Value of: Coyle, Carlo, Peeke, and/or Frederic

[elitepete]

Myers and Lekk for Carlo?

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Many Buffalo fans I have seen want to move out their younger players for more established vets, especially a top four RHD. The main trade is Carlo for Cozens, the peripherals are simply to make the cap work better and fill spots.

That's just terrible value as the center of the trade

 

[Hookslide]

Carlo is probably the most expensive. Would be the ask on Peeke, Geekie or Carlo from LA?

LA would have Gavrikov and Moore available or maybe someone like Danault or Fiala if the right deal comes along.

Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke, Laferriere and Kempe aren't being moved.

The Bruins are good, Kings are not what I would consider a trade partner seeing as you have taken any names of interest off the board, and Bruins are not in position to take on their cap problems.

 

[Hookslide]

I could be okay with a deal like Carlo for Moore.

Would you now. not happening.

 

[Hookslide]

Anders Lee for Frederic

I always liked Lee, but age and money don't work.

 

[wintersej]

Myers and Lekk for Carlo?

I honestly don't see any move with Carlo not involving a bonified top six forward in a pure hockey trade.

If they were going to go for a near NHL ready prospect, I would prefer a Kulich based Buffalo deal both because I prefer him as a prospect and because being able to walk away from RFA Joker if its not working out is a feature.

 

[wintersej]

The Bruins are good, Kings are not what I would consider a trade partner seeing as you have taken any names of interest off the board, and Bruins are not in position to take on their cap problems.

I would see if there was a hockey trade to be made around Carlo and Fiala. Have to get the cap and value right with additions, which might be impossible, but its worth poking at.

 

[wintersej]

Would accept him as a dump from Buffalo

Kulich + Jokirhaju + 3rd round pick for Carlo

So what are your lines for the Bruins after this deal at 5 on 5 and on PK1 and PK2 after this deal? And what are your plans for breaking in Poitras and Lysell?

Every time I work it out it just looks like a team that is setting itself up for all the kids to be ready right when Pasta, Marchand, and the Lindholm's are leaving their prime or are out of the league in Marchand's case with a team that is worse in the meantime.

I'm fine with the general principle of doing a severe Carlo downgrade to help the forward group. But does the potential help Kulich could bring the forward group lineup timeline wise?

 

[Sevendust]

So what are your lines for the Bruins after this deal at 5 on 5 and on PK1 and PK2 after this deal? And what are your plans for breaking in Poitras and Lysell?

Every time I work it out it just looks like a team that is setting itself up for all the kids to be ready right when Pasta, Marchand, and the Lindholm's are leaving their prime or are out of the league in Marchand's case with a team that is worse in the meantime.

I'm fine with the general principle of doing a severe Carlo downgrade to help the forward group. But does the potential help Kulich could bring the forward group lineup timeline wise?

The Bruins as they are right now are going nowhere. They have to do a mini retool to get relevant again. Its the only way because they won't ever do a rebuilt. They have to get some young players with potential to get this retool done. Kulich has top 6 and center position potential and being with and training with Pasta and Zacha could be huge for him. Carlo has trade value but trading him worsens the team in the short term but this what you have to live on with a retool.

Poitras has the brain and hockey IQ for the NHL already BUT he hasn't the confidence and body to play in it. He still is prone to get hit bad in the AHL. Let him stay down there the year and develop. I am 100 percent sure that this is the right way for his longterm future.

I would have given Lysell a callup already but Sweeney prefered Johnson, Brazeau and Wahlstrom already over him this season. Right now it seems that he has the tools but not the toolbox to have a longterm future in the NHL.

Lines after trading Carlo with everybody healthy.

Kulich - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Lindholm - Wahlstrom
Frederic - Coyle - Brazeau
Koepke - Beecher - Kastelic
Geekie

Zadorov - McAvoy
Lindholm - Jokiharju
Lohrei - Peeke
 Wotherspoon

PK defense pairs

Peeke - McAvoy
Zadorov - Lindholm
McAvoy/Lindholm - Jokiharju

Jokiharju almost made Team Finland for the 4 Nations Tournament, still young, good cap hit, better offense than Carlo altough worse defensive game. I would take the gamble on him on being better in Boston than in Buffalo.

