Proposal: Curtis Lazar for Tobias Rieder

[Vatican Roulette]

This doesn't save Ottawa any real money. They need a replacement player for Boro, so the real savings is only about 300k, and as down on Boro most Sens fans on this board seem to be, would they rather have Michael "brick skates" Kostka in his spot just to save 300k?

So if Rieder is asking for 2.75 and won't budge, or in your scenario he meets half way at 2.5, the savings from ditching Boro still make him 2.3M compared to Lazar at 1.2M (assuming he hits his bonuses) or 800k (no signing bonus this year contract slide) if he doesn't.

Unless Lazar breaks out this year which would be a good problem to his, his bridge will be DIRT cheap like all of Ottawa's other bridges. Strictly from a financial point of view, there is no way to argue that this would make sense for Ottawa.

Now without all the moving Boro baloney since that makes zero sense for Ottawa. We're talking about 800k-1.2M this year vs 2.5-2.75M this year. So as much as almost 2M in added salary. I am no expert on Rieder, so I'll let other people debate whether he is worth potentially adding 2M in salary this year when Ottawa has a budget and still needs an improvement to their bottom 6. But that is the facts financially about this trade. There is no other way to spin it. Ottawa takes on almost 2M in added salary for a bottom 6 player if they take on Rieder.

I think it's worth it for Ottawa. Rieder is a great bottom six option.

Too way forward with smarts and skill.

 

[rt]

Why not from a cash perspective?

As another poster already mentioned, Borowieciki is filling a hole right now that needs to be filled regardless. Ottawa needs 7 defensemen. Even if you replace Claesson + Borowiecki with Claesson + Chabot, Ottawa saves, what? 200k? Hardly a big difference in salary and possible a big difference in "one-ice play" Definitely wont make up the larger salary difference between Lazar and Reider salary-wise. Especially if you aren't among those convinced Reider will be significantly better than Lazar next season (which i don't think is a given)

If anything, Fans want to UPGRADE Borowiecki's position with more money, not get rid of him to save money. Fans want to get rid of Boro's 1.1 million so they can use the extra budget space + Boro's money to get one of the purportedly "cheap" UFA left side defensemen out there. Ottawa might have up to 2+ million in extra budget space for an upgrade even without a trade.

If you think Lazar is going to match Rieder's production next season, you'd be insane to trade Lazar for Rieder. You only do this if you love Rieder's innate ability to generate tons of breakaways, his refined defensive/PK ability, and you think he's going to outpace Lazar by 15 or more points next season.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

If you think Lazar is going to match Rieder's production next season, you'd be insane to trade Lazar for Rieder. You only do this if you love Rieder's innate ability to generate tons of breakaways, his refined defensive/PK ability, and you think he's going to outpace Lazar by 15 or more points next season.

...and this is why Ottawa does it. Gives Ottawa a serious PK threat to score short-handed, while also producing all around the line-up.

IMO, it gives Ottawa that solid bottom 6 player that can change a game.

 

[sens613]

...and this is why Ottawa does it. Gives Ottawa a serious PK threat to score short-handed, while also producing all around the line-up.

IMO, it gives Ottawa that solid bottom 6 player that can change a game.

Love the idea of him with pageau as our skilled annoying cycling all heart third line

 

[Boud]

I'd do it as a Sens fan

 

[Hale The Villain]

I'd do it as as a Sens fan.

Hoffman - Turris - Stone
MacArthur - Brassard - Ryan
Smith - Pageau - Rieder

That's a loaded top 9.

 

[Neiler]

I don't do this as a Sens fan.

The Sens are fine with him on the roster, he's a hard worker and a very positive personality. He has plenty of room to grow at only age 21. I'd rather keep him and see what comes of it.

 

[rt]

There's a cliche on these boards that's a total fallacy "if both sides hate it, must be fair". Which is, of course, an absurd claim. If both sides hate it, it's just bad. It says nothing about value.

I think a truer statement is that if both sides are split down the middle it must be fair.

