Prospect Info: Current #2 overall poll and discussion

[Guadana]

That’s what I mean above. He seems to be really hyper focused on pace and basically guys that can just get up and go such as Cooley and Lambert.

But when you look at elite players in the NHL there’s so many that aren’t like that at all and kind of do quite the opposite a lot of the time.

He kept talking about that but I love that part of him.

I can`t say I like scouching. Literally I don`t. But I`m watching him because he helps me to watch on players from the different angles. It`s better than most of scouts, who repeat each others.
But scouching has his own... I would say fashistique vision of the best player. He should have strong straight nose, strong chin, white hairs... I mean, he should be 6`0, he should be elite skater and he should drive the play. And complete every passes he makes. That`s all. It is really... idiotic tunnel vision. And it does work in NHL somewhere, somewhere it`s not. But it is not a thing that brings you wins automatically.

 

[Guadana]

I think you have to choose, you go with a guy who plays at a higher pace.

I know you mention guys above who are successful in the league who may not play at the highest of tempo's, but in general I think the league is playing at higher rates of speed, and Colorado is certainly winning with that formula now.

Stil Slouch has him at 4. Could see him go 2oa. So it's not like he is dogging him. Just pointing out as aspect of his game which could be better.

No, you are not. You choose a guy, you will help you to win. By playing better game for his role.
Colorado are great, but that`s not only about high pace only. Tampa play 3rd straight final, but they were not the team that "play with that formula". Playing at a higher pace is good, but it didn`t help everybody.
You are going with best player available. Who fits better with your team. If our top-6 will be from woth Hughes, Bratt, Cooley, Gaudreu and Mavrik Bourque, you will never win nothing big.

 

[Guadana]

Pronman indicated that the Russians falling is a very, very real possibility. I thought I had heard that some teams had pulled them off the board altogether.

I'm starting to wonder if there's a real shot that Yurov tumbles enough to move into trade up territory from 37. Pronman had him going 20.

I believe people don`t understand how good he is. He is top-10 talent on this draft, if we talk about pure talent. I did watch some of his interview and I did talk with my body from Magnitogorsk, who knows him personally. Danila wants to be better player and play in NHL.
He is great two way player, one of the best 200-foot players. If he is available after 20th pick, we should definetly trade up. I believe montreal will be one team who could not draft him. May be even Arizona will prefer to stay away from early russian picks because thier reputation history. It could help.

 

[devilsblood]

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. If we were talking about the safety of a pick yes I’d rather have somebody who’s a got a great motor and plays the game at a really high pace all the time. But in terms of projecting potential I could go either way. There’s positives to both. You could either have a guys who’s flying around pushing the play and putting the other teams defenders on their heels. Or a guy who slows, things down, holds the puck up, keeps possession and creates space for his linemates with smart plays.

The thing is we already have pacey guys in Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, and even Sharangovich to an extent. We don’t have a guy like Slafkovsky who can slow things down, and create time and space for his linemates the way he does. Scouching actually mentioned that could work really well with some high-skilled linemates.


I think it’s about finding a nice mix of guys who are gonna get it and go and guys who maybe slow things down more.
You mention Colorado. I think it’s more that they have a good mix. Look at Landeskog, Nichuskin, Rantanen, and even Kadri. Those aren’t guys that really push the pace a ton or have a ton of quickness to their game.

Teams also tend to play at a quicker pace all together when they move the puck well. Not necessarily because all their players play with a ton of pace and speed.

As a team Colorado is just outpacing everybody though. Now you don't need everybody to be top of the charts in terms of pace, but guys do need to play uptempo.

And I'm sure Slaf can play uptempo, looks like his compete is pretty good from the clips Scouch was posting, but tempo is just not top of the charts. Which can't be a huge knock if Scouch has him 4th oc.

I'd also say that Hughes can play with pace, but he can slow it down as well. I think this past year though he realized he did need to pick it up, be more on the attack, and that's when his production really took off.

 

[My3Sons]

As a team Colorado is just outpacing everybody though. Now you don't need everybody to be top of the charts in terms of pace, but guys do need to play uptempo.

And I'm sure Slaf can play uptempo, looks like his compete is pretty good from the clips Scouch was posting, but tempo is just not top of the charts. Which can't be a huge knock if Scouch has him 4th oc.

