Confirmed with Link: Craig Berube named the 32nd Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[Kazparov]

Do we think Berube pushes WN to center?

He does have the skill set and with the right focus , determination and most importantly accountability he could really excel.

Thoughts?

 

[Trapper]

None of the core have shown they’ll ever be a major contributor on a Cup winning team.

That may well be the case and you have to start somewhere. Trying to work with 2 players (Matthews/Nylander) is much easier than trying to do it with 5.

 

[Nineteen67]

Could be, you're right. But I believe this group, team and staff have as good a chance now as they've ever had. Just need some off season moves that improve the team some more.

I'm pretty sure cup wins need a good mix of smart moves from the GM, decent coaching and alot of luck.

The team will need a good mix of skill and role players.

They need skill that works hard and wants to win.

 

[TS Quint]

I mean, Nylander did far more this past playoffs in the games he was in than Marner did. Nylander was quite clutch.

They scored the same number of points. Nylander had the worst shot share on the whole team. Calling him clutch kinda ignores his play for the rest of the time that isn't helping the team. Some might call it luck.

Even if you want to chalk it up to an eye test and say you just thought Nylander looked better i just feel it can't be by that much objectively and not by the proportion of blame Marner is taking.

 

[TS Quint]

You're being a drama queen and the only one ranting, raving and losing their shit is you. And what's with this BS that I "want me to read every thread and every post"? I never said any such thing, why are you lying? We're going in circles here and instead of wasting more time on this nonsense, I'll just copy paste what I posted earlier. Maybe read it again, let it sink in and stop making a fool of yourself.


You are wrong, a number people have told you you're wrong and if you refuse to look at some other threads to see for yourself then that's fine but I have better things to do with my time than to find these posts for you. They're easy enough to find, all you have to do is look and if you're too lazy to click your mouse a few times in other threads and you'd prefer to stay ignorant in this matter, that's fine too.

If you're upset, I'm sorry about that. All I did was point out how wrong you are to think that only Marner is being blamed, and I find it hard to understand how a person who's been here since 2012 and has made almost 8000 posts could be so blissfully unaware of what's going on.


Not even the specific playoff series in question? I mean I wouldn't want to get hung up on specific numbers but I will say that for the series in question, Marner was a helluva lot closer to a $4M dollar player than he was to an $11M player.

This is insane.

Can you quote what I said to send you off to the deep end? Did I say Marner gets all the blame? Is it a Symantec thing that has set you off? Is this your "gotcha" moment? If I said disproportionate would that help easy the spiders in your brain?

This isn't how normal people act.

 

[Leafsfan74]

That may well be the case and you have to start somewhere. Trying to work with 2 players (Matthews/Nylander) is much easier than trying to do it with 5.

This is the winner of this thread.

I might add to this since I've been a believer in Matthews since I listened to him as he grew as a player and watched his play on the ice; some players have it in them to be that different player. Most importantly is their cap hit.

Now it has been in spurts and it isn't his primary role of course, but we saw Matthews throw down Weber, a big man. We saw him get suspended when he retaliated after taking too much abuse, we saw him reluctantly (instinctively) drop the gloves against Stamkos.

We've seen him throw checks and play with some edge.

Nylander doesn't have that in him when he digs deep but he does have flashes of it and he rises to the occasion often.

The other three are just nice guys. Nothing wrong with that. This is a problem in the NHL playoffs when the game becomes all about how much you are willing to give. How much sacrifice and determination do you have?

Easier to do so with two players. If Marner, JT and Reilly were each $3-4M players, the heat wouldn't be nearly as intense as it is. At this point, they carry the burden because their cap space is preventing the team from getting those who WILL sacrifice and will their way to success in the playoffs.

 

[Gabriel426]

They scored the same number of points. Nylander had the worst shot share on the whole team. Calling him clutch kinda ignores his play for the rest of the time that isn't helping the team. Some might call it luck.

Even if you want to chalk it up to an eye test and say you just thought Nylander looked better i just feel it can't be by that much objectively and not by the proportion of blame Marner is taking.

In playoffs, goals mattered and Willie scored as much if not more than AM, MM and JT combined in the past two series.
Put it this way, any top players can literally do nothing all game but if they score a key goal or OT goal, that’s what it matters. Just look at Tkachuk last playoffs against us.

