COVID-19/Coronavirus Talk - Part II

[Stupendous Yappi]

The vaccine has been vetted through the exact same rigor and peer review as any other vaccine. They just did it quickly and urgently, because...ITS URGENT. To piss away the opportunity to be vaccinated is a person’s individual choice, but if enough of us are vaccinated it will save lives among the larger population, and the spread of the pandemic will peter out. I’m really not sure what more we’d have to see than what we have already seen, to motivate people to want to do something about it. It boggles my mind to read ignorant comments about deliberately avoiding the vaccine.

What exactly are people afraid of? OF COURSE there are side effects from the vaccine. But they’re rare (much rarer than deadly side effects from Covid, which we already know are low in the young population). There is some pretty straightforward math about which thing is riskier, Covid or an annoying rare side effect from a vaccine. The vaccine wins pretty easily as being the better trade off to take.

 

[Ranksu]

If you are willing to take a risk with vaccine which has developed in fast pace, be my guest. I wonder are you willing to inject your child knowing there might some serious side affect?

It could be totally different and its totally safe, only mild side affects occure. I'm almost 40's (jeeus christ), and I'm not buy-in what kind of vaccine they have developed. You got USA vaccine, UK vaccine, China, Swedish and Russia etc. vaccine. Pick a card what is good?


These stats only note what has found in Finland.

It also came as a surprise to the general public and vaccination experts that swine flu vaccination increased the risk of falling asleep and narcolepsy in young people 1). Vaccines had about a 10-fold higher risk of developing this rather rare disease than those who did not. The development of narcolepsy required hereditary susceptibility and the specific structure of this influenza vaccine, which is not present in current influenza vaccines. It was therefore an autoimmune disease 2). Within two years of vaccination, the disease was diagnosed in 230 individuals so that it was considered to be triggered by vaccination. These patients have received financial compensation under the Medicines Injury Act.

Most Pandemrix® vaccinations were given in Finland by the end of February 2010. In retrospect, it has become clear that as early as February, an increased number of referrals had been made to a specialist due to the tendency of children to fall asleep. The same increase in disease was observed in other countries using Pandemrix®; In Sweden at the same time as Finland and later in Norway, France and Iceland. In Finland, pediatric neurologists and sleep researchers began to investigate the matter immediately during the spring of 2009. There were two initially suspected culprits; the swine flu virus itself and vaccinations. The Department of Health and Welfare (THL) set up an expert group to study the problem. A team of five pediatric neurologists and sleep researchers independent of THL identified cases from disease reports. Following the investigation, the link between vaccination and narcolepsy was already known in the summer of 2010. Pandemrix® vaccinations were discontinued in August 2010. Since the problem was identified, the phenomenon and its cause have been, and continue to be, scientifically investigated by epidemiology, genetics and immunology.

The epidemic was undeniably due to swine flu vaccinations. All patients have a predisposing tissue type. It seems obvious that how the structure of the influenza virus (nucleoprotein) in the vaccine has been made has been central to the onset of the autoimmune reaction. In other swine flu vaccines, it has been different from Pandemrix®. The enhancer, squalene, may have further enhanced the reaction. The current influenza vaccine still takes into account the A (H1N1) v virus, but the structure of the viral part of the vaccine is different and there is no scavellene in the current vaccine.

source

Sikainfluenssa-pandemia 2009–2010 ja rokotuksia seurannut narkolepsia

 

[Quaz]

The vaccine has been vetted through the exact same rigor and peer review as any other vaccine. They just did it quickly and urgently, because...ITS URGENT. To piss away the opportunity to be vaccinated is a person’s individual choice, but if enough of us are vaccinated it will save lives among the larger population, and the spread of the pandemic will peter out. I’m really not sure what more we’d have to see than what we have already seen, to motivate people to want to do something about it. It boggles my mind to read ignorant comments about deliberately avoiding the vaccine.

What exactly are people afraid of? OF COURSE there are side effects from the vaccine. But they’re rare (much rarer than deadly side effects from Covid, which we already know are low in the young population). There is some pretty straightforward math about which thing is riskier, Covid or an annoying rare side effect from a vaccine. The vaccine wins pretty easily as being the better trade off to take.