I'd also say that Hughes can play with pace, but he can slow it down as well. I think this past year though he realized he did need to pick it up, be more on the attack, and that's when his production really took off.

If you play with confidence and know what to do you can execute at least as fast as your body will allow. That’s what I see from a number of the Avs. They look fast because they just execute without hesitation.

 

[devilsblood]

No, you are not. You choose a guy, you will help you to win. By playing better game for his role.
Colorado are great, but that`s not only about high pace only. Tampa play 3rd straight final, but they were not the team that "play with that formula". Playing at a higher pace is good, but it didn`t help everybody.
You are going with best player available. Who fits better with your team. If our top-6 will be from woth Hughes, Bratt, Cooley, Gaudreu and Mavrik Bourque, you will never win nothing big.

The game in general is playing at a higher tempo. I think the last couple years it was Tampa that was outpacing teams, losing Coleman hurt in this regard for sure. This year it's Colorado outpacing Tampa.

And again, I know not every good player in the league is a top of the charts in terms of tempo. It's pretty much impossible for that to be the case. So yeah you can have good players who play the game at a slower pace(though even those guys lose effectiveness as they lose their quickness).

But in general all other things being equal, uptempo is better then slower tempo.

 

[devilsblood]

If you play with confidence and know what to do you can execute at least as fast as your body will allow. That’s what I see from a number of the Avs. They look fast because they just execute without hesitation.

I think when we talk about playing at pace we are talking about more than just actual speed. And as you say the Av's are playing as fast as their bodies allow. And I think MacKinnon sets that pace, who is not only a burner, but plays the game at an incredible pace. So I think we are in agreement.

 

[Guadana]

The game in general is playing at a higher tempo. I think the last couple years it was Tampa that was outpacing teams, losing Coleman hurt in this regard for sure. This year it's Colorado outpacing Tampa.

And again, I know not every good player in the league is a top of the charts in terms of tempo. It's pretty much impossible for that to be the case. So yeah you can have good players who play the game at a slower pace(though even those guys lose effectiveness as they lose their quickness).

But in general all other things being equal, uptempo is better then slower tempo.

Hurts? They are playing in the final 3 straight years. Injuries of Kucherov and Point could hurt them. Or fatigue of Vasilevsky. Coleman isn`t a player who understand the game on the high pace. He is faster player. And can skate with the puck fast. But he doesnt think the game on the speed he skates. May be Miles Wood is a player of the high pace?

And we talk about Slaf like he is playing on the slow pace. No, he is not. He is quite fast and make fast passes in the right moment, he feels timing veeery well. He isn`t Mcdavid. But he is fast. But he can slow the game and he has tools for that. And he is a player who can help devils in cycling, where devils really svck. Very hard.

And faster tempo is a better thing in vacuum. With the right coach and right players you can slow the game and broke the pace of opponents. I just think this is not the trump of future devils. And I Slaf is pretty good to be a player of the high pace on this squad.

If we worry about slow pace, we should talk about Holtz, not SLaf.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

And I'm sure Slaf can play uptempo, looks like his compete is pretty good from the clips Scouch was posting, but tempo is just not top of the charts. Which can't be a huge knock if Scouch has him 4th oc.

Idk, he did play like that in the wc though.

 

[devilsblood]

And faster tempo is a better thing in vacuum. With the right coach and right players you can slow the game and broke the pace of opponents. I just think this is not the trump of future devils. And I Slaf is pretty good to be a player of the high pace on this squad.

If we worry about slow pace, we should talk about Holtz, not SLaf.

This is pretty much what I'm saying. And I think it's what Scouch is saying as well. Again, he has him 4th OA. IE he likes him a lot.

Whether or not Coleman thinks the game well at a high pace, he certainly plays the game at a high pace. And if he didn't he wouldn't be nearly as good as he is. How much did losing Coleman hurt TB, they are still a very talented and well balanced team, so yeah they are still good. But I do think Coleman would be a big help, especially in this series.

Idk, he did play like that in the wc though.

And this is often viewed as him playing his best hockey if I'm not mistaken.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

And this is often viewed as him playing his best hockey if I'm not mistaken.

And what's wrong with that?

 

[My3Sons]

And what's wrong with that?

I’d like to know….