 

[Fourier]

So the worst contract in the NHL, a 30 yr old dman that can stick in the nhl currenlly in the A. A good prospect struggling in the A and a first two years out for a good 2/3 center on a good contract, a solid defensive top 4 rh d on a solid contract and another solid young top 9 power forward on an expiring contract. I'm gonna go ahead and assume correctly you're an Oil fan. You forgot the 50% retention on Nurse and the other pieces you're sending to the Bruins.

Regardless of what the proposal was you may want to revisit the whole "worst contract in the NHL" narrative. After a bit of a slow start for the whole team Nurse is having an excellent season. While the offense is down slightly from his year that saw him get that deal he is probably playing the best hockey of his career.

He and Kulak have been a dominant pair. Of the 93 pairs in the NHL who have played at least 150 minutes together they have the second best xGF% at 64.77% and are tied for the 5th best actual GF%. Since Nov 1, Nurse is tied for 10th in ES points by a defenseman and is first for +/-. Overall he is way above water vs elite competition with a 72.71% GF%.

No one is going to claim that Nurse is a bargain, and the sample size needs to get larger, but there is a fair bit of evidence that away from Ceci, who really was an anchor to more than just Nurse, he is a lot closer to earning that deal than most give him credit for.

 

[wintersej]

The Bruins as they are right now are going nowhere. They have to do a mini retool to get relevant again. Its the only way because they won't ever do a rebuilt. They have to get some young players with potential to get this retool done. Kulich has top 6 and center position potential and being with and training with Pasta and Zacha could be huge for him. Carlo has trade value but trading him worsens the team in the short term but this what you have to live on with a retool.

Poitras has the brain and hockey IQ for the NHL already BUT he hasn't the confidence and body to play in it. He still is prone to get hit bad in the AHL. Let him stay down there the year and develop. I am 100 percent sure that this is the right way for his longterm future.

I would have given Lysell a callup already but Sweeney prefered Johnson, Brazeau and Wahlstrom already over him this season. Right now it seems that he has the tools but not the toolbox to have a longterm future in the NHL.

Lines after trading Carlo with everybody healthy.

Kulich - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Lindholm - Wahlstrom
Frederic - Coyle - Brazeau
Koepke - Beecher - Kastelic
Geekie

Zadorov - McAvoy
Lindholm - Jokiharju
Lohrei - Peeke
 Wotherspoon

PK defense pairs

Peeke - McAvoy
Zadorov - Lindholm
McAvoy/Lindholm - Jokiharju

Jokiharju almost made Team Finland for the 4 Nations Tournament, still young, good cap hit, better offense than Carlo altough worse defensive game. I would take the gamble on him on being better in Boston than in Buffalo.

I mean if you are gonna put Kulich, who has performed at a level similar to Lysell in the A, on the first line…and Wahlstrom who was just waived and then passed over by half the league on the second line… what is the plan?

I hear you that they need some more youthful forwards… but is Kulich worth punting on the rest of Pasta’s prime over? Pasta is gonna be 29 later this season. How much longer do you think he can be the best player for a true contender? Unless you really think that 20 year old Kulich is going to be a legit first liner very very soon? And if you do, why not Poitras who has performed better than Kulich at both levels? And why not the 21 year old Lysell who has performed just as well as Kulich in the A?

I just think it’s too early to make a move like this. When Marchand has aged out in a couple of years and Pasta is in his 30s, totally. But until then, seems like you are better off trying to fix the couple holes in the forward group with guys that can contribute right now. The holes are real. But the holes that will hit when Marchand is done and Pasta is in his 30s will be much much bigger. And Kulich ain’t gonna solve them.

 

[57special]

kings asking about frederic. kaliyev for frederic would be a good swap imo probably small add from the kings

crap offer

 

[Beerz]

Can someone tell me the last time a defensive dman such as Carlo ever fetched a high value prospect such as Kulich?

 

[wintersej]

Can someone tell me the last time a defensive dman such as Carlo ever fetched a high value prospect such as Kulich?

How often to 6'5" shutdown right shot d-men with term on a very good contract get moved?

