Prospect Info: Current #2 overall poll and discussion

[Hisch13r]

I disagree I don’t believe we have wingers. You named Bratt,yegor and mercer as of right now that’s it. Holtz and gritsyuk still haven’t cracked tbe nhl lineup and as they looks of it zacha,Tatar and Johansson will be gone in a year

I mean if you want to say that it’s still 5 pieces of a top 6 and the best 3C in the league. It’s really not hard to figure out how things will fit together. Those spots aren’t overly hard to fill. You can put any adequate winger with Jack and it’ll work. You can find 2 3rd line wings with ease.

 

[Hisch13r]

Like I said before - its a question of tool pack for specific role. We saw how poorly Hughes did play on the wing. Im not interesting in third line center Shane Wright 50-60 points in ideal world isn't a thing I want from forward, whom I picked by second overall pick. Slafkovsky has much better tools to play on the wing. His ceiling is higher.
And there is no question whom I wanna pick between top 2.
Its a question between third line center or questionable winger Shane Wright(who isn't the best interior forward and isn't the best forechecker) and Nemec/Jiricek/Gauithier+. Gauthier could easily ends it as a better winger. Jiricek and Nemec could easily be top 2 defensemen. Especially if Nemec will start to be much more pro active and challenge opponents.
Potential trading with Columbus could bring us top 2 defenseman or strong physical scoring winger, who can replace injured center, plus something with top -6/top-4 potential. Shane Wright bring us third line center or winger with questionable impact. Player who can replace injured center and being better version of himself. In the limited timeline. I prefer trading with Columbus.

Slaf’s ceiling is not higher. Slaf’s ceiling is probably like Rantanen. Wright’s is probably like Tavares. Prime Tavares>Rantanen. Wright’s ceiling has gotten so underrated because he had an underwhelming year which came after he had a full year of no competitive hockey outside of the U18 where he had a historically great performance

 

[My3Sons]

I mean if you want to say that it’s still 5 pieces of a top 6 and the best 3C in the league. It’s really not hard to figure out how things will fit together. Those spots aren’t overly hard to fill. You can put any adequate winger with Jack and it’ll work. You can find 2 3rd line wings with ease.

I don't think it will be so easy to find 2 wings to play with Hischier on the third line. He had a hard time dragging around Vesey and Zacha.

 

[imMagnum]

My draft plan:

A) Wright goes 1 - Take Slaf at 2.

B) Slaf goes 1:
1) If Fitz sees a trade opportunity for a current NHL player, let him do it. I trust his trade management. DO NOT trade down for additional picks.
2) If no trade opportunity, take Wright. Enjoy being stacked in elite young talent in the most important position in the NHL. Figure out the roster situation after.

C) Cooley goes 1 (obviously unlikely):
1) See how much AZ wants Wright or Slaf. Trust Fitz to find excellent value trading down to #3. Pick who AZ doesn't. DO NOT trade to #4 or higher.
2) Take Slaf.

Draft board:
1A): Slaf
1B): Wright
*If we walk away from the draft without either of these two OR an excellent Fitz trade asset, this will be very disappointing).
3) Cooley (Neutral pick. Disappointing if we pass on Wright or Slaf, however I could convince myself to get behind this. Similar to picking Holtz over Rossi).

In no scenario should we walk away with either of Jiricek or Nemec. I like Jiricek, however there is a tier gap between him and the top two. I have no idea why people like Nemec. It would be extremely disappointing leaving the draft with him as our top pick when we had #2 overall.

 

[Saugus]

Here's a fun mock draft hypothetical, contingent on Montreal picking Slafkovsky and the Devils trading #2 for #6 and #12 (not that we know Columbus would agree, of course):

1 MTL Slafkovsky
2 CLB Wright
3 ARI Cooley
4 SEA Nemec
5 PHI Gauthier
6 NJ Jiricek
7 OTT Geekie
8 DET Kasper
9 BUF Savoie
10 ANH Kemell
11 SJ Lambert
12 NJ Yurov
13 NYI Chesley

Of course, the #6 pick would be contingent on Philadelphia's pick, as I've heard equal stories of their interest in Jiricek and Gauthier. So, now let's go with hypothetical #2, where the Flyers take Jiricek, because I think that also affects the #12 pick.

