Prospect Info: Current #2 overall poll and discussion

[Monsieur Verdoux]

See my above post.
He was only a 1.08 against NCCA division 1 teams.

If you include his 6 points in two games against much weaker division 3 teams that’s gets him to 1.33PPG but that would be dumb to include IMO.

Yeah, thanks for the answer. Then the point difference between Cooley and Nazar is much closer than I thought.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Yeah, thanks for the answer. Then the point difference between Cooley and Nazar is much closer than I thought.

Ya Cooley’s PPG in that list is basically just heavily pumped up due to his monster 5 point game against Buffalo State who I’m not even sure is a good d3 school. Nazar put up 2 points against them though too and he had an extra game against Adrian who I do know is a very strong d3 team.

But I’d personally rather look at the division 1 numbers on their own.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Always like these rankings because they give you a decent idea of how the prospects might be viewed by NHL teams currently.
Hopefully Wright is number 1.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Yeah, thanks for the answer. Then the point difference between Cooley and Nazar is much closer than I thought.

The most difficult part of my draft rankings might have been how to rank Cooley/Gauthier/Nazar from #5-#7. They're all so good.

I just finished my indexed list of prospect write-ups, with included rankings for all of you folks to use as a reference.

Prospect Info: - Devils HFBoards 2022 Draft Resource, Indexed Profiles A Thru Z

I'm going to be putting up alphabetical profiles of all the prospects I've encapsulated over the course of the year. Hopefully, this will enable you to easily locate the prospects discussed for the Devils, both leading up to and after the draft. I am also including video and my rankings...

hfboards.mandatory.com

 

[Saugus]

Always like these rankings because they give you a decent idea of how the prospects might be viewed by NHL teams currently.
Hopefully Wright is number 1.

McKenzie definitely has his finger on the pulse for what scouts are thinking. I'm looking forward to seeing what his rankings are.

And honestly, because I don't have as much knowledge about draft prospects beyond what I've read about the top end guys, McKenzie's rankings will be a significant guide for me as I watch the draft, especially past the first round.

ex: "Wait, who is that?", "Oh McKenzie has him ranked #35, seems like a reach at #16", etc.

 

[StevenToddIves]

McKenzie definitely has his finger on the pulse for what scouts are thinking. I'm looking forward to seeing what his rankings are.

And honestly, because I don't have as much knowledge about draft prospects beyond what I've read about the top end guys, McKenzie's rankings will be a significant guide for me as I watch the draft, especially past the first round.

ex: "Wait, who is that?", "Oh McKenzie has him ranked #35, seems like a reach at #16", etc.

McKenzie's rankings are annually the most accurate come draft day. All the scouting bureaus and draft writers (including myself) contain far more variance.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

McKenzie definitely has his finger on the pulse for what scouts are thinking. I'm looking forward to seeing what his rankings are.

And honestly, because I don't have as much knowledge about draft prospects beyond what I've read about the top end guys, McKenzie's rankings will be a significant guide for me as I watch the draft, especially past the first round.

ex: "Wait, who is that?", "Oh McKenzie has him ranked #35, seems like a reach at #16", etc.

It’s because who’s rankings are actually just a poll of NHL scouts and from the looks of it leaflet at least a decent amount of them head scouts and how things might go down on draft day.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Two narratives we need to dispel:

1) Cooley has a higher ceiling than Wright. What we should be asking is: does Cooley have the highest ceiling on the US-NTDP? Because to me, that could be Nazar. Cooley is a great prospect, but you're drafting him because he's a very good all-around player who plays an extremely high pace style of hockey. To me, he's safe -- a good comparable to me would be like a higher-floor, lower-ceiling Mat Barzal. But Cooley is not a dominant offensive, 100+ point-type. He didn't lead his own team in scoring. Not only is he not Jack Hughes, but he's also not Trevor Zegras. Meanwhile, Wright lacks Cooley's speed and pace, but he's literally higher end in every other tool or ability. He's a better passer than Cooley and shoots far, far better -- I'm not sure in what world that gives Cooley higher offensive "upside" than Wright. In terms of pure offensive upside among 2022 draft-eligible centers, I'd rank Cooley 4th behind Wright, Lambert and Savoie; and this is because I'm not sure if Nazar is a center or RW at the NHL level.