Here is what people are afraid of. There has never been a vaccine developed for an RNA virus. No one knows the long term side effects or risks of the vaccines that are being developed. The testing is being done on healthy individuals. There is no guarantee that the vaccine will even work. I have had several Doctors advise me to not get the vaccine. I’m not knocking people that want to get it, but to call people that don’t want to get it ignorant is short sighted and simply not true.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Here is what people are afraid of. There has never been a vaccine developed for an RNA virus. No one knows the long term side effects or risks of the vaccines that are being developed. The testing is being done on healthy individuals. There is no guarantee that the vaccine will even work. I have had several Doctors advise me to not get the vaccine. I’m not knocking people that want to get it, but to call people that don’t want to get it ignorant is short sighted and simply not true.

I don’t know your personal health situation, but if you can find a doctor who is blanket advising people not to get a Covid vaccine, I’ll show you a quack.

Concern that it “might not work” is not a reason not to get vaccinated. That’s specious.

The statement that there hasn’t been a vaccine against an RNA virus is simply false. For example: influenza. That’s just simply a wildly false statement.

Maybe you’re referring to the novel use of mRNA (messenger RNA) in the vaccine strategies for Pfizer and Moderna). So what? It’s about getting your immune system to present antigens that it will recognize and fight which are close enough to the wild virus you may later encounter. Just because this vaccine resulted from a concentrated heroic effort of scientists to use creative means to induce the antigen using mRNA is no reason to avoid it. I can just imagine the same people arguing with Jonas Salk and letting their kids get polio, because the polio vaccine was too new.

The mRNA method is a lot more comforting than a vaccine using cruder older techniques with attenuated (live) virus. With the mRNA technique you are never exposed to any infectious material, avoiding the potential side effect of actually getting an infection FROM the vaccine.

There are far better sources than me easily available online to answer questions from sincerely concerned and interested people which adequately explain all this stuff. Start with the CDC website.

I will not budge from my firm stance that anyone advising the general population to avoid the Covid vaccine is a quack if they’re medically trained, or is simply a person acting out of personal ignorance or misguided, and contributing directly to harm of the general population. If you talk someone’s grandma out of getting vaccinated and she dies from Covid, it’s easy to connect the dots. If you talk Joe Schmo out of getting vaccinated and he gets Covid then passes it to grandma, it’s the same.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

For anyone interested, this is an explanation from the CDC. If you’re a conspiracy nut who doesn’t trust the CDC, just say so at the beginning of your post so we can both avoid a long fruitless argument.

 

[Mike Liut]

Here is what people are afraid of. There has never been a vaccine developed for an RNA virus. No one knows the long term side effects or risks of the vaccines that are being developed. The testing is being done on healthy individuals. There is no guarantee that the vaccine will even work. I have had several Doctors advise me to not get the vaccine. I’m not knocking people that want to get it, but to call people that don’t want to get it ignorant is short sighted and simply not true.

+1000

 

[Mike Liut]

I’ve already had Covid and it wasn’t bad at all. There is no reason for me to get the vaccine, especially with a 99+% survival rate.

weren’t people dying when they tried to rush a Sars vaccine in?

 

[Brockon]

I don’t know your personal health situation, but if you can find a doctor who is blanket advising people not to get a Covid vaccine, I’ll show you a quack.

Concern that it “might not work” is not a reason not to get vaccinated. That’s spurious.

The statement that there hasn’t been a vaccine against an RNA virus is simply false. For example: influenza. That’s just simply a wildly false statement.

Maybe you’re referring to the novel use of mRNA (messenger RNA) in the vaccine strategies for Pfizer and Moderna). So what? It’s about getting your immune system to present antigens that it will recognize and fight which are close enough to the wild virus you may later encounter. Just because this vaccine resulted from a concentrated heroic effort of scientists to use creative means to induce the antigen using mRNA is no reason to avoid it. I can just imagine the same people arguing with Jonas Salk and letting their kids get polio, because the polio vaccine was too new.

The mRNA method is a lot more comforting than a vaccine using cruder older techniques with attenuated (live) virus. With the mRNA technique you are never exposed to any infectious material, avoiding the potential side effect of actually getting an infection FROM the vaccine.

There are far better sources than me easily available online to answer questions from sincerely concerned and interested people which adequately explain all this stuff. Start with the CDC website.