The only position harder to find than top 4 RD is top 6 C.

I mean shit, look at what Philly gave up to Buffalo in faint hopes of creating a top 4 big RD.

 

[Beerz]

How often to 6'5" shutdown right shot d-men with term on a very good contract get moved?

The only position harder to find than top 4 RD is top 6 C.

I mean shit, look at what Philly gave up to Buffalo in faint hopes of creating a top 4 big D.

I wouldn't use Chuck Fletcher trades as examples. Everyone knew from the moment the trade was announced it was a horribly bad trade for Philly.

I'm just looking for examples because I really can't find any.

Not to mention that Risto was a 40+ point dman... Carlo provides nothing offensively..... a solid strictly defensive dman ... when have they ever brought in a prospect at Kulichs level?

 

[wintersej]

I wouldn't use Chuck Fletcher trades as examples. Everyone knew from the moment the trade was announced it was a horribly bad trade for Philly.

I'm just looking for examples because I really can't find any.

Not to mention that Risto was a 40+ point dman... Carlo provides nothing offensively..... a solid strictly defensive dman ... when have they ever brought in a prospect at Kulichs level?

Well that's the rub. Top 4 big RD on good contracts just don't get moved so not anything to point to. Trouba was under duress but was much better than Carlo. Risto was much worse defensively, but had some offense and we aren't allowed to count it because it was an overpayment. Marino went for Ty Smith (who was a 17OA who just had finished leading rookie D in scoring and had a lower contract for a cap strapped Pens team) and a pick. Maybe that's the closest? But Ty Smith was more proven than Kulich (and he still flamed out) and the Pens really were desperate to clear the space.

 

[Fjordy]

Well that's the rub. Top 4 big RD on good contracts just don't get moved so not anything to point to. Trouba was under duress but was much better than Carlo. Risto was much worse defensively, but had some offense and we aren't allowed to count it because it was an overpayment. Marino went for Ty Smith (who was a 17OA who just had finished leading rookie D in scoring and had a lower contract for a cap strapped Pens team) and a pick. Maybe that's the closest? But Ty Smith was more proven than Kulich (and he still flamed out) and the Pens really were desperate to clear the space.

I think Ty Smith was traded after a very questionable season and a -26 rating (I know that's not quite right, judging by the rating), but his points weren't what they used to be. Kulich hasn't even played a season in the NHL yet and he's a very good young player. I like Carlo, he is a proven top 4 RD with a good contract and sometimes these guys return good profits and sometimes they don't.

 

[PlayMakers]

Well that's the rub. Top 4 big RD on good contracts just don't get moved so not anything to point to. Trouba was under duress but was much better than Carlo. Risto was much worse defensively, but had some offense and we aren't allowed to count it because it was an overpayment. Marino went for Ty Smith (who was a 17OA who just had finished leading rookie D in scoring and had a lower contract for a cap strapped Pens team) and a pick. Maybe that's the closest? But Ty Smith was more proven than Kulich (and he still flamed out) and the Pens really were desperate to clear the space.

Will Borgen for Kappo Kakko.

 

[wintersej]

I think Ty Smith was traded after a very questionable season and a -26 rating (I know that's not quite right, judging by the rating), but his points weren't what they used to be. Kulich hasn't even played a season in the NHL yet and he's a very good young player. I like Carlo, he is a proven top 4 RD with a good contract and sometimes these guys return good profits and sometimes they don't.

And the point is that for Boston to move him they would be shooting themselves in the foot, so they better get something to make up for it. Boston fans have been spoiled as f*** when it comes to RD with McAvoy and Carlo both stepping in as teenagers and I don't think they realize the dearth of them out there.

As @PlayMakers mentioned, the most recent example (which I brain farted on) is Kakko for Borgen. I think we would all agree that Carlo is a clear clear step above Borgen.

 

[Fjordy]

And the point is that for Boston to move him they would be shooting themselves in the foot, so they better get something to make up for it. Boston fans have been spoiled as f*** when it comes to RD with McAvoy and Carlo both stepping in as teenagers and I don't think they realize the dearth of them out there.

As @PlayMakers mentioned, the most recent example (which I brain farted on) is Kakko for Borgen. I think we would all agree that Carlo is a clear clear step above Borgen.