1 MTL Slafkovsky
2 CLB Wright
3 ARI Cooley
4 SEA Nemec
5 PHI Jiricek
6 NJ Gauthier
7 OTT Geekie
8 DET Kasper
9 BUF Savoie
10 ANH Kemell
11 SJ Lambert
12 NJ Chesley
13 NYI Yurov

I'm fine with either of these scenarios, because the Devils get a RD who can partner long-term with Luke Hughes on the top pairing, as well as the interior/power forward they need for the top 6. But again, would Columbus be interested in such a deal, even as much as they need a #1 C for the foreseeable future?

I'd prefer the scenario where we just keep the pick and take Wright if Slafkovsky goes #1. But if we do trade down, I think either of those scenarios would be ok.

Columbus might want another prospect or perhaps our 2nd rounder this year to balance the value a bit though.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Slaf’s ceiling is not higher. Slaf’s ceiling is probably like Rantanen. Wright’s is probably like Tavares. Prime Tavares>Rantanen. Wright’s ceiling has gotten so underrated because he had an underwhelming year which came after he had a full year of no competitive hockey outside of the U18 where he had a historically great performance

Slafkovsky’s ceiling seems higher to me. Much more physically gifted. Both have questions of if they will hit their ceilings. Rantanen’s career high in points is also higher than Tavares, as is his average points per game through age 25. Different scoring environment and quality of linemates, but still. He could still hit another level, he’s gotten better and better.

 

[Hisch13r]

Slafkovsky’s ceiling seems higher to me. Much more physically gifted. Both have questions of if they will hit their ceilings. Rantanen’s career high in points is also higher than Tavares, as is his average points per game through age 25. Different scoring environment and quality of linemates, but still. He could still hit another level, he’s gotten better and better.

Rantanen is playing in a higher scoring era as the 3rd best player on his super stacked team. He has one top 10 PPG finish which where he was 7th and one top 10 pt finish where he was 6th. Tavares had a year where he was 10th in PPG and 8th in pts, 4th in PPG, 2nd in pts where he finished a pt below the Art Ross winner and was 4th in PPG. Tavares was carrying around guys who would've been middling guys without him and giving them into multiple 30 goal years and near PPG seasons. It's not even a question which player's better

 

[markog]

Just trade the pick.

 

[Devils731]

Just trade the pick.

Don’t trade the pick unless getting above expected value (which nobody is likely to give).

 

[markog]

I'm still on board with Slafkovsky. A highly skilled winger with size and willingness to use it in board battles is exactly what we need.

The next Kakko.

 

[severian]

The next Kakko.

I don't think Kaako's story is entirely written yet, but this is definitely my fear with Slaf. Kaako and Poolparty make me nervous about having super high expectations.

 

[StevenToddIves]

The next Kakko.

Can we stop with the false equivalencies, please? It does not advance the debate to invent a narrative based on no truth whatsoever. Slafkovsky has very little in common with Kakko. They play completely different styles, with completely different skill sets.

 

[markog]

Can we stop with the false equivalencies, please? It does not advance the debate to invent a narrative based on no truth whatsoever. Slafkovsky has very little in common with Kakko. They play completely different styles, with completely different skill sets.

I meant to say both average skaters and if Slafkovsky is drafted by New Jersey, both were drafted by teams that are suspect in developing young top prospects.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Slaf’s ceiling is not higher. Slaf’s ceiling is probably like Rantanen. Wright’s is probably like Tavares. Prime Tavares>Rantanen. Wright’s ceiling has gotten so underrated because he had an underwhelming year which came after he had a full year of no competitive hockey outside of the U18 where he had a historically great performance

I'm not sure how comparing imperfect comparisons advances the debate over who is better among two draft-eligibles.

Both Wright and Slafkovsky are exceptionally gifted, high-upside prospects. Slafkovsky's combination of playmaking and puckhandling is tops in the draft, but Wright's combination of playmaking and shooting is tops in the draft. They are both very good but not exceptional skaters. They both have very high IQs, though I'd rank Wright's a bit higher. Slafkovsky has a slightly better compete level in my mind, however. Slafkovsky has better size/strength, but Wright is more advanced defensively and plays center.

Ultimately, I give Wright the slight nod, but it's close. If both Wright and Slafkovsky approach their ceilings, they will be elite NHL players for a very long time. The Devils are lucky to be picking #2 and have the opportunity to get one of them.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Rantanen is playing in a higher scoring era as the 3rd best player on his super stacked team. He has one top 10 PPG finish which where he was 7th and one top 10 pt finish where he was 6th. Tavares had a year where he was 10th in PPG and 8th in pts, 4th in PPG, 2nd in pts where he finished a pt below the Art Ross winner and was 4th in PPG. Tavares was carrying around guys who would've been middling guys without him and giving them into multiple 30 goal years and near PPG seasons. It's not even a question which player's better

You may be right that there’s no question who is better. Factoring in playoff stats it doesn’t look very close. 77 points in 61 games vs 36 points in 44 games. It is definitely close not considering that though.

