Prospect Info: Current #2 overall poll and discussion

[Captain3rdLine]

I don't really know what that would potentially cost, but playing armchair

#2, Holtz, Tatar/Johnsson/Zacha & #141

For

Pasternak & #91

It’s definitely not costing that without an extension. I’m not giving up #2 unless there’s an extension in place or we’re very confident that one will be worked out shortly.

 

[StevenToddIves]

It’s definitely not costing that without an extension. I’m not giving up #2 unless there’s an extension in place or we’re very confident that one will be worked out shortly.

Honestly, I think people just don't realize the sheer enormity of Slafkovsky's upside. And what's funny, is the biggest reason is a 20-game stretch where he played bottom-line minutes without PP time in his first taste of a men's league as a 17 year old, in a season where he otherwise completely dominated. It's almost funny, in a sense.

 

[LeedsMonster]

Gonna preface by saying I like Slaf and I won't be disappointed if we take him. I voted trade/ other because I'd like to trade it for Tkachuk or pick Gauthier.

 

[glenwo2]

Gonna preface by saying I like Slaf and I won't be disappointed if we take him. I voted trade/ other because I'd like to trade it for Tkachuk or pick Gauthier.

For Tkachuk?

Didn't you hear? We should trade the pick for DeBrincat because...REASONS. (insert "shocked face" here)

 

[Devilsfan92]

It’s definitely not costing that without an extension. I’m not giving up #2 unless there’s an extension in place or we’re very confident that one will be worked out shortly.

It's not going to be cheap, and yeah the #2 holds a lot of value but if there's no extension to be worked out, and/or the team isn't as competitive as we'd hope you deal Pasternak as a midseason or deadline deal to get I'd say at least a 1st+

Copp just got 2 2nds, so I think at least a 1st reasonable, and from what I've read next years draft is very deep and Slavkovsky wouldn't even be #2, so I kinda look at it like that.

Holtz, Tatar/Johnsson/Zacha & #141
For
Pasternak + #91

Then either Slavkovsky for Pasternak @ 8 years or Slavkovsky for a 2023 1st, plus maybe an additional asset
Or maybe even a self rental with another chance to extend with the risk of losing him to free agency

 

[Saugus]

The thing about trading with Arizona in that scenario is this : Why would they trade with us when they KNOW who we will pick?

Let's say MTL goes Cooley instead of Wright...It's a bit more obvious we are going Slaf than Wright so as incompetent as the management in Arizona is, even they would be like "Nah. We good" and just wait for them to be on the clock to get Wright.

They might do it just to guarantee that their guy will be available. We might not be able to extract that much extra value out of them, but if they think that we could potentially trade down with Seattle (meaning they could miss out on both of the top centers in the draft), they might go for it.

Not enough, imo.

BTW, I don't think I've ever seen you around here before so nice to meet you.

You have to be the oldest member of these forums (and I here I thought Saugus was).

You're a true OG, sir.

Wait, what? I joined after you...

 

[glenwo2]

They might do it just to guarantee that their guy will be available. We might not be able to extract that much extra value out of them, but if they think that we could potentially trade down with Seattle (meaning they could miss out on both of the top centers in the draft), they might go for it.



Wait, what? I joined after you...

yeah I know. That was just a light-hearted joke messin' with ya.

But 2002....man...he's like a founding member of this forum.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

yeah I know. That was just a light-hearted joke messin' with ya.

But 2002....man...he's like a founding member of this forum.

no wonder this site feels like its from the 90s...it almost was....yes even with the update, the site feels ancient.

 

[goonybird]

Is Slafkovsky going to actually reach his upside or is he another big body whose big body is just for show?

I feel that size is a huge part in him being ranked above Cooley

 

[MauDevils]

Honestly, I think people just don't realize the sheer enormity of Slafkovsky's upside. And what's funny, is the biggest reason is a 20-game stretch where he played bottom-line minutes without PP time in his first taste of a men's league as a 17 year old, in a season where he otherwise completely dominated. It's almost funny, in a sense.

This stuff is becoming quite the stretch. It's a weak draft and he's a late riser. I'd say "enormous upside" is extremely unlikely.

You also really like to pick and choose which parts of his season you look at. What about his 7 points in 18 playoff games during his "domination"

He also didn't put up a single point against good teams at World's, did he?

Let's not pretend like he's not a huge risk. He's going to be the worst Liiga performer taken this high in decades?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Is Slafkovsky going to actually reach his upside or is he another big body whose big body is just for show?

I feel that size is a huge part in him being ranked above Cooley

I think there’s a very good chance he becomes a star.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

What are people thoughts on flipping Pick 2 and 2nd Round Pick and expendable player/s (Boqvist, Zacha, Johnsson, Tatar) to Columbus in a package for Pick 6 and Pick 12.

We keep Pick 6 and select one of Jiricek/Nemec/Gauthier.

And use Pick 12 as a trade asset - to Minnesota for Kevin Fiala for example.

