Crosby and his future with the Penguins

[vodeni]

I thought he looked good last night (people use "great" way too often). Really good the first period, then the second not as good but he had good chances which was a nice sign I felt. The third period the entire team seems to back off so I'm willing to leave that open to interpretation. I think if he plays that way he usually is money in the bank for at least a point and probably two, and it wasn't even a great game for him. Just better than he's been. It was odd to see Malkin leading by example while Sid mostly sat and watched, passenger-style.

The goal total is the real worry, and that's really saying something when he only has 7 assists in 18 games.

This right on.
to piggy back on this, same for Geno's performance: it wasn't great as people say. His possession game was actually off, got pinned down pretty much throughout second and third. He wasn't"galloping" as people were saying, he wasn't dominating no more than he was since the beginning of the season. It really helps when your shooting percemntage climbs up to some decent numbers and people start scoring goals instead of goalies chests.
and don't forget pretty much dead even game with Wilds, our standards a re so low if they don't look totally dead people are willing to exaggarate

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

This right on.
to piggy back on this, same for Geno's performance: it wasn't great as people say. His possession game was actually off, got pinned down pretty much throughout second and third. He wasn't"galloping" as people were saying, he wasn't dominating no more than he was since the beginning of the season. It really helps when your shooting percemntage climbs up to some decent numbers and people start scoring goals instead of goalies chests.
and don't forget pretty much dead even game with Wilds, our standards a re so low if they don't look totally dead people are willing to exaggarate

The only thing I'd say about that is that it wasn't the best game Malkin's ever played I guess, but 2 goals and 2 primary assists kinda goes beyond "He was only great at times" I think. If someone scores a hat trick off three pin point wristers and does jack the rest of the game for example, I don't think anyone's complaining.

 

[stardog]

What this comment has to do with it? I made it clear that this is speculation in the first post.

And on the other hand, one must be blind not to see that Crosby is not himself since the beginning of the season. I don't see here "strange" comments from Canadian media that we have to take "with a huge grain of salt".

I do.
The fact that they came to a concrete conclusion based off of a short sample of of PERCEIVED body language (as if they are experts on both body language and Crosby's body language) is kind of stupid IMO.

They come to this radical conclusion based off of something they perceive in a hockey game. While there could be a potential thousand explanations for it, this is the one they hang their hat on.
If you can't see the potential for a reasonable line of skepticism based on that then I don't really see the point in arguing the matter as it is a blatantly obvious and rather big "grain of salt".

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Actually he's declined since Orpik blasted his jaw. At that point, he had 56 points in 35 games and got hurt at the beginning of the 36th. He hasn't looked the same since.

I would agree with that. He was still great in 13-14 obviously, but cracks were starting to show in his game that season and he wasn't quite as dominant at least based on the eye test. That was the first time i remember thinking that Crosby's best days are behind him.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

It's truly bizarre to watch him this season. He looks slow, his hands look terrible, he can't/won't shoot, he gasses out after the first period, and his decision making is horrific.

And now I'm reading everywhere that he played great last night. Bull. He had a great first period, but after that he was just as crappy as he's always been this season.

But at the end of the day, he's only 28. Unless he's nursing some unknown injury, there's no reason for him to look this bad. I mean god the guy looks like he ate thirty donuts a day in the off season. Just absolutely no jump at all. Even when he gets a little room to skate I don't see the speed burst I'm used to seeing, and defenses don't at all look scared of him.

He has a lot of time left to turn it around this season, though. Malkin had 15 games played down the stretch/playoffs last season where he had 0 goals and 3 assists for that span. I've seen Sid look slow and uninspired before, and he always turns it around. Looks like he has to prove it again.

I think Crosby depended on his speed more than we thought. You lose half a step in this league and it could be a disaster. He's lost that burst of acceleration needed to separate himself from defenders that he had in spades up until around 2013. His game has been regressing slowly since then, and this season it seems to have fallen off a cliff. He's not a 41 point player or whatever he's on pace for, but he seems to have lost all confidence which is no doubt affecting his decision making.

 

[Klondikeray]

I think Crosby depended on his speed more than we thought. You lose half a step in this league and it could be a disaster. He's lost that burst of acceleration needed to separate himself from defenders that he had in spades up until around 2013. His game has been regressing slowly since then, and this season it seems to have fallen off a cliff. He's not a 41 point player or whatever he's on pace for, but he seems to have lost all confidence which is no doubt affecting his decision making.

Good assessment.

Crosby is 30th out of 30 teams first line centers in scoring. Dead last. Can't get any lower than zero even strength goals. It's unbelievable that he hasn't had one end to end rush and put a puck in the net. Why? He can't. He just can't get the motor racing regardless of how deep down he tries. A star forward is going to get sufficiently 'p...off' after the first 5 scoreless games where he grits his teeth, goes a little nuts, forgets about everything else on the ice and puts on a burst. Crosby just can't get into top gear. For 'whatever' reason he isn't physically able.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Good assessment.

