot.
Llama19
Registered User
Glendale city official: 'Gary Bettman is either misinformed or he's a liar'
Kevin Phelps, city manager for Glendale, says the city never forced the Coyotes' hand when it came to negotiating a long-term lease for the Gila River Arena
Source: kencampbell.substack.com/p/glendale-city-official-gary-bettman
Pandemonia
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2020
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Reach for the antacids because my ulcers are burning through the side of my stomach.
Speaks volumes about the commissioner that everyone is pissed about the coyotes plan but he didn’t. Unacceptable for an NHL team.
Pandemonia
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2020
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I think the alligator in the swamp this week is Rocky Wirtz.
Next week, new alligator...
Now, imagine in July, when Tempe still hasn't decided....now what?
Not predicting, just supposing.....
For that reason....that......
ASU can't happen without a commitment from Tempe, which means that the 150K Sq ft annex can't start being built until there is a commitment from Tempe....
And, that a relocation, if it has to happen because there isn't a commitment from Tempe, has to happen starting in mid June (more or less)...
Then, I suppose Bettman will have to tell Meruelo that there is a deadline for Tempe to sign off, and if that deadline isn't met, then.......???
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
I get why he's mad, but he should've seen it coming. The NHL's history in this whole fiasco since the AMF was pulled was to hit below the belt & fabricate a story that fits their agenda. The bigger problem is the few major news outlets that actually cover this story never have the balls to call out Uncle Gary on it. They're too afraid to lose their access or piss off their bosses.
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