 

[goonybird]

I think there’s a very good chance he becomes a star.

Probably will. Hopefully he can get more playing time to show it. Would like to see him get more nasty in his game tho

 

[Captain3rdLine]

What are people thoughts on flipping Pick 2 and 2nd Round Pick and expendable player/s (Boqvist, Zacha, Johnsson, Tatar) to Columbus in a package for Pick 6 and Pick 12.

We keep Pick 6 and select one of Jiricek/Nemec/Gauthier.

And use Pick 12 as a trade asset - to Minnesota for Kevin Fiala for example.

I’d rather just take Slafkovsky.
We also don’t know if Columbus would want to do that.

 

[JimEIV]

Honestly, I think people just don't realize the sheer enormity of Slafkovsky's upside. And what's funny, is the biggest reason is a 20-game stretch where he played bottom-line minutes without PP time in his first taste of a men's league as a 17 year old, in a season where he otherwise completely dominated. It's almost funny, in a sense.

It doesn't make much sense to me to make such an issue of his 31 game Liiga stats while at the same time dismissing out of hand his 15 games at over a ppg in the Olympics and World Championships.

I do think it's extremely shortsighted to compare Slafkovsky's 31 games in Liiga to other Finn's, who almost every single one of them to a man had previous Liiga experience before their draft year while having the comfortability of their home country and having come up through the Finnish system.

I hope we draft him. I love the package he brings and could careless about his stats in his first taste of Liiga at 17 years old.

 

[LeedsMonster]

What are people thoughts on flipping Pick 2 and 2nd Round Pick and expendable player/s (Boqvist, Zacha, Johnsson, Tatar) to Columbus in a package for Pick 6 and Pick 12.

We keep Pick 6 and select one of Jiricek/Nemec/Gauthier.

And use Pick 12 as a trade asset - to Minnesota for Kevin Fiala for example.

I like this idea. I think Gauthier will end up the better player. We could use 12 to trade for William Nylander

It doesn't make much sense to me to make such an issue of his 31 game Liiga stats while at the same time dismissing out of hand his 15 games at over a ppg in the Olympics and World Championships.

I do think it's extremely shortsighted to compare Slafkovsky's 31 games in Liiga to other Finn's, who almost every single one of them to a man had previous Liiga experience before their draft year while having the comfortability of their home country and having come up through the Finnish system.

I hope we draft him. I love the package he brings and could careless about his stats in his first taste of Liiga at 17 years old.

You sure those Liiga numbers aren't a disgrace?

In all fairness questions about his production are fair but probably overblown given what he's shown playing with and against actual NHL players. I like STIs Jagr comparison style wise, and if he can be half the player prime Jagr was, the pick is a homerun.

 

[StevenToddIves]

This stuff is becoming quite the stretch. It's a weak draft and he's a late riser. I'd say "enormous upside" is extremely unlikely.

You also really like to pick and choose which parts of his season you look at. What about his 7 points in 18 playoff games during his "domination"

He also didn't put up a single point against good teams at World's, did he?

Let's not pretend like he's not a huge risk. He's going to be the worst Liiga performer taken this high in decades?

Cale Makar was a "late riser" in a "weak draft". I'm not sure how it affected his upside.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

This stuff is becoming quite the stretch. It's a weak draft and he's a late riser. I'd say "enormous upside" is extremely unlikely.

You also really like to pick and choose which parts of his season you look at. What about his 7 points in 18 playoff games during his "domination"

He also didn't put up a single point against good teams at World's, did he?

Let's not pretend like he's not a huge risk. He's going to be the worst Liiga performer taken this high in decades?

Sorry but someone is gonna be an absolute star in this draft. I would bet on Slafkovsky. Players from weak drafts have upside too.

And he actually looked very good against the good teams in the Worlds and he scored against Switzerland and he also had a goal and an assist against Denmark who had a pretty good team. But if you don’t consider Denmark a good team than you’re just talking about 3 games against Canada, Finland, and Switzerland. He looked good against and could’ve had multiple points against those teams apart from the goal he scored against the Swiss.

The reality though is that even a team like Kazakhstan is better than any OHL or USHL team and it’s a high stakes tournament.

 

[goonybird]

It doesn't make much sense to me to make such an issue of his 31 game Liiga stats while at the same time dismissing out of hand his 15 games at over a ppg in the Olympics and World Championships.

I do think it's extremely shortsighted to compare Slafkovsky's 31 games in Liiga to other Finn's, who almost every single one of them to a man had previous Liiga experience before their draft year while having the comfortability of their home country and having come up through the Finnish system.

I hope we draft him. I love the package he brings and could careless about his stats in his first taste of Liiga at 17 years old.

He also came up through the Finnish system.

I don't like using any international #s really. They're all-star tournaments at best and exhibitions at worst. Prefer to see how people play coached properly, with players they've adapted to, in roles (big and small), etc.