 

[rt]

I don't do this as a Sens fan.

The Sens are fine with him on the roster, he's a hard worker and a very positive personality. He has plenty of room to grow at only age 21. I'd rather keep him and see what comes of it.

OT:

I'm assuming that's Oscar Moller in your avatar/username. I loved that prospect. Can't believe his energetic, but calculated play didn't translate. Seemed like a perfect fit for the new NHL in a checking role at least.

 

[Neiler]

OT:

I'm assuming that's Oscar Moller in your avatar/username. I loved that prospect. Can't believe his energetic, but calculated play didn't translate. Seemed like a perfect fit for the new NHL in a checking role at least.

You are correct, and I can't believe it either. He's not the biggest guy out there but he is a great playoff performer and has been a key contributor on several teams in the KHL and SHL over the last number of years.

As recently as this summer he was hoping to get another shot over here but nothing happened. I always thought he'd be a perfect guy to give a 3RW spot to but it never came to be. I assume his choice of agent (Elefalk, I believe) may be the ultimate reason he's never been on anyone's radar because he has the skill to be here.

 

[KingTux]

Tobias Rieder is 23 years old. He has two NHL seasons under his belt.
1. 21pts
2. 37pts

Curtis Lazar is 21 years old. He has two NHL seasons under his belt.
1. 15pts
2. 20pts

Both players are trusted PKers on their respective clubs.

Rieder is rumored to be asking for less than 3m per season but at least 500kay more per year than Arizona is offering.

He shouldn't break the bank, but he'll certainly cost more than Lazar next season.

Lazar also has the versatility of possibly playing center at some point.

Rieder is definitely a little more proven, though. And should be no worse than a 40-45pt NHL winger with PK ability.

We would hope Lazar has that same upside or better, but he hasn't shown it year (though he is two years younger so it's not apples to apples).

As for the cash:

http://arizonasports.com/story/750850/coyotes-notes-coyotes-rieder-seeks-2-year-deal/


Craig Morgan is basically the mouthpiece for the organization. He's fed directly from Coyotes management.

If Sens fans want to even cash out a bit, I'd be happy to take Borowiecki off their hands. I'd add a mid-round pick, too, if necessary. Something to help make up for that 2nd rounder lost in the Brassard deal. How about whichever 3rd we don't have to give to Florida in '17 (either the AZ 3rd or the DET 3rd [previously acquired in the Letunov to SJS deal] as a part of the Lawson Crouse deal?

So...

To ARI:
Lazar
Borowiecki

To OTT:
Rieder
'17 3rd

Feel free to flame and bash.

That's a great offer. Like others said, Boro doesn't hold much value although he has a lot of leadership. He was the captain in the AHL and often wore the 'A' in the NHL. He could fit well on a 7th defenseman spot in a young rebuilding team...

ding ding ding

From a more or less neutral POV, I would say yes.

 

[SensNation613]

I would do this as a Sens fan.

 

[IamJust0ne]

Done from a Sens POV. We'd definitely need to sign a bottom 4 D though

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Done from a Sens POV. We'd definitely need to sign a bottom 4 D though

Shouldn't be too hard with the players left in UFA.

http://www.generalfanager.com/freeagents?expiryyear=2016&position=D&shoots=Both&team=all&UFA=1

 

[edguy]

Shouldn't be too hard with the players left in UFA.

http://www.generalfanager.com/freeagents?expiryyear=2016&position=D&shoots=Both&team=all&UFA=1

Im still begging for Kyle Quincey to Ottawa...

 

[tony d]

I like Lazar but I think I would do this deal.