 

[Gabriel426]

Do we think Berube pushes WN to center?

He does have the skill set and with the right focus , determination and most importantly accountability he could really excel.

Thoughts?

Depends who they get for wingers in the off season. If somehow they can sign a Marchessault, then I can see Willie at C with Knies on LW.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why is Marner the only one getting the blame for their playoffs. Matthews is just as bad if not worse but he doesn't seem to get any heat for it, just a lot of excuses. When it comes down to it he's the league's highest paid player shouldn't the expectation be near McDavid level?

This is insane.

Can you quote what I said to send you off to the deep end? Did I say Marner gets all the blame? Is it a Symantec thing that has set you off? Is this your "gotcha" moment? If I said disproportionate would that help easy the spiders in your brain?

This isn't how normal people act.

You asked why Marner is the only one getting blamed, I added your original post above in case you've forgotten. You seem to be the only one left in the place who is blissfully ignorant of the fact that many people are taking blame at this point, maybe time to wake up and take a look at some other threads because this is getting weird now. And if you're a member of Marner's family or something and are just trying to make him look good, believe me you're not succeeding.

Keep being insulting and twisting your own words around if it makes you feel better, you're only making yourself look foolish.

Did you read both posts in context?

If you did, you’ve missed the point and are falling into the trap of recency bias in the worst way.

I believe Marner was worth LESS than a $4M dollar player in the playoffs. Ossified as my heart has become to the outcome prior to the start of the playoffs, there is nothing served in conveniently forgetting the corpus of Marner’s work.

Who do you think is forgetting what exactly? I've said all along that Marner is great during the regular season, then as the games get bigger, he gets smaller and that's a well established pattern by now. I want playoff success and "the corpus of Marner's work" isn't helping us in the playoffs, simple as that.

He's not getting singled out. He's getting rightful criticism he deserves. Him and Tavares were the only 2 healthy core members going into that series and they turned out to be the worst 2 performers of them. When Ilya Lyubushkin tied/exceeded your $11M scoring winger/center in points he obviously had a horrible series.

Exactly.

I like the hire. At this point the team needed to move on. Change for change sake actually works when it comes to NHL coaches.

Berube is a decent coach with a no nonsense approach. Just what this team needs for that extra push.

Don't really put alot into a coach won a cup or not. Certainly the crap posters are writing about it being 5 yrs ago.

A little history for you. Only 3 coaches ever won a cup with more than one team. Only one coach in the modern hockey era. 2 were in the 1940s. Only one within my lifetime.

Basically a coach grows and adjusts with his team and vice versa, to win a cup.

I like the hire as well. He feels like the right coach at the right time for this team, now if only Marner agrees to get out while the gettin's good, I might have some hope for next season.

ITM it's NOT recency bias. Marner's playoff performance has ALWAYS been like this. He fades in games 4-7. It's a pattern and others have done the research and published the stats in this forum.

Maybe not always, but almost always and it is indeed a well established pattern by now.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Mitch won't make it to training camp .. he won't do Berube's hitting drills .. basically Berube bag skates guys and does 1on1 puck fights most of his camps as one of my kids did his camp .. he is not a coach who does a ton of breakouts and transitional passing drills like Keefer to get reps in like my other kid said with Marlie camp .. he is big on puck battles and strength of stick on puck drills .. we have a ton of guys who are not gonna like camp .. even Willy/Matty/Rielly are not gonna like it .. these guys just don't fit into Berube's mindset .. if you don't love da grind then you are not gonna love his type of hockey as fans either .. he wants his teams to be prepared to win 1-0 games .. Tre i think you need to do a big roster overhaul

 

[TS Quint]

You asked why Marner is the only one getting blamed, I added your original post above in case you've forgotten. You seem to be the only one left in the place who is blissfully ignorant of the fact that many people are taking blame at this point, maybe time to wake up and take a look at some other threads because this is getting weird now. And if you're a member of Marner's family or something and are just trying to make him look good, believe me you're not succeeding.

Keep being insulting and twisting your own words around if it makes you feel better, you're only making yourself look foolish.

Oh, so it is about symantics and your gotcha moment. Alright, good one. Glad I more accurately explained it to be a disproportionate blame to help you out. Most normal people understood that.