Slafkovsky's biggest statistical strength is probably his Liiga playoff numbers which were strong. Still think at 6'4" he should be swinging junior players around by their ankles, but at worst it's a passive advantage that'll help him keep him from getting tossed around like Hughes was in year 1

 

[Captain3rdLine]

He also came up through the Finnish system.

I don't like using any international #s really. They're all-star tournaments at best and exhibitions at worst. Prefer to see how people play coached properly, with players they've adapted to, in roles (big and small), etc.

Slafkovsky's biggest statistical strength is probably his Liiga playoff numbers which were strong. Still think at 6'4" he should be swinging junior players around by their ankles, but at worst it's a passive advantage that'll help him keep him from getting tossed around like Hughes was in year 1

Which junior players should Slafkovsky have been swinging around by their ankles? He was playing in a mens league.

And not using International numbers is stupid. They’re aren’t remotely comparable to exhibitions or all-star games. You don’t think these players are playing really hard in big tournaments for their country? That’s ridiculous. If anything it’s a better measure of a players pure talent in a competitive environment but less structured environment. I’ll take that over his production in a defensive system in a LIIGA bottom 6. And it’s not like he was a defensive liability at all. He was blocking shots while and staying in lanes but he also looked to be following the team structure well.
Less set in structure can give a better read on the players natural decision making, reading of the play and IQ.

 

[goonybird]

Which junior players should Slafkovsky have been swinging around by their ankles? He was playing in a mens league.

And not using International numbers is stupid. They’re aren’t remotely comparable to exhibitions or all-star games. You don’t think these players are playing really hard in big tournaments for their country? That’s ridiculous. If anything it’s a better measure of a players pure talent in a competitive environment. I’ll take that over his production in a defensive system in a LIIGA bottom 6.

you turds will get your back up over anything.

I'm saying the competition is tighter, more well-coached in league play instead of a tournament where they have 2 weeks of prep.

I'm saying I'd like to see him push kids around in junior tournaments but I'm not going to weigh those results the same as their actual play in league playoffs.

I never said he was a defensive liability. I never said he didn't block shots or stayed in lanes. I never said he wasn't following team structure. I never said NOT use international numbers. I never said players don't play hard in them. I never said he wasn't playing in a mens league.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

you turds will get your back up over anything.

I'm saying the competition is tighter, more well-coached in league play. I'm saying I'd like to see him push kids around in junior tournaments and show off his "pure talent in a competitive environment". and I like seeing how players play when given defensive roles

Well he’s done well defensively. What junior tournaments are we talking about?

As I added above less structure can give you a much better read on his decision making, reading of the play and IQ. Rather than just watching him do exactly what the coach tells him to do. It gives you a better read IMO on his actual talent than watching him in the bottom 6 of a structured defensive system where he’s mostly trying to do what the coach is telling him to do. That’s not what teams are looking to draft him for.

 

[goonybird]

I expect top draft stock to stick out at an international tournament where groups of players who rarely play together have 2 weeks or so of prep time and it's essentially all about individual skill instead of system play.

When top draft prospects don't stand out under those circumstances I get worried and dig deeper into the numbers and watch their shifts to see what's going on.

MacKinnon at the WJC is a good example. I expect them to crush that tournament but they got thrown into bullshit roles they don't normally and never would play. But I also didn't get overexcited about Drouin's or Strome's. They were great individual talents that struggle to click in more disciplined scenarios

 

[LouJersey]

Not enough, imo.

BTW, I don't think I've ever seen you around here before so nice to meet you.

You have to be the oldest member of these forums (and I here I thought Saugus was).

You're a true OG, sir.

lol. Bruins fan who lives in northern jersey. Was in to deep w the Bruins when the devils came to exist but have been to about 100 of their games including first ever playoff game which was the best live game I have ever seen. I watch as many devils games as I can and always want them to do well unless they play the Bs. I really like what they are building

yeah I know. That was just a light-hearted joke messin' with ya.

But 2002....man...he's like a founding member of this forum.

There was a forum before it I was a part of in 97 or 98. It’s been great

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I expect top draft stock to stick out at an international tournament where groups of players who rarely play together have 2 weeks or so of prep time and it's essentially all about individual skill instead of system play.

When top draft prospects don't stand out under those circumstances I get worried and dig deeper into the numbers and watch their shifts to see what's going on. Huberdeau and MacKinnon at the WJC is a good example. I expect them to crush that tournament but they got thrown into bullshit roles they don't normally and never would play

Exactly. It’s a better read of their actual skill, hockey IQ and talent. And there is actually a good amount of systems so there’s an actual element of who can adjust to new systems and structure the quickest.

What about when a top prospect sits in a bottom 6 defensive role in the LIIGA most of the season? That’s certainly not gonna be his role in the NHL.

Slafkovsky can play within a system if that’s what you’re wondering. He did it in LIIGA and you could even see it in small moments in the Worlds with some of the things he was doing.