Speculation: Coyotes 2021 Offseason Roster Discussion Thread #2

[Jakey53]

I can't believe Armstrong's year 2 of his 5 year plan was burn it down and starting over. That being said, my trade candidates would have Schmaltz and Kessel as 1-2 in a retool.

Who cares any more. Chayka come in guns a blazing, and most thought he was a genius, top 5 GM, and then, everything fell to pieces. I'm starting to get the same feeling with BA. Maybe I'll feel better if he kills it in a couple of trades or at the draft, but if I was a betting man..... Maybe Bettman promised us a lottery win. We sure in hell deserve it, as fans anyway.

 

[Jakey53]

OEL + Fischer + Capobianco + 37 overall to BOS

for

Debrusk + Moore + 21 overall

Schmaltz to MINN

for

Dumba

Sign UFA's McCabe and Kevan Miller for D

Chychrun-Dumba
Moore-Miller
McCabe-Lybushkin

Who plays C?

 

[RemoAZ]

Who cares any more. Chayka come in guns a blazing, and most thought he was a genius, top 5 GM, and then, everything fell to pieces. I'm starting to get the same feeling with BA. Maybe I'll feel better if he kills it in a couple of trades or at the draft, but if I was a betting man..... Maybe Bettman promised us a lottery win. We sure in hell deserve it, as fans anyway.

I never liked Chayka, his trades or any of the shit he said. So far, Armstrong is saying the right things. I'm gonna give him a chance to put a stamp on the team. I think he did well with next to no opportunity to change anything last year.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Who plays C?

I put these together more focused on D, which is gonna be super precarious when we trade OEL. Maybe it’s better to focus on hypothetical Kessel trades rather than Schmaltz as the former is almost certainly going to be traded, but I felt like schmaltz for Dumba is good value for both teams.

Center is going to be horrible next season no matter what. There is no bandaid solution for it, and no UFA’s that interest. Our best hope for center is Shane Wright, Brad Lambert, etc..

 

[Jakey53]

I never liked Chayka, his trades or any of the shit he said. So far, Armstrong is saying the right things. I'm gonna give him a chance to put a stamp on the team. I think he did well with next to no opportunity to change anything last year.

BA had no opportunity to do much last year, except getting rid of that useless Stepan, so I give him credit for that. Talk is cheap, just like the new coach is going to be, and probably the new AGM. AM had to save a few bucks so he could buy that house, or should I say mansion. Least we know he is not hurting for money.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I put these together more focused on D, which is gonna be super precarious when we trade OEL. Maybe it’s better to focus on hypothetical Kessel trades rather than Schmaltz as the former is almost certainly going to be traded, but I felt like schmaltz for Dumba is good value for both teams.

Center is going to be horrible next season no matter what. There is no bandaid solution for it, and no UFA’s that interest. Our best hope for center is Shane Wright, Brad Lambert, etc..

Any idea on what MINN will do with expansion? Parise, and Zuccarello have NMC. Then they have Eriksson Ek, Greenway, Fiala. I think Kaprizov needs to be protected as well. Plus Sturm and Hartman...

Suter NMC, Spurgeon, Brodin, and Dumba on D.

If they're planning on protecting 7/3 they don't have any leverage in a Dumba trade. (Likely dump him to a non divisional team though...) If they go 4/4 then they're going to lose a very good F.

 

[rt]

Wasn’t the rumour that Edmonton had something in front of armstrong that he liked last year?

Yep. The rumor was he liked the Edmonton offer best but OEL wouldn't expand his list.

 

[rt]

I wonder if Carolina comes calling for Kuemper. They did last year.

Makes even more sense now with Reimer and Mrazek set to be UFAs. Kuemper could share the net and mentor Nedeljkovic for a season until he is a UFA himself. We know the levels Kuemper can reach. Just imagine if Carolina had that these playoffs, when goaltending did them in.

From our side, I wonder if Army is still enamored with Dominik Bokk. He had a good first season in the AHL. Even more impressive when you consider it was his first year ever in North America.

Kuemper for Bokk makes sense on all fronts.

 

[BruinsJoe]

OEL needs a change of scenery, but not in a cap dump. He needs to gain back that passion he once had.

i hope it s gonna be Boston, he know he have to better, a change for Boston give him great responsability in the top four and probably with McAvoy it is gonna be interesting, and Carlo another great D to play with....and at Boston he s not gonna be a captain so another good thing for him to be concentred on how he play, i think he s a beast and really good D and it s gonna be great for Bruins....and OEL

 

[Mosby]

Kuemper for Bokk makes sense on all fronts.

Main boarded it!

 

[Matias Maccete]

If we trade OEL I'd just name Chychrun Dvo and Garland all assistant captains. Maybe get a grizzled vet defenseman or middle sixer instead of Garland if we want someone older.

 

[Jakey53]

Main boarded it!

Some of these deals you guys come up with are just terrible.

 

[rt]

According to a highly reliable insider on the Boston board, OEL not only continues to have Boston and Vancouver as teams where he would waive his NMC, but also now has added Minnesota and Colorado to his list. So, now you have four teams as trade partners.

OEL+Kuemper(50%) for Graves+Compher

 

[rt]

i hope it s gonna be Boston, he know he have to better, a change for Boston give him great responsability in the top four and probably with McAvoy it is gonna be interesting, and Carlo another great D to play with....and at Boston he s not gonna be a captain so another good thing for him to be concentred on how he play, i think he s a beast and really good D and it s gonna be great for Bruins....and OEL

DeBrusk+Moore?

