Post-Game Talk: Coyotes 4, Penguins 3 (OT) - Deserves Got Everything to Do With It

[Speaking Moistly]

The rest of that sign is actually hidden below the boards. It says "TRADED!" at the bottom. You just can't see it.

Someone needs to add in "traded" on that sign.

 

[ColePens]

so yeah that can't go in Fleury

awful game from most of the team

I love Archie and Guentzel.

- MAF knew it. He stormed off and took ownership. That was a weak one. I can empathize with MAF because he doesn't get to go out and win the boys a game for that flub. He has to make those saves. Before, he could brush it off and just go next game.

He's in a role that just needs to make sure he's at the top of his game for moments like that. He's going to let that frustration sit for a long time until his next game.

- Definitely loved Archie and Guentzel. Want to also include Hornqvist. I thought those 3 were by far our bright spots. It's ridiculous to me that Letang is out there 4 on 3. It should be Kess, Sid, Schultz, and Horny. You need a net front presence. Hornqvist was a guy who deserved it.

 

[ColePens]

The whole Sid thing boils down to one thing - I don't give a crap if he sucks right now because I don't care about awards. If he's still doing this in mid-March, then i'll be worried because we need him to be 2016 Sid if we want a chance to repeat. Right now.. he's coasting and the team is coasting by. It's not easy to flip a switch. So they need to start building at some time.

But it's fair to say Sid has been pretty bad in 2017 when you look at the standard based on how we know 87 can play. 2017 just hasn't been his year. Lots of poor play, lazy play, and not dominating at all.

 

[Pens x]

It's pathetic that Fleury even started tonight. I really hope it wasn't because his dad was on the trip. I'm sure they will keep him so that he can wear his helmet at the winter classic. The pens wouldn't want to hurt his feelings.

Frustrating game to say the least.

 

[Shrimper]

Crosby should be ashamed of his recent play

 

[Gallatin]

Such a depressing team right now. Sid has to go beast mode again or he'll be left in the dust soon.

Need to get healthy.

It's not just about Sid. It's about the TEAM committing to playing with 100% effort, and getting back to being more detailed on the defensive side of things.

Sid can help with that, but it will take more than just the Capitan.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Apparently Sid wants to get his 1000 at home. The two worst teams in hockey and he can't register a single secondary assist.

And I wish JR would trade Fleury before he keeps having games like tonight and his value plummets.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The whole Sid thing boils down to one thing - I don't give a crap if he sucks right now because I don't care about awards. If he's still doing this in mid-March, then i'll be worried because we need him to be 2016 Sid if we want a chance to repeat. Right now.. he's coasting and the team is coasting by. It's not easy to flip a switch. So they need to start building at some time.

But it's fair to say Sid has been pretty bad in 2017 when you look at the standard based on how we know 87 can play. 2017 just hasn't been his year. Lots of poor play, lazy play, and not dominating at all.

Crosby's play has taken a noticeable decline ever since Sullivan, inexplicably, removed Hornqvist from his line. It literally boils down to that one coaching move.

Sullivan's nonsensical line combinations -- as a whole and not just with regards to Sid -- are a big part of the struggle, IMO. He's using lines that simply don't work, and refuses to use combinations that do.

 

[Tender Rip]

Crosby's play has taken a noticeable decline ever since Sullivan, inexplicably, removed Hornqvist from his line. It literally boils down to that one coaching move.

Sullivan's nonsensical line combinations -- as a whole and not just with regards to Sid -- are a big part of the struggle, IMO. He's using lines that simply don't work, and refuses to use combinations that do.

He and Sid want 4th, obviously. Rags are 2 points behind with just one more game played. We just need to suck a little, and then we'll be on the Atlantic trail.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He and Sid want 4th, obviously. Rags are 2 points behind with just one more game played. We just need to suck a little, and then we'll be on the Atlantic trail.

With the way the lines are currently constructed and how the team, as a whole, is playing, I don't think it matters who the Pens play. They're not getting out of the first round.

(I know you were only joking, but still)

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree that with the current lines we won't get out of the first round. I don't think there are many teams that would get out of the first round missing 4 of their top 6 forwards, including their 2nd best player.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I agree that with the current lines we won't get out of the first round. I don't think there are many teams that would get out of the first round missing 4 of their top 6 forwards.

Sullivan was using weird (read: bad) combinations even when the team was relatively healthy. This isn't just a recent issue with Sullivan.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sullivan was using weird (read: bad) combinations even when the team was relatively healthy. This isn't just a recent issue with Sullivan.

we can get out of the first round with the lines we were using just before everyone got hurt. Though I expect Sid and Horny to be back together come playoff time.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

we can get out of the first round with the lines we were using just before everyone got hurt. Though I expect Sid and Horny to be back together come playoff time.

I disagree. An ineffective Crosby and a neutered Malkin means we'd be relying on HBK and the 4th line to carry us. And when you factor in Bonino sucking ass, that means three of our four lines look disjointed with the lines Sullivan was using.