 

[Xspyrit]

Thank you very much RT, this is an excellent proposal, and very realistic, refreshing to see another team's fan not trying to fleece us

You give up more value because Lazar will be cost controlled a bit longer and will cost less in the next few years. However I don't think Ottawa makes this deal because of how much they have faith in Lazar. They also value Boro more than fans because of the toughness, leadership and local ties that he brings on a cheap deal. People scapegoat him a lot on HF Sens for some reason (always need 3-4 scapegoats EVERY season) but he's doing a fine job as the 7th D-man (that's what ice-time says but somehow people act like he was getting top-4 ice-time). So Ottawa wouldn't do it because they probably think that Lazar will reach Tobias level in the short future but for cheaper

Personnally I'd do it for those reasons :

- Ottawa doesn't need Boro anymore, particularly next season. They have Jaros and Englund who will be ready soon but also Harpur and Chabot. Claesson will be there this season (Wideman is the #5, Boro and Claesson are #6 & 7). If they were trading Boro, they should sign a veteran UFA for 1 year (should be cheap)

- getting a 3rd is always useful and they used picks in recent trades so it'd be good to recover one

- yes Rieder would cost more but sign him 2 years and then trade him when it's time to extend more important players like Stone and Karlsson

Sucks to lose Lazar but you offer enough incentives for me to approve the deal

 

[King In The North]

I often thought Lazar could pan out to be Mike Fisher. Do the Sens value him as such?

 

[rt]

Thank you very much RT, this is an excellent proposal, and very realistic, refreshing to see another team's fan not trying to fleece us

You give up more value because Lazar will be cost controlled a bit longer and will cost less in the next few years. However I don't think Ottawa makes this deal because of how much they have faith in Lazar. They also value Boro more than fans because of the toughness, leadership and local ties that he brings on a cheap deal. People scapegoat him a lot on HF Sens for some reason (always need 3-4 scapegoats EVERY season) but he's doing a fine job as the 7th D-man (that's what ice-time says but somehow people act like he was getting top-4 ice-time). So Ottawa wouldn't do it because they probably think that Lazar will reach Tobias level in the short future but for cheaper

Personnally I'd do it for those reasons :

- Ottawa doesn't need Boro anymore, particularly next season. They have Jaros and Englund who will be ready soon but also Harpur and Chabot. Claesson will be there this season (Wideman is the #5, Boro and Claesson are #6 & 7). If they were trading Boro, they should sign a veteran UFA for 1 year (should be cheap)

- getting a 3rd is always useful and they used picks in recent trades so it'd be good to recover one

- yes Rieder would cost more but sign him 2 years and then trade him when it's time to extend more important players like Stone and Karlsson

Sucks to lose Lazar but you offer enough incentives for me to approve the deal

Alright. Let's make it happen then. Haha.

 

[Xspyrit]

hahaha Yeah it's not as easy but Yeah I think most Sens fans would do it even If we like Lazar, he's not untouchable. Some would do it just for not having to see Boro in a Sens Jersey anymore lol

I often thought Lazar could pan out to be Mike Fisher. Do the Sens value him as such?

Hard to Know exactly but he has been brought the same way because he already had a "mature game" in a mature body

 

[rt]

It's seems like most Sens fans so far are in favor of this. It also seems like most Coyotes fans are as well (though that discussion is in another thtead). 60/40ish on both sides, roughly, from what I've seen.

 

[BonkTastic]

Don't love it, don't hate it, but I have to admit that the fact that Rieder is a RW and we are woefully thin on that side definitely nudges me a little more towards being favorable towards this deal.

 

[Fourier]

Rieder had played primarily LW. He should be able to play RW if required. He's done some of that.

For what it is worth Rieder played mostly RW here in Juniors. He played some center as well because of injuries and did very well, but I don't really remember him playing much at all on the right side.

This is an interesting deal. I love both these players and followed both for a long time.

 

[spader]

I often thought Lazar could pan out to be Mike Fisher. Do the Sens value him as such?

His trajectory is similar, stats and age wise. If Lazar can hit 15/9/24 this year, he'll be a match for Fisher's stats at this age and with the same number of years of experience. I think people forget that the guy is only 21 and still somewhat raw.

My expectation is that this season will give us a better idea of the type of player that he can become.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Im still begging for Kyle Quincey to Ottawa...

Detroit fans were fans of his game last year and the year before. Solid bottom pair guy, would be a great fit.