 

[devilsblood]

And what's wrong with that?

Point was he played his best hockey playing more uptempo.

Man you guys are oddly defensive about a guy being ranked 4th OA.

 

[Guttersniped]

Interesting video.

He’s basically saying he doesn’t think there’s much that could hold him back from being a good NHL player but his size and lack of high end pace could stop him from having great production.

He was kept talking about how important pace is to him and how Slafkovsky is a solid player who is patient and reads play well and all I started thinking about is a player like Leon Draisaitl.
I don’t understand where this idea that you need to play with some real high-end pace or speed comes from to be elite. Look at some of the best players in the league. Your Draisaitl’s, Kopitars, or even guys Like Panarin, Kane, Matthews and Kucherov. I could go on forever. So many of the best players don’t play a really high-pace game that often and instead seem to more so slow the game down and have good patience and awareness.


I think high-end pace is something that can be really important to being a good middle 6 or bottom 6 player who’s hard to play against. But elite players with high end skill and IQ don’t necessarily need that in the way he’s describing at all.

You’re describing sublime playmakers who have the ability to slow play down and dictate pace.

To do that in the NHL you need elite on-ice vision, a high IQ, high end puck-handling, above average agility and puck handling skills.

And I’m most likely missing other key ingredients lol but if you can do that 5v5 then you’ve reached the highest form of a skilled finesse scoring forward.

This is very tough ask for a giant winger though because it requires a lot of agile quick moves to create deception. That’s the “evasion” part. It’s hard to be all that evasive when you’re Frankenstein, even if you’re a soon to be pro athlete and very agile for your size.

NHL players voted Draisaitl the best passer in the NHL, over McDavid. And he‘s obviously an elite goal scorer.

Scouch said Slaf could develop in a lot of directions and he was most intrigued by him growing in a finesse direction. If he became an elite passer that certainly would be going in that direction.

It was a very positive video, he only has him 4th because of his fixation on Brad Lambert, so it’s really 3 (and discusses Slaf in the video as that).

Slafkovsky is an incredibly safe pick, maybe the safest in the whole draft. He will definitely be a useful player. It’s unclear what his offensive ceiling is right now, that’s just how it is.

This video’s are a little underwhelming since he talked forever about getting an editor. He could do a better job of using the footage to illustrate his point through plays.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Point was he played his best hockey playing more uptempo.

Man you guys are oddly defensive about a guy being ranked 4th OA.

yea, so he can play that style, again, what's wrong with that? It's been said again and again that in the Liiga he played a more defensive role and was more limited in ice time. Yet in international tournaments when he was allowed to thrive, he played to his full potential so to speak. That's what everyone is excited about.

Slafkovsky is an incredibly safe pick, maybe the safest in the whole draft. He will definitely be a useful player. It’s unclear what his offensive ceiling is right now, that’s just how it is.

I would agree that it's very uncertain if Slaf will actually hit the 90+ point potential. Me personally, I don't really think so. But he provides everything we need literally. On top of that, I haven't been impressed with the other prospects as much as I was with Slaf, so he's my guy.

 

[severian]

What do you guys think about Dainius Zubrus as a Slafkovsky comparison?

 

[Hisch13r]

What do you guys think about Dainius Zubrus as a Slafkovsky comparison?

Wouldn't be all that surprised if it pans out like that

 

[Eggtimer]

I view “pace” as how fast players can process and react and make plays.
Having a very good pace does a lot of things. On defence , if you play with fat pace you apply pressure and take away time ame space from the opposition. The faster your pace , the less time and space the opposition has . Less time and space you have , the quicker you have to make decisions . Lack of time amd space leads to turnovers , or not the best play possible due to being rushed .
This is where your players worth have to match or exceed the oppositions pace AND/OR have the skill ano hockey IQ to know how to handle the oppositions fast pace.
I thnk Slafkovsky has the hockey IQ amd skill / ability to react effectively to a fast paced game PLUS plays a style that is massively important where he can create time and space for his line mates. He can shield the pick , with his strength and massive reach he can buy time and puck control plus has the hockey IQ to find teammates that are open . To me , this somewhat negates playing against and combatting a fast paced team.