I will not budge from my firm stance that anyone advising the general population to avoid the Covid vaccine is a quack if they’re medically trained, or is simply a person acting out of personal ignorance or misguided, and contributing directly to harm of the general population. If you talk someone’s grandma out of getting vaccinated and she dies from Covid, it’s easy to connect the dots. If you talk Joe Schmo out of getting vaccinated and he gets Covid then passes it to grandma, it’s the same.

Aren't there currently 3 different vaccines near release? I'd heard 2 (Pzicer and Moderna) vaccines only prevent the immunized from being ill - they don't break the transmission chain, in fact relieving a carrier of any symptoms and leaving them as an active source of spread.

Is this just misinformation, in an age of questionable sources or is there something to the claims that the AstraZeneca provides a better layer of protection for society around those that do get immunized with that particular vaccine?

I know that if the claims that the Pzifer and Moderna vaccines only immunize a person against the symptoms (and illness) but leave them as a viable carrier, we're about to face massive challenges keeping people respecting anything remotely COVID-19 protocols alive.

I know enough people first-hand that seem to believe being flu-vaccined means they don't need to show caution, I'd anticipate many Covid vaccined people stop respecting the protocols entirely - BeCaUsE Im ImMuNe.

 

[Ranksu]

Here is good article about one particular swin flu vaccine and its result.

Saying vaccines are safe and doesn't have big side effects its baloney.

This is also reason when quickly developed vaccine goes to mass vaccination. Not tested enough.

Narcolepsy Following 2009 Pandemrix Influenza Vaccination in Europe | Vaccine Safety | CDC

 

[Quaz]

I don’t know your personal health situation, but if you can find a doctor who is blanket advising people not to get a Covid vaccine, I’ll show you a quack.

Concern that it “might not work” is not a reason not to get vaccinated. That’s specious.

The statement that there hasn’t been a vaccine against an RNA virus is simply false. For example: influenza. That’s just simply a wildly false statement.

Maybe you’re referring to the novel use of mRNA (messenger RNA) in the vaccine strategies for Pfizer and Moderna). So what? It’s about getting your immune system to present antigens that it will recognize and fight which are close enough to the wild virus you may later encounter. Just because this vaccine resulted from a concentrated heroic effort of scientists to use creative means to induce the antigen using mRNA is no reason to avoid it. I can just imagine the same people arguing with Jonas Salk and letting their kids get polio, because the polio vaccine was too new.

The mRNA method is a lot more comforting than a vaccine using cruder older techniques with attenuated (live) virus. With the mRNA technique you are never exposed to any infectious material, avoiding the potential side effect of actually getting an infection FROM the vaccine.

There are far better sources than me easily available online to answer questions from sincerely concerned and interested people which adequately explain all this stuff. Start with the CDC website.

I will not budge from my firm stance that anyone advising the general population to avoid the Covid vaccine is a quack if they’re medically trained, or is simply a person acting out of personal ignorance or misguided, and contributing directly to harm of the general population. If you talk someone’s grandma out of getting vaccinated and she dies from Covid, it’s easy to connect the dots. If you talk Joe Schmo out of getting vaccinated and he gets Covid then passes it to grandma, it’s the same.

If you want to inject a vaccine that has no long term studies of adverse side effects that is your choice. The CDC is going to have a vaccine safety monitoring program to record all adverse side effects. Why go to the trouble if it is completely safe for everyone? Multiple sources are saying that they don't believe that an mRNA vaccine will work or that it will not be a long term solution due to how fragile it is (must be stored at -70C or it breaks down). The Doctor I know that advises against the vaccine is not a quack. He will be testifying before the OH Supreme Court this week. He is a big proponent, as are many others, of supplementing with Vitamin D and Zinc to protect against the virus. Here is a link to an article from the British Medical Association if you would like to learn more about this:

Vitamin D Mitigates COVID-19, Say 40+ Patient Studies: Vitamin D Mitigates COVID-19, Say 40+ Patient Studies (listed below) – Yet BAME, Elderly, Care-homers, and Obese are still ‘D’ deficient, thus at greater COVID-19 risk - WHY?

Of course Vitamin D cannot be patented and there is no major money to be made from it so it won't be pushed as a solution in the US.