Glad we worked things out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Oh, so it is about symantics and your gotcha moment. Alright, good one. Glad I more accurately explained it to be a disproportionate blame to help you out. Most normal people understood that.

Glad we worked things out.

This is about nothing more than me politely answering your questions and ignoring you insults. You asked why Marner is the only one getting blamed, then asked when you ever said he's getting all the blame. That my friend is semantics, you're not fooling anyone and yes, the word is "semantics", not "symantics".

I suggest you stop making a fool of yourself, up to you though.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

He’s been clutch the last few years in the playoffs. I actually think that Berube will bring out the best in someone like Willie.

This also could apply to Marner. It is worth the gamble seeing if he can have success under Berube and not having to play with a slowed Tavares.

 

[nuck]

Do we think Berube pushes WN to center?

He does have the skill set and with the right focus , determination and most importantly accountability he could really excel.

Thoughts?

Has anyone ever moved to center 600 games into their career? There has been some tinkering from time to time but he is 28 now so I am pretty sure that ship has sailed. I don't think they would do anything that might affect his ability to reproduce this season. In fact, I think they might be wondering what kind of center might maximize his value when JT is gone. The new coaching system will be enough of a shock for these guys.

 

[Kazparov]

Depends who they get for wingers in the off season. If somehow they can sign a Marchessault, then I can see Willie at C with Knies on LW.

I'm going to assume that swapping out MM for Marchessault is not the direction they want to go. Need to spread that caps down do D and G not keep investing in high skill forwards

 

[TS Quint]

This is about nothing more than me politely answering your questions and ignoring you insults. You asked why Marner is the only one getting blamed, then asked when you ever said he's getting all the blame. That my friend is semantics, you're not fooling anyone and yes, the word is "semantics", not "symantics".

I suggest you stop making a fool of yourself, up to you though.

You went through all of this because of a sad little gotcha. Good job bud. Glad I clarified for you and the spiders in your head can be at ease. It's weird the little things that mean so much to some people.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Golfing eh? I wonder why Mitchy didn't go play in the worlds with his buddy Tavares? He could help his country win something.

No money in it?

Marner can't stand playing on a line with him in the NHL why would he go do that at the world's?

 

[thusk]

In playoffs, goals mattered and Willie scored as much if not more than AM, MM and JT combined in the past two series.
Put it this way, any top players can literally do nothing all game but if they score a key goal or OT goal, that’s what it matters. Just look at Tkachuk last playoffs against us.

outside of jt, nylander is also the player who played the easiest matchup.

last 3 playoff against opposite top 6
at 5v5 when those player was on the ice

marner 10 goal for- 8 against
matthews 8 for-11 against
nylander: 6for for 12 against

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is about nothing more than me politely answering your questions and ignoring you insults. You asked why Marner is the only one getting blamed, then asked when you ever said he's getting all the blame. That my friend is semantics, you're not fooling anyone and yes, the word is "semantics", not "symantics".

I suggest you stop making a fool of yourself, up to you though.

You went through all of this because of a sad little gotcha. Good job bud. Glad I clarified for you and the spiders in your head can be at ease. It's weird the little things that mean so much to some people.

Did you even read my post before responding?

You asked a question, not sure why someone giving you an answer is a "gotcha", what's the matter with you? If people answering your questions upsets you so much, maybe don't ask. Sheesh.

Marner can't stand playing on a line with him in the NHL why would he go do that at the world's?

Marner can't stand playing with JT? What makes you think he's that petty? There's also no reason to assume that they'd be on the same line so I'm not following you here.

outside of jt, nylander is also the player who played the easiest matchup.

last 3 playoff against opposite top 6
at 5v5 when those player was on the ice

marner 10 goal for- 8 against
matthews 8 for-11 against
nylander: 6for for 12 against

Plus minus is a really bad stat. If that's all you got, just take your ball and go home.

 

[TS Quint]

Did you even read my post before responding?

You asked a question, not sure why someone giving you an answer is a "gotcha", what's the matter with you? If people answering your questions upsets you so much, maybe don't ask. Sheesh.


Marner can't stand playing with JT? What makes you think he's that petty? There's also no reason to assume that they'd be on the same line so I'm not following you here.


Plus minus is a really bad stat. If that's all you got, just take your ball and go home.