Fast pace on offence is the reverse. Making plays and moving the puck by skating and passing without hesitation makes it very very diffucult for defences to get in the proper lanes , maintain proper gaps , play effective positionally. A very fast paced team makes it very difficult to process the game in time and you lose how effective you are. Playing defence against a team that knows what to do almost instinctively is far far more effective than a team that has to slow down and process what the best play is.
Example #1 . Our power play …. Teams can easily react and counter us because we don’t have enough “pace” amd defences have more than enough time to read the play and react amd shutting us down .

 

[tailfins]

What do you guys think about Dainius Zubrus as a Slafkovsky comparison?

I think that would be a good and realistic outcome.

I’m still sticking with my Viktor Kozlov vibes.

 

[Guttersniped]

Point was he played his best hockey playing more uptempo.

Man you guys are oddly defensive about a guy being ranked 4th OA.

He didn’t say 4th because he knew he had no statistical argument for putting Brad Lambert ahead of him. (He just loves him and the heart wants what the heart wants lol.) He realistically has him 3rd (if we ignore the year long Lambert fixation) but he separates guys into tiers and has Wright & Cooley above him.

He said he wouldn’t take him at the top of the draft because they have doubts that the elite production you want is there. He now has him at the top of a second tier that only has Slafkovsky, Jiricek & Nemec.

He even qualified that by saying if his development/scouts guys, etc really fought hard about the upside being there and they believed they could get it, he could see could be talked into taking him higher then he has him ranked.

It’s a positive video.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I can`t say I like scouching. Literally I don`t. But I`m watching him because he helps me to watch on players from the different angles. It`s better than most of scouts, who repeat each others.
But scouching has his own... I would say fashistique vision of the best player. He should have strong straight nose, strong chin, white hairs... I mean, he should be 6`0, he should be elite skater and he should drive the play. And complete every passes he makes. That`s all. It is really... idiotic tunnel vision. And it does work in NHL somewhere, somewhere it`s not. But it is not a thing that brings you wins automatically.

I'm going to back up @Guadana here and say that -- although I like certain elements of Scouching's approach -- ultimately he's one of the weaker draft evaluators when it comes to his rankings and ultimate assessments.

Scouching is terrific in breaking down video elements and aspects of players, so I would still absolutely recommend him as a draft-day resource. He's extremely eloquent and excels at conveying his ideas on players, which are often quite interesting and unique.

However, as @Guadana states, he always has tunnel-vision in preferring one specific type of player and eschewing many other player types which are just as valuable, if not more valuable, to an NHL contender.

There are a couple of 2022 rankings which are extremely indicative of his biases over-ruling logic altogether. Foremost would have to be his rankings of US-NTDP defenders. He has Seamus Casey at #8 overall, while the best US-NTDP defenseman this year has pretty clearly been Ryan Chesley, who Scouching has ranked #47. This represents almost a bizarre disparity -- because as good as Casey is, if an NHL team were to draft him at #8 -- and ahead of Simon Nemec -- it would be time to fire the entire scouting staff. He's just not capable of playing a top pairing role on either side of the puck, he's more a guy you take because he's solid-to-very-good across the board on both sides of the puck. Regardless of your opinion of Chesley -- probably the most advanced defensive defender in the 2022 class -- we have to logically annihilate the Casey ranking due to the Nemec Factor.

Scouching really loses all credibility here with his #11 ranking of Simon Nemec, 3 slots behind Casey. There is not a single aspect of the game where Casey is grading above Nemec. Skating? Nemec. Size/strength? Nemec. Passing/playmaking? Nemec. Puckhandling? Nemec. Defensive play? Nemec. Intangibles? Nemec. Puckhandling? Nemec. Transition game? Nemec. It's really not even close. The one area Casey competes is in Nemec's singular weakness, which is a so-so shot. That's it.

We see more of this nonsense in 2020, with Jake Sanderson in the bottom half of Round One and a very sketchy defender like Wallinder tiers ahead of guys like Schneider, Guhle and Faber. At this point, it should be plain for Scouching to see that his algorithm for defensemen needs to be updated, but his Casey vs. Nemec ranking is proof positive mistakes are being repeated on an even more painful level.