Also, Rantanen is better away from MacKinnon than the other way around.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I'd prefer the scenario where we just keep the pick and take Wright if Slafkovsky goes #1. But if we do trade down, I think either of those scenarios would be ok.

Columbus might want another prospect or perhaps our 2nd rounder this year to balance the value a bit though.

This is not the year to trade a second round pick, especially as high as #37 overall. With the possibility of an elite Russian player falling, the value could be huge. I'd insist on trading a prospect instead, and no one in the ostensible top 4 of Hughes/Holtz/Gritsyuk/Mukhamadullin.

 

[Nubmer6]

Here's a fun mock draft hypothetical, contingent on Montreal picking Slafkovsky and the Devils trading #2 for #6 and #12 (not that we know Columbus would agree, of course):

1 MTL Slafkovsky
2 CLB Wright
3 ARI Cooley
4 SEA Nemec
5 PHI Gauthier
6 NJ Jiricek
7 OTT Geekie
8 DET Kasper
9 BUF Savoie
10 ANH Kemell
11 SJ Lambert
12 NJ Yurov
13 NYI Chesley

Of course, the #6 pick would be contingent on Philadelphia's pick, as I've heard equal stories of their interest in Jiricek and Gauthier. So, now let's go with hypothetical #2, where the Flyers take Jiricek, because I think that also affects the #12 pick.

1 MTL Slafkovsky
2 CLB Wright
3 ARI Cooley
4 SEA Nemec
5 PHI Jiricek
6 NJ Gauthier
7 OTT Geekie
8 DET Kasper
9 BUF Savoie
10 ANH Kemell
11 SJ Lambert
12 NJ Chesley
13 NYI Yurov

I'm fine with either of these scenarios, because the Devils get a RD who can partner long-term with Luke Hughes on the top pairing, as well as the interior/power forward they need for the top 6. But again, would Columbus be interested in such a deal, even as much as they need a #1 C for the foreseeable future?

I'd prefer Miroshnichenko in scenario 1, but maybe it's a bit early to take a gamble on him there. I like Chesley enough to consider him in BOTH scenarios.

 

[Guadana]

Slaf’s ceiling is not higher. Slaf’s ceiling is probably like Rantanen. Wright’s is probably like Tavares. Prime Tavares>Rantanen. Wright’s ceiling has gotten so underrated because he had an underwhelming year which came after he had a full year of no competitive hockey outside of the U18 where he had a historically great performance

Will see.

And I prefer Rantanen over Tavares. Btw. How Tavares things going? How rantanen's?
Even your own example is good. Thanks. I will use it next time.

 

[Guadana]

All of which is fair but I’m not sure Wright can’t be a good wing player for Hughes or Hischier. I will defer to you and @StevenToddIves on these issues since you have put in the time and effort to justify your opinions and you both share very detailed explanations of why you see the prospects the way you do. I’m not opposed to a trade down in any scenario. If NJ traded 2 for 6 and 12 and got Gauthier and another top prosect at 12 (Yurov?) I’m perfectly fine with that. It’s good value. I am just suggesting that the NJ scouts may see Wright as a good fit on wing also. Or that they can move him for a good young vet and a lower first although the names that keep getting offered like Miller and DeBrincat and Nylander aren’t great fits because of contracts.

Trading second jackets first round pick is okey for me too. But the thing I want doesn't mean the thing will happened. I think Fitz will draft Wright if Slaf will gone.

I didn't say that Wright will be bad winger. I don't think so. I just saying Slafkovsky will be better winger. And when I have two great centers who locked for the job, I want to find the best defensemen, best goalies and best wingers for them. I don't wanna limit their potential and potential of Wright. Guy, I did mention before, said about Tavares and rantanen. You can see how Rantanen did help to Nathan to maximize his potential. And we have two "potential" Nathan's. Its a waist of our Nathan's to add John. Someone could say "MORE NATHANS FOR THE GOD OF NATHAN'S", but I prefer one Rantanen as a good present or a good sacrifice.

 

[My3Sons]

Trading second jackets first round pick is okey for me too. But the thing I want doesn't mean the thing will happened. I think Fitz will draft Wright if Slaf will gone.