2) Slafkovsky does not have a high floor. There are no red flags which can hold Slafkovsky back -- he's literally a high-intangible, high-skill 6'4-220 kid who displayed a higher development arc in his draft-eligible season than any player being considered in the top 20. Is there a chance he completely plateaus out of the blue and doesn't pan out as a first-liner? Well, sure -- there's that chance with any prospect -- but a lot of bad things would have to happen to an almost preternatural degree in order for this to happen. Like Wright, I'd consider Slafkovsky "high floor, high ceiling" -- they're both so good right now, it's tough to imagine them not continuing to improve.

I think people like to make up narratives and run with them. If we're talking about a low floor or a high ceiling, I can present to you Brad Lambert. This kid is the best skater in the draft and his vision/puckhandling is probably second after only Slafkovsky. He has the rare ability to dangle the puck at lightning speed with the same acuity as he does standing still. If he puts it all together, he'll be lethal. The problem is, Lambert has difficulty putting two good shifts in a row, much less two games. He hasn't shown the compete level or consistency of effort or willingness to pay a price or team ethic we normally see in our star players. Maybe it's just immaturity, and there will be a point where he figures it out and takes off. Maybe he just needs the right coach or system.

Re: Cooley, I agree he's not a Hughes or Zegras. But looking at this draft, I don't believe you can say he isn't the most likely player to end up on that level as a center that can make dynamic and creative plays at pace. I value that ability extremely highly, probably to a fault. Obviously the other two showed you more by his age and they were more highly regarded prospects as a result. I just think that if you project each of these prospects to their highest reasonable development, Cooley has the tools to be at the top of that list. I'll admit that it's close and I think Wright is a safer pick that also has great offensive tools, which is why I would take him first.

Re: Slaf, my comment wasn't that he had a low floor, it was that his floor is lower than Jiricek and Nemec. Honestly it was a throwaway comment. I am sure he will be a top 6 forward and I personally have no qualms with his game. I think realistic worse case scenario, as you said, would be that he plateaus soon and winds up as a ~25 goal ~55 point wing. I expect he will be a good bit better than that.

 

[Guadana]

Re: Cooley, I agree he's not a Hughes or Zegras. But looking at this draft, I don't believe you can say he isn't the most likely player to end up on that level as a center that can make dynamic and creative plays at pace. I value that ability extremely highly, probably to a fault. Obviously the other two showed you more by his age and they were more highly regarded prospects as a result. I just think that if you project each of these prospects to their highest reasonable development, Cooley has the tools to be at the top of that list. I'll admit that it's close and I think Wright is a safer pick that also has great offensive tools, which is why I would take him first.

Re: Slaf, my comment wasn't that he had a low floor, it was that his floor is lower than Jiricek and Nemec. Honestly it was a throwaway comment. I am sure he will be a top 6 forward and I personally have no qualms with his game. I think realistic worse case scenario, as you said, would be that he plateaus soon and winds up as a ~25 goal ~55 point wing. I expect he will be a good bit better than that.

Nope, Cooley hasn't best tools. Are we talking about player style as the basis? Like if this and this player will hit their ceiling, we should watch on something like fundamental basis and I prefer to choose playstyle. Nazar has higher ceiling. I think he is much closer to Point or Barzal than Cooley. MTkachuk is a ceiling mark for Gauthier. And I think he is closer to be on the same skating level as MT. Cooley is something in the middle between JohnnyG and Keller. I like seasons of Gaudreau when he hit a lot if points, but I prefer Barzal, Point and Tkachuk.
And I don't like comparisons.

And Slaf has much better floor than Nemec and Jiricek. Because Nemec is svcks as defenseman with his passive defensive style for NHL for now. I know he will work on himself, but we are talking about floor. Jiricek made a lot of mistakes with the puck, trying to force opponents with bad timing sometimes. I understand that he will work on his game, but we are talking about floor. Slafkovsky showed himself as much better two way player, with more accurate game. He absolutely has better floor.
Even if NHL speed will be too much for Juraj, he will find himself in the middle six role. Both defensemen has red flags, that will limit their ice time to the max, if NHL speed of the game will be too much for them. Nemec could be a typical third pair pp qb, which is always a passenger in defensive zone, Jiricek could be third pair defenseman, because of his mistakes and dump decisions. His offensive level is questionable for NHL level too.