As for the bolded, I don't know why they're apart now. It makes no sense.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I disagree. An ineffective Crosby and a neutered Malkin means we'd be relying on HBK and the 4th line to carry us. And when you factor in Bonino sucking ass, that means three of our four lines look disjointed with the lines Sullivan was using.

Crosby and Malkin were not ineffective when we were healthy.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sid will be fine. He's been out of sync since Sheary went down. Guentzel and Hornqvist as his wingers wouldn't be a bad start.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Crosby and Malkin were not ineffective when we were healthy.

You're literally just saying the opposite of what I'm stating.

Apparently I'm dreaming about all the complaints people had about how bad Crosby has looked since Rust was moved onto his line over Hornqvist.

 

[Night Shift]

It's pathetic that Fleury even started tonight. I really hope it wasn't because his dad was on the trip. I'm sure they will keep him so that he can wear his helmet at the winter classic. The pens wouldn't want to hurt his feelings.

Frustrating game to say the least.

We still have to rest Murray. You have the 2nd worst team in the league.. Perfect game to rest the starter, you would think.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We still have to rest Murray. You have the 2nd worst team in the league.. Perfect game to rest the starter, you would think.

It wasn't a back-to-back situation. Murray didn't need the night off. Not to mention the Pens don't play until Tuesday, so Murray will have gone 5 days without playing now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You're literally just saying the opposite of what I'm stating.

Apparently I'm dreaming about all the complaints people had about how bad Crosby has looked since Rust was moved onto his line over Hornqvist.

I'm saying the opposite because I disagree Sure, Sid looked less good, but ineffective is a huge overstatement. Sid still had 5 points in his last 4 games with Rust and 10 points in his last 8 games before Rust got hurt. I'm not sure when they got put together, but in the 14 games this year, Sid has 18 points. Only 4 on the PP.

Rust had 9 points in those 14 games. Sheary had 13 in the 11 games he's played this year.

I definitely want us to put Hornqvist back with Sid, but its not like our top 6 was some disaster with the lines we were using.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It wasn't a back-to-back situation. Murray didn't need the night off. Not to mention the Pens don't play until Tuesday, so Murray will have gone 5 days without playing now.

Scouts in attendance, trade deadline approaching, a goalie you basically *have* to ship out. Makes sense to start MAF to showcase him. Too bad it backfired though.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm saying the opposite because I disagree Sure, Sid looked less good, but ineffective is a huge overstatement. Sid still had 5 points in his last 4 games with Rust and 10 points in his last 8 games before Rust got hurt. I'm not sure when they got put together, but in the 14 games this year, Sid has 18 points. Only 4 on the PP.

Rust had 9 points in those 14 games. Sheary had 13 in the 11 games he's played this year.

I definitely want us to put Hornqvist back with Sid, but its not like our top 6 was some disaster with the lines we were using.

Those numbers are inflated by like 3 big games Sid had while the line was together. I believe he had a 4-point game and two 3-point games with Rust. In the other 11 games (I'm assuming your numbers are correct), that means he only had 8 points. That's ineffective for Sid.

And it kind of was becoming a disaster. Malkin wasn't clicking with Hornqvist, and Bonino was dragging down Kessel at even strength. The only line that looked like it was clicking was the fourth line.

Scouts in attendance, trade deadline approaching, a goalie you basically *have* to ship out. Makes sense to start MAF to showcase him. Too bad it backfired though.

Yeah, his value certainly didn't go up after that one.

He's bad on the road, though. If they really wanted to showcase him, they should have waited for one of the upcoming home games where he's less awful.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Those numbers are inflated by like 3 big games Sid had while the line was together. I believe he had a 4-point game and two 3-point games with Rust. In the other 11 games (I'm assuming your numbers are correct), that means he only had 8 points. That's ineffective for Sid.

And it kind of was becoming a disaster. Malkin wasn't clicking with Hornqvist, and Bonino was dragging down Kessel at even strength. The only line that looked like it was clicking was the fourth line.

Why discount the big games though? Every high end scorer has that kind of up and down during a season where they have some big games and some 0 point games. I'm not saying its ideal (I want to flip Rust and Horny) but I am saying we could win a round with those lines. At least assuming Bonino and the D stop being a disaster. But those are in no way line related imo.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why discount the big games though? Every high end scorer has that kind of up and down during a season where they have some big games and some 0 point games.

Bonino was the only disaster in there imo. If there's one thing on this team that needs fixed more than anything else, its 3C.

It's not about discounting big games, it's about showing that in a smaller sample size like 14 games, having 2 or 3 big ones can make the entire lot look better than they are. It's like a player scoring 5 points in 7 games, then having a big 5-point game to start the season. It makes it look like the player is "on pace for 100 points", even though realistically he's looked like a 50 point guy in 7 out of the 8 games.

Or put another way, for 11 out of the 14 games that line did very little and Sid looked very ineffective.

Either way, Sid hasn't looked the same since Hornqvist was removed. Whether you want to call it "less good" or ineffective or whatever, it's just arguing over semantics. The general point is that he's not been anywhere as good as he was prior to losing Hornqvist.

 

[Ogrezilla]

fair enough. Like I said, I hope we switch Horny back to Sid's line. And I honestly think we will unless we make a trade.