I didn't say that Wright will be bad winger. I don't think so. I just saying Slafkovsky will be better winger. And when I have two great centers who locked for the job, I want to find the best defensemen, best goalies and best wingers for them. I don't wanna limit their potential and potential of Wright. Guy, I did mention before, said about Tavares and rantanen. You can see how Rantanen did help to Nathan to maximize his potential. And we have two "potential" Nathan's. Its a waist of our Nathan's to add John. Someone could say "MORE NATHANS FOR THE GOD OF NATHAN'S", but I prefer one Rantanen as a good present or a good sacrifice.

If you published a book I'd buy it, so long as you only wrote it in English. More Nathans for the God of Nathans is brilliant. Thanks for a good laugh on a tough day for me.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

My draft plan:

A) Wright goes 1 - Take Slaf at 2.

B) Slaf goes 1:
1) If Fitz sees a trade opportunity for a current NHL player, let him do it. I trust his trade management. DO NOT trade down for additional picks.
2) If no trade opportunity, take Wright. Enjoy being stacked in elite young talent in the most important position in the NHL. Figure out the roster situation after.

C) Cooley goes 1 (obviously unlikely):
1) See how much AZ wants Wright or Slaf. Trust Fitz to find excellent value trading down to #3. Pick who AZ doesn't. DO NOT trade to #4 or higher.
2) Take Slaf.

Draft board:
1A): Slaf
1B): Wright
*If we walk away from the draft without either of these two OR an excellent Fitz trade asset, this will be very disappointing).
3) Cooley (Neutral pick. Disappointing if we pass on Wright or Slaf, however I could convince myself to get behind this. Similar to picking Holtz over Rossi).

In no scenario should we walk away with either of Jiricek or Nemec. I like Jiricek, however there is a tier gap between him and the top two. I have no idea why people like Nemec. It would be extremely disappointing leaving the draft with him as our top pick when we had #2 overall.

My A, B and C scenario is fairly similar.

A) Agree with you, if Wright goes no.1, I take Slaf at no.2.

B) If Slaf goes 1, I would entertain trading down. First call would be to Columbus to get Pick 6 and Pick 12. I feel we still fill a team need at Pick 6 with one of Jiricek, Nemec or Gauthier. At Pick 12, it’s a good pick to consider moving for Fiala. Or to Nashville for Askarov. Or if Gauthier is the pick at #6, then Chesley could be on the radar for #12.

C) Pretty much the same as you see if we can get another 2nd round pick for swapping 1 spot with Arizona. Or see if we can get one of Arizona’s late first for a pick swap with our 2nd. Take Slaf at no.3.

 

[MWagg72]

My A, B and C scenario is fairly similar.

A) Agree with you, if Wright goes no.1, I take Slaf at no.2.

B) If Slaf goes 1, I would entertain trading down. First call would be to Columbus to get Pick 6 and Pick 12. I feel we still fill a team need at Pick 6 with one of Jiricek, Nemec or Gauthier. At Pick 12, it’s a good pick to consider moving for Fiala. Or to Nashville for Askarov. Or if Gauthier is the pick at #6, then Chesley could be on the radar for #12.

C) Pretty much the same as you see if we can get another 2nd round pick for swapping 1 spot with Arizona. Or see if we can get one of Arizona’s late first for a pick swap with our 2nd. Take Slaf at no.3.

Has there been any talk of Askarov's availability? He just signed his ELC and is coming to North America so I doubt Nashville will be looking to move him.

 

[glenwo2]

Just trade the pick.

If we didn't win the lotto and stayed at #5, I'd agree.

But we DID so "hell no!" to this.

 

[glenwo2]

I don't think Kaako's story is entirely written yet, but this is definitely my fear with Slaf. Kaako and Poolparty make me nervous about having super high expectations.

Maybe it's time to stop fearing things that won't come to pass.

Kaako is Kaako.

Poolparty is Poolparty.

They are players who are who they are(although, like you said, Kaako just started his NHL career so he may get better).


Slaf is not going to be either because this is not a cut-and-paste thing. Every player is UNIQUE with how they shape out.

For my part(and from what we've seen and from what @StevenToddIves has pointed out), I see more promise in Slaf than either of the above.

 

[Guadana]

If you published a book I'd buy it, so long as you only wrote it in English. More Nathans for the God of Nathans is brilliant. Thanks for a good laugh on a tough day for me.

I will call it "Smartness. Boldness. Modestness."