I believe both have great potential. I like Jiricek a lot. They are teenagers who did play against men. Its very hard for defenseman. But we did talk about floor.

 

[Blackjack]

Scouch just posted his Slafkovsky video

 

[Guadana]

Scouch just posted his Slafkovsky video

And we should understand, scouching didn’t watch most of Olympic Games and didn’t watch any of world championships games. And he doesn’t like big players.

 

[Blackjack]

And we should understand, scouching didn’t watch most of Olympic Games and didn’t watch any of world championships games. And he doesn’t like big players.

I see a lot more potential for improvement in the player than Scouch does.

It's funny, Scouch has him at number 4, and explicitly says he doesn't think he should go #1 or #2, but based on the video I feel better about him at #2 than I did before.

 

[Guadana]

I see a lot more potential for improvement in the player than Scouch does.

It's funny, Scouch has him at number 4, and explicitly says he doesn't think he should go #1 or #2, but based on the video I feel better about him at #2 than I did before.

He has Cooley and Lambert in his top 3. We definitely should not worry about Slaf, when a guy like Scouch rank him so high.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Interesting video.

He’s basically saying he doesn’t think there’s much that could hold him back from being a good NHL player but his size and lack of high end pace could stop him from having great production.

He was kept talking about how important pace is to him and how Slafkovsky is a solid player who is patient and reads play well and all I started thinking about is a player like Leon Draisaitl.
I don’t understand where this idea that you need to play with some real high-end pace or speed comes from to be elite. Look at some of the best players in the league. Your Draisaitl’s, Kopitars, or even guys Like Panarin, Kane, Matthews and Kucherov. I could go on forever. So many of the best players don’t play a really high-pace game that often and instead seem to more so slow the game down and have good patience and awareness.


I think high-end pace is something that can be really important to being a good middle 6 or bottom 6 player who’s hard to play against. But elite players with high end skill and IQ don’t necessarily need that in the way he’s describing at all.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I see a lot more potential for improvement in the player than Scouch does.

It's funny, Scouch has him at number 4, and explicitly says he doesn't think he should go #1 or #2, but based on the video I feel better about him at #2 than I did before.

I agree with you, and i think it’s because as Devils fans we mostly feel the team is missing a specific dimension that Slafkovsky would hopefully bring. He may not be the best player available at #2, but the Devils are so sorely lacking some size and interior players in the top-6 that it’s hard to look past Slaf.

Also i agree that what really entices me in a prospect is room for improvement. Guys who are already finished products don’t have room to grow. The more flaws that scouts find in Slaf, the more it makes his stellar international play seem like just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

He has Cooley and Lambert in his top 3. We definitely should not worry about Slaf, when a guy like Scouch rank him so high.

That’s what I mean above. He seems to be really hyper focused on pace and basically guys that can just get up and go such as Cooley and Lambert.

But when you look at elite players in the NHL there’s so many that aren’t like that at all and kind of do quite the opposite a lot of the time.

He kept talking about that but I love that part of him.

 

[Forge]

Scouch just posted his Slafkovsky video

This was actually more complimentary than I was expecting from him if I'm being honest. He's using a lot more eye test than I expected from him

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

That’s what I mean above. He seems to be really hyper focused on pace and basically guys that can just get up and go such as Cooley and Lambert.

So just like Shero.

 

[devilsblood]

That’s what I mean above. He seems to be really hyper focused on pace and basically guys that can just get up and go such as Cooley and Lambert.

But when you look at elite players in the NHL there’s so many that aren’t like that at all and kind of do quite the opposite a lot of the time.

He kept talking about that but I love that part of him.

I think you have to choose, you go with a guy who plays at a higher pace.

I know you mention guys above who are successful in the league who may not play at the highest of tempo's, but in general I think the league is playing at higher rates of speed, and Colorado is certainly winning with that formula now.