With forwards, you'd think Scouching's preference for exclusively pace and speed would be less detrimental, but he went ahead and ranked Suzdalev and Ingram over names like McGroarty, Snuggerud, Gaucher etc. so we can see he's completely departed reality again here, as well. Again he's not learning from previous mistakes, like his 2021 #4 overall ranking of Fabian Lysell and far-lower-than-deserved rankings for potential NHL stars like Guenther, McTavish and L'Heureux.

Ultimately, I'd say Scouching is a nice resource to use for certain aspects of certain player types, but his overall rankings are better off taken with a grain of salt. Which is to say I like him, but I'm certainly not relying on his rankings as any sort of a viable resource.

 

[StevenToddIves]

What do you guys think about Dainius Zubrus as a Slafkovsky comparison?

Pretty weak comparison. Zubrus was not an elite playmaker or puck handler. Slafkovsky probably has the highest combination of these skills int he entire 2022 class. He's potentially an elite skill forward at the highest levels.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I think that would be a good and realistic outcome.

I’m still sticking with my Viktor Kozlov vibes.

Kozlov is also a weak comparison for Slafkovsky, although he's a heck of a lot better than Zubrus. Kozlov had all the physical tools in the world, but his problem was intangibles. He wasn't the best decision-maker with the puck, did not use his size or shot nearly enough, and his compete level was suspect. I'd say Kozlov's NHL peak of 1998-200 would be a pretty applicable floor for Slafkovsky, but nowhere near the ceiling.

 

[oxman44]

What do you guys think about Dainius Zubrus as a Slafkovsky comparison?

No, allthough there are some similarities, I think they are mostly just related to their size. I think Slaf has much better hands than Zubie and is a faster/better skater. I see 30 goal potential all day. I dont think Zubrus ever got over 20 or so. In my opinion I think Slaf projects as much, if not *slightly* more of a goal scorer than a playmaker. hes definetly a good playmaker capable of making any of the requisite nhl setups, but I see more of a "get the puck into the dangerous areas as often as possible" mentality with him. moreso than the pinpoint-elite creativity passer. The thing I find most projectable about Slaf is his ability to take the puck directly into the homeplate area, protect it from stick checks with his ridiculous reach and stick handling and fire pucks from the most dangerous area on the ice consistently. that results in Goals at the NHL level. plus hes got pretty nasty wrister with a really quick sneaky release that he surprises goalies with pretty frequently. Hes a gem, and no he might not ever be a 100+ point player that people always seem to expect (unrealistically) in the top 3 every year, but I definetly see a 30-30 floor and 80+ pts seasons seem pretty realistic for his prime

 

[StevenToddIves]

No, allthough there are some similarities, I think they are mostly just related to their size. I think Slaf has much better hands than Zubie and is a faster/better skater. I see 30 goal potential all day. I dont think Zubrus ever got over 20 or so. In my opinion I think Slaf projects as much, if not *slightly* more of a goal scorer than a playmaker. hes definetly a good playmaker capable of making any of the requisite nhl setups, but I see more of a "get the puck into the dangerous areas as often as possible" mentality with him. moreso than the pinpoint-elite creativity passer. The thing I find most projectable about Slaf is his ability to take the puck directly into the homeplate area, protect it from stick checks with his ridiculous reach and stick handling and fire pucks from the most dangerous area on the ice consistently. that results in Goals at the NHL level. plus hes got pretty nasty wrister with a really quick sneaky release that he surprises goalies with pretty frequently. Hes a gem, and no he might not ever be a 100+ point player that people always seem to expect (unrealistically) in the top 3 every year, but I definetly see a 30-30 floor and 80+ pts seasons seem pretty realistic for his prime

Where I disagree strongly here would start with Slafkovsky's style. Slaf is a pass-first player with elite playmaking capability. I think this narrative was twisted a bit because of his 7-goal, 0-assist Olympic performance. His shot is very, very good but nowhere near his playmaking capability.

Though I agree that Slaf likes to take the puck into high-danger scoring areas, he also likes to simply use his elite puckhandling to create time for himself along the boards and down low while allowing his teammates to find space in scoring lanes -- where Slaf's ability to create time and space for himself plays into his elite-level playmaking capability.

Zubrus was an excellent guy to have on your line, but he was really a north/south take-it-to-the-net type. He never had anywhere close to the finesse game of a Slafkovsky. If he gets anywhere close to his potential, Slaf is going to rack up the assists at the NHL level.