Crosby is 30th out of 30 teams first line centers in scoring. Dead last. Can't get any lower than zero even strength goals. It's unbelievable that he hasn't had one end to end rush and put a puck in the net. Why? He can't. He just can't get the motor racing regardless of how deep down he tries. A star forward is going to get sufficiently 'p...off' after the first 5 scoreless games where he grits his teeth, goes a little nuts, forgets about everything else on the ice and puts on a burst. Crosby just can't get into top gear. For 'whatever' reason he isn't physically able.

So you're saying he has some sort of leg injury?

 

[FDR]

Sid just needs to understand where he is physically and tailor his game for the skills he has now. He's obviously smart enough to do so but can he get over his stubbornness and try, instead of trying the same old with less than average results?

Gretzky and Lemieux slowed the game down. Watching those two was a treat because it appeared they were playing in slow motion yet everyone feared what they could do and eventually did. Sid has always been 100 mph at all times, to the detriment of his linemates at times. It's finally caught up to him in my opinion.

You see it every time he has the puck. He either tries to burst by someone and fails or he throws some ridiculous backhand pass that goes to no one. Both situations usually end in the puck going the other way and him looking dejected. It's his own fault for not adjusting and it irritates me to no end having to watch it play out every time.

Sid's job is to make those around him better and he's not doing that this season. I think a lot of it can be solved by him shooting more and relying on his line mates to get to the front of the net. I'd like to see more of him dishing the puck from behind the net much like Gretzky made a career out of if he's going to hesitate on his shots though. Get a more east west game going instead of full speed north south all the time.

Bottom line is it's up to him to adjust instead of trying the same old with no results. So far i haven't seen a willingness to do so.

 

[canadianguy77]

Good assessment.

Crosby is 30th out of 30 teams first line centers in scoring. Dead last. Can't get any lower than zero even strength goals. It's unbelievable that he hasn't had one end to end rush and put a puck in the net. Why? He can't. He just can't get the motor racing regardless of how deep down he tries. A star forward is going to get sufficiently 'p...off' after the first 5 scoreless games where he grits his teeth, goes a little nuts, forgets about everything else on the ice and puts on a burst. Crosby just can't get into top gear. For 'whatever' reason he isn't physically able.

I wonder how many other 1st line centers in the league have had to play their entire season thus far flanked by a Pascal Dupuis or a Chris Kunitz? I'd just like to see what he is still able to do without one of them always on his line.

 

[xIsle]

I do.
The fact that they came to a concrete conclusion based off of a short sample of of PERCEIVED body language (as if they are experts on both body language and Crosby's body language) is kind of stupid IMO.

They come to this radical conclusion based off of something they perceive in a hockey game. While there could be a potential thousand explanations for it, this is the one they hang their hat on.
If you can't see the potential for a reasonable line of skepticism based on that then I don't really see the point in arguing the matter as it is a blatantly obvious and rather big "grain of salt".

Stupid? First body language never lies. And it takes no expertise to understand body language unless your blind. Secondly, they also have, it may be surprising to you, analyzed his game. They thought he was not giving that 2nd effort he use to give in the past, that he plays to much the perimeter. Finally, the commentators in question (Martin McGuire and Dany Dubé) knows Crosby for many years, and they noted that it's not the same Crosby they saw in the past.
And they also, imagine that, look at the numbers : 2 goals and not many assists. For Crosby, that's not normal.
I don't see in those comments somethings so extravagant.

Are you going to tell me that all what the commentators described you're not able to see it yourself and that's why you take this as a grain of salt?

 

[joeyjake5]

Sid definitely seems much slower this season than the last previous seasons. Maybe its medical like the after effects of MUMPs. Recommend a complete and thorough physical but not to be performed pens medical staff. Send him to the MAYO CLINIC. Again, nothing to lose.

 

[mpp9]

87's frustrated. Neither the defense nor his wingers can get him the puck through the neutral zone with any kind of speed. And his LWer can't corral passes.

He was good last game. Yet he still can't produce. He needs more games like that, but the problem is beyond him.

 

[vikingGoalie]

87's frustrated. Neither the defense nor his wingers can get him the puck through the neutral zone with any kind of speed. And his LWer can't corral passes.

He was good last game. Yet he still can't produce. He needs more games like that, but the problem is beyond him.

So why did he look dominant against Florida after getting into it with jagr. But hasn't any other game. Looks more will then physical ability.

 

[mpp9]

Call me crazy. But Crosby didn't forget how to play hockey. He was playing dominant two way hockey late last season. I'm fine with that. People expecting 2010 Crosby should probably lower their expectations.

 

[Beauner]

Call me crazy. But Crosby didn't forget how to play hockey. He was playing dominant two way hockey late last season. I'm fine with that. People expecting 2010 Crosby should probably lower their expectations.

I agree. He had some end to end plays Tuesday, too. His speed isn't why he's making terrible passes or not using that monster of a lower-body he has. Yesterday was the first game I saw this year where he was working down low and protecting the puck, holding on to it looking for an option. THAT's where he needs to be. Not pulling up on the half wall looking for a cross-ice trailer.