Here is a quote from another article regarding vitamin D supplementation:

"Simply going to your local pharmacy, purchasing a vitamin D supplement and taking it as directed can significantly reduce your risk for getting this deadly disease," study co-author Dr. Michael F. Holick told UPI.
"That's as good, if not better, than what any potential vaccine will do in terms of protection," said Holick, a professor of physiology, biophysics and molecular medicine at Boston University.

I guess Dr. MIchael F. Holick is a quack as well.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Aren't there currently 3 different vaccines near release? I'd heard 2 (Pzicer and Moderna) vaccines only prevent the immunized from being ill - they don't break the transmission chain, in fact relieving a carrier of any symptoms and leaving them as an active source of spread.

Is this just misinformation, in an age of questionable sources or is there something to the claims that the AstraZeneca provides a better layer of protection for society around those that do get immunized with that particular vaccine?

I know that if the claims that the Pzifer and Moderna vaccines only immunize a person against the symptoms (and illness) but leave them as a viable carrier, we're about to face massive challenges keeping people respecting anything remotely COVID-19 protocols alive.

I know enough people first-hand that seem to believe being flu-vaccined means they don't need to show caution, I'd anticipate many Covid vaccined people stop respecting the protocols entirely - BeCaUsE Im ImMuNe.

I think the different manufacturers have different markets they will be targeting. I’m not sure we are going to be shopping for our choice of vaccine in the USA, at least not initially.

I’ll tell you the main differences that I understand.

- AstraZeneca uses an adenovirus based vaccine, an older technology. The results of their effectiveness is not totally clear. Apparently there was a dosing error and they have two different sets of results. So the efficacy for preventing symptomatic Covid was between 62% and 9o%. But it’s more stable to transport and requires less refrigeration. This vaccine may be a good option for some developing countries, although it appears to be less effective than the other two you mentioned. There is a little criticism about how they’ve presented their data, so maybe the efficacy will be more clear later.

- I’m going to lump the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines together for a moment. They showed similar efficacy, about 95% for preventing symptomatic Covid. The issue with the mRNA as far as I can tell is that it’s got more narrow requirements for stability for transport and storing the vaccine. It has nothing to do with concerns about how it works in the body. More careful refrigeration is necessary, and the concern is that vaccine distributed in large numbers might create challenges if that is not observed carefully.

- I’m trying to understand your question about the mRNA vaccine leading to carrier status, but I can’t figure out where that is coming from. The difference between the adenovirus technique and the mRNA technique is in how the proteins are presented to the body. The vaccine delivers proteins that look like parts of the Covid virus, and the person’s immune system recognizes it as foreign, and creates antibodies to patrol for and recognize Covid. The immune system is then primed for fighting a later exposure to Covid.

With the adenovirus technique, proteins from Covid are inserted into a different virus (adenovirus), one that is intentionally easy for your immune system to defeat. The body learns to recognize the Covid proteins (antigens) and produces antibodies ready to fight it.

With the mRNA vaccines, the messenger RNA is presented to the person via the vaccine. mRNA is a template/code the body can read to translate (build) a corresponding protein. So the mRNA is telling the recipient’s body how to make the protein....protein that is the same found in Covid and that can be recognized later. The body goes through the same process of producing antibodies against the protein. Same end process, but two different ways to get the protein/antigen where it needs to be to induce an immune reaction.

There’s nothing about this process that would result in a different kind of immune response or a different immunity status (carrier? status?). The biggest risk with the mRNA vaccine is careless handling and inoculating people with a product that has “spoiled” and isn’t effective because it wasn’t refrigerated correctly.

I suspect AstraZeneca’s vaccine is going to be delayed a bit because of concerns over inadequate effectiveness. They accidentally gave 1/2 strength doses followed by full dose 2nd injection. That had 90% efficacy. When they did the correct full dose both injections, they got 62% efficacy. They did some statistical sleight of hand and combined the results to get 70% or something in between. But there is no explanation for why the accidental dose was more effective. Competing with other vaccines that are performing better and ready now, there is a lot of pressure.