Let me tell you about great Finnish defender Henri Jokiharju, who could potentially replace Carlo for you.

 

[Sevendust]

I mean if you are gonna put Kulich, who has performed at a level similar to Lysell in the A, on the first line…and Wahlstrom who was just waived and then passed over by half the league on the second line… what is the plan?

I hear you that they need some more youthful forwards… but is Kulich worth punting on the rest of Pasta’s prime over? Pasta is gonna be 29 later this season. How much longer do you think he can be the best player for a true contender? Unless you really think that 20 year old Kulich is going to be a legit first liner very very soon? And if you do, why not Poitras who has performed better than Kulich at both levels? And why not the 21 year old Lysell who has performed just as well as Kulich in the A?

I just think it’s too early to make a move like this. When Marchand has aged out in a couple of years and Pasta is in his 30s, totally. But until then, seems like you are better off trying to fix the couple holes in the forward group with guys that can contribute right now. The holes are real. But the holes that will hit when Marchand is done and Pasta is in his 30s will be much much bigger. And Kulich ain’t gonna solve them.

The plan is to retool and to find out what you have in the young kids. This core right now is going nowhere and trading or keeping Carlo doesn't change this... I also would prefer to move on from Frederic and use his trade value to get a young prospect.

I have different opinion about Kulich. I saw him play on team Czech Republic on the U18 world juniors and he was their captain and best player by far. Right now I would choose Kulich over Lysell to have the more succesfull NHL career but I wouldn't even depend the addition of Kulich about what is going on with Lysell or Poitras. The play of the team this season clearly shows that they won't be a contender. Use the trade value of the players who are expendale to built your team of the future.

 

[TheNumber4]

Kulich + 3rd + Joki for Carlo

Seems like an overpay for Carlo. You’ll only have him for 1 and half years. The time to do this trade would have been in the offseason, if he can’t save the Sabres season this year I don’t see why the Sabres would want to do it.

Or maybe im overrating Kulich. But he’s a piece that could be there for 5+ years for the Sabres. And it’s not like Jokiharju is useless. Considering Carlo’s regression this year, Joki is probably not that far off from his impact already. Joki is only signed for a year though I guess so whatever.

 

[Fjordy]

Kulich + 3rd + Joki for Carlo

Seems like an overpay for Carlo. You’ll only have him for 1 and half years. The time to do this trade would have been in the offseason, if he can’t save the Sabres season this year I don’t see why the Sabres would want to do it.

Or maybe im overrating Kulich. But he’s a piece that could be there for 5+ years for the Sabres. And it’s not like Jokiharju is useless. Considering Carlo’s regression this year, Joki is probably not that far off from his impact already. Joki is only signed for a year though I guess so whatever.

Probably yes, but it doesn't matter, he has M-NTC and right now probably no player in the league wants to move to Buffalo, which has some kind of no-trade clause.

Although Carlo still has 2.5 years of contract, not one and a half.

 

[TheNumber4]

Probably yes, but it doesn't matter, he has M-NTC and right now probably no player in the league wants to move to Buffalo, which has some kind of no-trade clause.

Although Carlo still has 2.5 years of contract, not one and a half.

So the rest of this season and 2 more? Okay that changes things.

I do think the Sabres should be targeting a veteran RHD to really stabilize the back end. Ekholm did wonders for the Oil when they traded for him.

 

[Fjordy]

So the rest of this season and 2 more? Okay that changes things.

I do think the Sabres should be targeting a veteran RHD to really stabilize the back end. Ekholm did wonders for the Oil when they traded for him.

Our GM is an idiot or the owner doesn't want to spend money, or maybe both. This summer Marino, Jensen, Kovacevic were traded, plus during the season Fabbro, Carrier and Borgen, our GM didn't even sniff while his young top 4 defenseman was paired with marginal players.

Now, if you look at all the potential RDs, all the good vets have NTC/NMC, which means they won't go to Buffalo. Maybe a guy like Whitecloud from Vegas could be an option for us. The same Peeke from Boston is an option, everyone else is either young or a wild card. The season is over for us anyway, so I would try to find potentially good players for not too much cost.