 

[Pancakes]

Call me crazy. But Crosby didn't forget how to play hockey. He was playing dominant two way hockey late last season. I'm fine with that. People expecting 2010 Crosby should probably lower their expectations.

100 points...maybe not. I'd like better than a 40 point pace though. No amount of defense makes up for that kind of production, and his defense hasn't even been that great this season.

 

[mpp9]

People are acting like he hasn't played well in years. He had the best ppg in the league last season and was excellent defensively. He's obviously underperforming this season, but if he can get back to that level, I got no complaints.

 

[Shady Machine]

87's frustrated. Neither the defense nor his wingers can get him the puck through the neutral zone with any kind of speed. And his LWer can't corral passes.

He was good last game. Yet he still can't produce. He needs more games like that, but the problem is beyond him.

I don't get why Sid doesn't demand to play with other players if he's so frustrated with his wingers. We may not have the ideal guys for him, but I don't think it's a coincidence that one of Kunitz or Duper are always on his line. I know it's on the coach to find the right match, but there's no doubt in my mind that Sid prefers one of Kunitz or Duper with him. The coaches, and JR really, need to break Sid of that by trying other guys with him and giving them a long look before pulling the plug and going back to Kunitz or Dupuis.

 

[Jacob]

Sid definitely seems much slower this season than the last previous seasons. Maybe its medical like the after effects of MUMPs. Recommend a complete and thorough physical but not to be performed pens medical staff. Send him to the MAYO CLINIC. Again, nothing to lose.

ridiculous

 

[MrWilson*]

Well my opinion on Sid remains the same, but if Geno, Kessel and others can start to more consistently produce the way players of their caliber should, that will put a lot of pressure on Sid--good pressure. He's clearly not the same player and certainly not acting like a captain, but any hockey player should be able to be pushed to perform--if not by the coach, then by those around him.

Sid seems way out of the scoring race league wide, but right in his own locker room there are guys that have a 3-5 lead on him and are finding the net. My guess is that Sid won't allow that lead to get too much bigger, at least he shouldn't. Whatever is wrong with his game or him, a 40-50pt season for a healthy Sidney Crosby is tough to see happening, I mean if the guy has any stones at all.

I still think his eggs aren't all in line and won't be again, but if he's not physically injured then he's starting to look like a guy that is distracted and can't wait to sit or go home rather than play hockey.

If I had to bet, I'd say he's got...girl trouble.

 

[Asuna]

Well my opinion on Sid remains the same, but if Geno, Kessel and others can start to more consistently produce the way players of their caliber should, that will put a lot of pressure on Sid--good pressure. He's clearly not the same player and certainly not acting like a captain, but any hockey player should be able to be pushed to perform--if not by the coach, then by those around him.

Sid seems way out of the scoring race league wide, but right in his own locker room there are guys that have a 3-5 lead on him and are finding the net. My guess is that Sid won't allow that lead to get too much bigger, at least he shouldn't. Whatever is wrong with his game or him, a 40-50pt season for a healthy Sidney Crosby is tough to see happening, I mean if the guy has any stones at all.

I still think his eggs aren't all in line and won't be again, but if he's not physically injured then he's starting to look like a guy that is distracted and can't wait to sit or go home rather than play hockey.

If I had to bet, I'd say he's got...girl trouble.

'well I wouldn't say....girlfriend....'

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't get why Sid doesn't demand to play with other players if he's so frustrated with his wingers. We may not have the ideal guys for him, but I don't think it's a coincidence that one of Kunitz or Duper are always on his line. I know it's on the coach to find the right match, but there's no doubt in my mind that Sid prefers one of Kunitz or Duper with him. The coaches, and JR really, need to break Sid of that by trying other guys with him and giving them a long look before pulling the plug and going back to Kunitz or Dupuis.

Right. He was the same way with Colby Armstrong until Mario stepped up and completed the Hossa trade. Crosby's a loyal dude. He loved playing with Armstrong, but Hossa was so clearly a better player. Sid instantly enjoyed playing with him, too.

History needs to be repeated here, except Kunitz and Dupuis are a LOT harder to move than Colby was.

 

[Shady Machine]

Right. He was the same way with Colby Armstrong until Mario stepped up and completed the Hossa trade. Crosby's a loyal dude. He loved playing with Armstrong, but Hossa was so clearly a better player. Sid instantly enjoyed playing with him, too.

History needs to be repeated here, except Kunitz and Dupuis are a LOT harder to move than Colby was.

Agreed. Unfortunately I don't think Duper is movable, but Kunitz likely is. The return will likely blow, but it's worth it. One less guy that MJ can force back on Sid's line the second a different guy doesn't look great.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The ONLY team that MAY be willing to gamble on Dupuis would be the Devils, imo. Shero and co. know his medical history better than anyone, they might be the only ones comfortable enough to try.

And since they're better than advertised so far this season, hey you never know.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think Sid has any say in his linemates. The coaching staff truly believes the players they're putting with him are the best options there.