I don’t know where these ‘concerns’ are originating, but I can recognize that this is a huge stakes financial endeavor. There will be winners and losers among the vaccine developers. It’s easy to see motivation to cast doubt on a competitor’s vaccine. Maybe that’s cynical, but it’s an explanation.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

If you want to inject a vaccine that has no long term studies of adverse side effects that is your choice. The CDC is going to have a vaccine safety monitoring program to record all adverse side effects. Why go to the trouble if it is completely safe for everyone? Multiple sources are saying that they don't believe that an mRNA vaccine will work or that it will not be a long term solution due to how fragile it is (must be stored at -70C or it breaks down). The Doctor I know that advises against the vaccine is not a quack. He will be testifying before the OH Supreme Court this week. He is a big proponent, as are many others, of supplementing with Vitamin D and Zinc to protect against the virus. Here is a link to an article from the British Medical Association if you would like to learn more about this:

Vitamin D Mitigates COVID-19, Say 40+ Patient Studies: Vitamin D Mitigates COVID-19, Say 40+ Patient Studies (listed below) – Yet BAME, Elderly, Care-homers, and Obese are still ‘D’ deficient, thus at greater COVID-19 risk - WHY?

Of course Vitamin D cannot be patented and there is no major money to be made from it so it won't be pushed as a solution in the US.

Here is a quote from another article regarding vitamin D supplementation:

"Simply going to your local pharmacy, purchasing a vitamin D supplement and taking it as directed can significantly reduce your risk for getting this deadly disease," study co-author Dr. Michael F. Holick told UPI.
"That's as good, if not better, than what any potential vaccine will do in terms of protection," said Holick, a professor of physiology, biophysics and molecular medicine at Boston University.

I guess Dr. MIchael F. Holick is a quack as well.

You realize this is the same thing done for EVERY vaccine and FDA approved medication ever, right? There are pre-market safety studies, then efficacy studies. If things still look favorable for both safety and efficacy, post-market safety studies continue. Occasionally, side effects come to light that lead to modifications for the indication of the treatment or even pulling the drug from the market. It’s a balance between providing the benefit of the treatment as soon as reasonably possible and performing thorough surveillance for adverse issues.

You can find several patient advocate groups petitioning for a more streamlined process to make experimental medicines available sooner. It’s a tug of war between longer observation for safety studies while people are suffering and dying from potentially preventable health issues, assuming an effective treatment. The Covid vaccine is no different.

I’ll also point out: I specifically did NOT say it’s always safe for everyone. I said the risks are higher from Covid than from the vaccine. It’s not a particularly close comparison, risk of adverse reaction to the vaccine vs risk of impairment or death from the virus. The vaccine doesn’t have to be perfect to be the better option. It just has to be better than the alternative, an alternative we’ve been watching around us for months now.

I’m not going to respond to your Vitamin D comments other than to point out there is no choice between Vitamin D and a vaccine. Do both. The research you refer to has no bearing on a national vaccine program. If you’re so confident in the efficacy of Vit D, go for it. And get vaccinated too. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[TruBlu]

I’ve already had Covid and it wasn’t bad at all. There is no reason for me to get the vaccine, especially with a 99+% survival rate.

weren’t people dying when they tried to rush a Sars vaccine in?

Same here. My experience with covid was that it's less intense, but longer lasting than the flu. I'm usually over the flu within 48 hours. Covid hung around to some degree for about a week. Never broke 100 degree temp. Main thing I noticed was that I fatigued easier, but I've never had to pretty much do nothing but sit around for 2 weeks before so that may play a part in it.

 

[Quaz]

You realize this is the same thing done for EVERY vaccine and FDA approved medication ever, right? There are pre-market safety studies, then efficacy studies. If things still look favorable for both safety and efficacy, post-market safety studies continue. Occasionally, side effects come to light that lead to modifications for the indication of the treatment or even pulling the drug from the market. It’s a balance between providing the benefit of the treatment as soon as reasonably possible and performing thorough surveillance for adverse issues.

You can find several patient advocate groups petitioning for a more streamlined process to make experimental medicines available sooner. It’s a tug of war between longer observation for safety studies while people are suffering and dying from potentially preventable health issues, assuming an effective treatment. The Covid vaccine is no different.

I’ll also point out: I specifically did NOT say it’s always safe for everyone. I said the risks are higher from Covid than from the vaccine. It’s not a particularly close comparison, risk of adverse reaction to the vaccine vs risk of impairment or death from the virus. The vaccine doesn’t have to be perfect to be the better option. It just has to be better than the alternative, an alternative we’ve been watching around us for months now.