Stil Slouch has him at 4. Could see him go 2oa. So it's not like he is dogging him. Just pointing out as aspect of his game which could be better.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Scouch just posted his Slafkovsky video

For the most part I agree with what he says. Only thing I disagree with it, size has absolutely nothing to do with how one will do as far as point production. Idk how that's relevant at all.

I think you have to choose, you go with a guy who plays at a higher pace.

I know you mention guys above who are successful in the league who may not play at the highest of tempo's, but in general I think the league is playing at higher rates of speed, and Colorado is certainly winning with that formula now.

Stil Slouch has him at 4. Could see him go 2oa. So it's not like he is dogging him. Just pointing out as aspect of his game which could be better.

You need a good mix. Landeskog and Rantanen aren't exactly super high paced style forwards.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think you have to choose, you go with a guy who plays at a higher pace.

I know you mention guys above who are successful in the league who may not play at the highest of tempo's, but in general I think the league is playing at higher rates of speed, and Colorado is certainly winning with that formula now.

Stil Slouch has him at 4. Could see him go 2oa. So it's not like he is dogging him. Just pointing out as aspect of his game which could be better.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. If we were talking about the safety of a pick yes I’d rather have somebody who’s a got a great motor and plays the game at a really high pace all the time. But in terms of projecting potential I could go either way. There’s positives to both. You could either have a guys who’s flying around pushing the play and putting the other teams defenders on their heels. Or a guy who slows, things down, holds the puck up, keeps possession and creates space for his linemates with smart plays.

The thing is we already have pacey guys in Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, and even Sharangovich to an extent. We don’t have a guy like Slafkovsky who can slow things down, and create time and space for his linemates the way he does. Scouching actually mentioned that could work really well with some high-skilled linemates.


I think it’s about finding a nice mix of guys who are gonna get it and go and guys who maybe slow things down more.
You mention Colorado. I think it’s more that they have a good mix. Look at Landeskog, Nichuskin, Rantanen, and even Kadri. Those aren’t guys that really push the pace a ton or have a ton of quickness to their game.

Teams also tend to play at a quicker pace all together when they move the puck well. Not necessarily because all their players play with a ton of pace and speed.

 

[Eggtimer]

I wonder if there is any way in hell Ivan Miroshnichenko available still when our 2nd rounder is up? Even if he is available still when there are a couple / few picks before us and he is there, I’d try to trade up.
We ha a very deep prospect pool so I would take a gamble on him . Reward could result in getting a top 10 pick skilled player in the second round.
Only if the best RHD prospect is a lot behind the potemtial of Ivan , otherwiese just stay where we are at if there is a very good RHD

Crap l sorry , wrong thread. I’m too tied and lazy to delete and move this

 

[Blackjack]

I wonder if there is any way in hell Ivan Miroshnichenko available still when our 2nd rounder is up? Even if he is available still when there are a couple / few picks before us and he is there, I’d try to trade up.
We ha a very deep prospect pool so I would take a gamble on him . Reward could result in getting a top 10 pick skilled player in the second round.
Only if the best RHD prospect is a lot behind the potemtial of Ivan , otherwiese just stay where we are at if there is a very good RHD

Crap l sorry , wrong thread. I’m too tied and lazy to delete and move this

I think this is the right thread, we don't really have a draft discussion thread.

I would definitely move up for Miroshnichenko.

 

[Forge]

I wonder if there is any way in hell Ivan Miroshnichenko available still when our 2nd rounder is up? Even if he is available still when there are a couple / few picks before us and he is there, I’d try to trade up.
We ha a very deep prospect pool so I would take a gamble on him . Reward could result in getting a top 10 pick skilled player in the second round.
Only if the best RHD prospect is a lot behind the potemtial of Ivan , otherwiese just stay where we are at if there is a very good RHD

Crap l sorry , wrong thread. I’m too tied and lazy to delete and move this

Pronman indicated that the Russians falling is a very, very real possibility. I thought I had heard that some teams had pulled them off the board altogether.

I'm starting to wonder if there's a real shot that Yurov tumbles enough to move into trade up territory from 37. Pronman had him going 20.

 

[glenwo2]

Scouch just posted his Slafkovsky video

Best Part : Puck Possession
Good Part : Playmaking off the boards

Two things that our current Unicorn does.
Not surprising THIS unicorn has the same ability.