 

[rt]

Main boarded it!

OEL for Gardiner+Bokk?

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

DeBrusk+Moore?

Seriously? Not even a pick? By midnight are we going to be looking at a buyout for OEL because he's just so damn bad at hockey?

I don't understand why we're asking for peanuts. Expect a cap dump but we also need to get value.

 

[rt]

Seriously? Not even a pick? By midnight are we going to be looking at a buyout for OEL because he's just so damn bad at hockey?

I don't understand why we're asking for peanuts. Expect a cap dump but we also need to get value.

Buy him out? You’re nuts. You wanna pay 5.5aav for TWELVE years?!? LOL.

If I could tear up his contract and get absolutely nothing in return, I’d do it in a second. And so would Bill Armstrong. He’d happily trade OEL for a 7th round pick if he could. There isn’t a team in the league that would offer a 7th round pick for OEL.

 

[RemoAZ]

That's just not true. I can't believe how much you're underrating OEL. It's criminal.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Buy him out? You’re nuts. You wanna pay 5.5aav for TWELVE years?!? LOL.

If I could tear up his contract and get absolutely nothing in return, I’d do it in a second. And so would Bill Armstrong. He’d happily trade OEL for a 7th round pick if he could. There isn’t a team in the league that would offer a 7th round pick for OEL.

I was making a joke at your proposal.

You're out to lunch man. Bill may not have ever signed off on that contract but if he treats the OEL trade in the same manor as you are, I hope they fire him. I mean that genuinely.

 

[XX]

That's just not true. I can't believe how much you're underrating OEL. It's criminal.

OEL has been playing at a sub replacement level as a 2nd pair guy for three years straight. The data and tape is out there for everyone to see. Every commentator expects the Coyotes to at least take one contract back in the deal. Even Craig is hip to this. He is not an exceptional hitter, fighter, leader, PKer, shot blocker etc... and his 5v5 play has continued to decline. All of that combines with his contract to really limit his trade value.

You're out to lunch man. Bill may not have ever signed off on that contract but if he treats the OEL trade in the same manor as you are, I hope they fire him. I mean that genuinely.

There's a very good chance tearing up the contract outright would leave you in a better net position than what an eventual OEL deal will look like.

 

[Mosby]

OEL for Gardiner+Bokk?

We can get more

 

[rt]

That's just not true. I can't believe how much you're underrating OEL. It's criminal.

If OEL agreed to waive his NMC for waivers, there are zero teams that would claim him. There is no question of that. A cap dump coming back is absolutely required. We will also get a small asset to offset that negative value.

Eriksson+2nd
Gardiner+2nd
Gostisbehere+2nd
Lucic+2nd

^ Like that.

 

[Jakey53]

That's just not true. I can't believe how much you're underrating OEL. It's criminal.

It's criminally stupid.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

OEL has been playing at a sub replacement level as a 2nd pair guy for three years straight. The data and tape is out there for everyone to see. Every commentator expects the Coyotes to at least take one contract back in the deal.

What the tape will show you is OEL has been carrying a 2nd pairing on his own. There's not many Coyote defensemen who could partner a scrub and do that. Numminen could. Michalek. Derek Morris. Chychrun and Yandle certainly could not.

It's not exactly a revelation the Coyotes will take back a contract in a trade - I don't think that was ever in dispute, that's just how trades work now.

There's a very good chance tearing up the contract outright would leave you in a better net position than what an eventual OEL deal will look like.

Cap space is valuable. However I think both you and RT are guilty of overrating it's value with a very big assumption the Coyotes can then use it to get elite players at a reasonable cost to join a country club. That's never been a success from Tony Amonte to Taylor Hall.

If OEL agreed to waive his NMC for waivers, there are zero teams that would claim him. There is no question of that. A cap dump coming back is absolutely required. We will also get a small asset to offset that negative value.

I dont think RemoAz is saying that OEL would be traded for *only* valuable stuff. What he's saying is that OEL isnt just a salary dump.

If I could tear up his contract and get absolutely nothing in return, I’d do it in a second. And so would Bill Armstrong. He’d happily trade OEL for a 7th round pick if he could. There isn’t a team in the league that would offer a 7th round pick for OEL.

The evidence contradicts you. Clearly if Bill Armstrong thought that then OEL would already be at Vancouver or Boston.

 

[rt]

What the tape will show you is OEL has been carrying a 2nd pairing on his own. There's not many Coyote defensemen who could partner a scrub and do that. Numminen could. Michalek. Derek Morris. Chychrun and Yandle certainly could not.

It's not exactly a revelation the Coyotes will take back a contract in a trade - I don't think that was ever in dispute, that's just how trades work now.



Cap space is valuable. However I think both you and RT are guilty of overrating it's value with a very big assumption the Coyotes can then use it to get elite players at a reasonable cost to join a country club. That's never been a success from Tony Amonte to Taylor Hall.



I dont think RemoAz is saying that OEL would be traded for *only* valuable stuff. What he's saying is that OEL isnt just a salary dump.



The evidence contradicts you. Clearly if Bill Armstrong thought that then OEL would already be at Vancouver or Boston.

That was last off season. It’s not the same as this off-season.