I was a little hyperbolic in my original post. Everyone else understood that.You lost your mind. I explained my self more accurately and you are still going on. What are you looking to get out of this?

 

[The Masters]

leafs stuu=ff starts at 13 min

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was a little hyperbolic in my original post. Everyone else understood that.You lost your mind. I explained my self more accurately and you are still going on. What are you looking to get out of this?

LOLOLOLOL. You haven't "explained" anything, you just keep insulting me. Feel free to point out which part of which post you consider to be an "explanation", I'll wait.

What you said wasn't hyperbolic, it was incorrect, simple as that. Many people have pointed out that to you, not just me and instead of just admitting it, you're going on and on and on. I have no idea what you're looking to get out of this but you can keep it up as long as you want, I don't mind the amusement one bit.

 

[thusk]

Did you even read my post before responding?

You asked a question, not sure why someone giving you an answer is a "gotcha", what's the matter with you? If people answering your questions upsets you so much, maybe don't ask. Sheesh.


Marner can't stand playing with JT? What makes you think he's that petty? There's also no reason to assume that they'd be on the same line so I'm not following you here.


Plus minus is a really bad stat. If that's all you got, just take your ball and go home.

When your line scored only 6 game at 5v5 in 22 game. its 1 goal like every 4 game.

When he will start to play even more against tkachuk' barkov, kucherov, point and those kind of playe because if marner is leaving nylander will need to play even morr aginst those player and not against a 3 or 4th line... what do you think will happen.

and matthews and nylander are also part of problem with lack of pp succes

 

[nuck]

This also could apply to Marner. It is worth the gamble seeing if he can have success under Berube and not having to play with a slowed Tavares.

Are you saying it is worth the gamble of signing Mitch for 8 more years at whatever it costs to see if he maybe does better under Berube? What if he doesn't? If Mitch is tradeable its this summer and history says they won't let him walk so its probable he's dealt before the season or he is a fixture for the rest of his career.

Absent cap concerns I might agree, and they should have at least run it back with a new coach last year to see if the Dubas formula was actually held back by playoff coaching. But keeping the band together now will blow another year of their window as they try to assemble a winner from table scraps while leaking more draft picks along the way. Adding Berube isn't going to turn the clock back for Brodie or Gio or suddenly make Lilly a top 4 stud. They can't improve this D on the same budget.

Mitch, Willie and Auston's raises plus the cost of JTs replacement eat up whatever savings happen after Tavares is done so the club is relying on cap growth in a market where every other club has the same cap growth to compete for talent. Player costs are going up so $4M a year isn't solving any problems without a LOT of luck in how its spent.

I don't think the reason Mitch isn't tearing it up has that much to do with JT. Elite money means you are elite with whomever you play. Look who Pastrnak plays with and he has MVP type seasons and except for 22-23 hasn't been MIA in the playoffs. Panarin had 43 points more than his center. When JT is replaced, it definitely isn't automatic that the points start churning out for MM. Sure it could happen but do you bet 8 x 12 on it?

I expect Mitch will hold out for more money than Willie, Pasta and Panarin are getting. The Leafs will have 3 of these deals on their cap. Even if he actually is worth $11.5-$12M no club is built this way. Time to get off the merry-go-round. It isn't Mitch the player, its Mitch the $11M.5 player and I doubt Tre can even hold him to that.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

He is a good coach, but is he a fit for the current "core 4"? Seems like too much of a hard ass.

Core 2. They will learn and be better or they can be traded too.
LOGO before players.
34 and 88 have proven they can elevate in the playoffs.

Tavares is defered to a lesser role for less money or byebye.

Marner is gone for cap space.
11 Mil gets you a good crafty winger and a solid Dman.
And we need a goalie.
FFS Domi for 1Mil did what marner did. LMFAO

I hate the amount of semen drenched fake fans who don't want the boyband to break up... Especially those who keep gagging on Marner. 11Million for nothing for 7 years.

They're a minority, but wow its a signal of what let our Franchise be hijacked with Dubas and his estrogenic brand of hockey spewing of fanboyism rather than a GM leading a team of men to a championship.

Shanny looking like he got scolded and his ass red from the heat at the presser is what was needed since MTL series.

Treliving...now Berube.
Get rid of the chickenshit in the locker room.