I’m not going to respond to your Vitamin D comments other than to point out there is no choice between Vitamin D and a vaccine. Do both. The research you refer to has no bearing on a national vaccine program. If you’re so confident in the efficacy of Vit D, go for it. And get vaccinated too. They are not mutually exclusive.

I didn't bring up Vit D to say you have to choose between one or the other. Just pointing out that there are ways to protect yourself from the virus outside of getting the vaccination. I also don't agree with the thinking that anyone that doesn't get the vaccination is a threat to society. If the vaccinations work then how is an unvaccinated person a threat to a vaccinated person? I agree with you that there are definitely people that cannot take vaccine due to other heath issues. They would be the only ones at risk of coming in contact with an unvaccinated carrier, but I would assume if you are at risk that you would be careful to limit contact with others. Also the mortality data from the CDC shows that 87% of the deaths from/with COVID come from people over the age of 55. For people under the age of 55 the risk of vaccine injury may be greater than their risk of Covid. The FDA has approved many drugs prescribed by Doctors for years only to find out later that they have some adverse long term side-effects. There are still risks that need to be weighed.

 

[Ranksu]

Its not Chy-na virus its In-dia or grease virus, 'Cus fat ppl die for it

Chinese Researchers Claim COVID-19 Originated In Greece Or India - Greek City Times

 

[Ranksu]

Chyna lied all the time. China's mishandling of the early stages of Covid-19 pandemic revealed by leaked documents - CNN

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I don't think anyone disputes that China mishandled things early on. Still, that could have been alleviated if we hadn't also f***ed things up.

But, we did - and 10 months later, we're all still dealing with the ramifications of it and we're nearing 270K deaths in the U.S. and 1.5 million worldwide, and I'm pissed I can't see friends and co-workers and likely won't for another 6+ months, and I have to worry about my dad going out and getting infected, and I'm f***ing pissed that a dinner I had planned with a long-time friend that I haven't seen in years had to get cancelled because she had real concerns she had been exposed after two of her co-workers tested positive with symptoms.

And then I spilled coffee on the desk. GDI, Ranksu - thanks for ruining my Tuesday morning. This is all on you.

 

[DeuceNine]

I don’t know your personal health situation, but if you can find a doctor who is blanket advising people not to get a Covid vaccine, I’ll show you a quack.

Concern that it “might not work” is not a reason not to get vaccinated. That’s specious.

I will not budge from my firm stance that anyone advising the general population to avoid the Covid vaccine is a quack if they’re medically trained, or is simply a person acting out of personal ignorance or misguided, and contributing directly to harm of the general population. If you talk someone’s grandma out of getting vaccinated and she dies from Covid, it’s easy to connect the dots. If you talk Joe Schmo out of getting vaccinated and he gets Covid then passes it to grandma, it’s the same.

Clipped the most precious parts.

Truth is, people are more than free to beta test en masse this vaccine, whatever it may be. I won't be among them. And plenty of professionals have misgivings about being the first in line to do this. The smarter ones are preaching FIRST proper vitamin dosing, including (especially) zinc, managing weight, not smoking and generally trying to reduce your body's inflammation as much as possible so that C19 can't take hold as easily.

I think between the mask/vaccine/stay at home orders we're missing a golden opportunity to discuss overall health and personal responsibility. I get we live in an era where activists want to put obese women in swimsuit magazines because "all bodies are beautiful," so there's that mindset to overcome. We face that with the Covie: no one's really discussing everyone's horrible eating habits but we're quick to over-focus on a virus that takes advantage of these issues, more than killing people outright. That's just the facts.

 

[joe galiba]

There is no real golden opportunity
out of shape individuals are well aware of it

they make their choices in life and it is not anyone else's business
and size isn't necessarily an indicator of health
I know skinny people who are quite unhealthy and I know chunkers who could kick my butt in a 5k or a workout class

 

[Ranksu]

And then I spilled coffee on the desk. GDI, Ranksu - thanks for ruining my Tuesday morning. This is all on you.

Sorry mate.

I have still bad news. Looks like finnish league (hockey) season will be shutdown. Too many cases, no ppl at attendance, teams have/had to postponed games.

I dont want to be Debbie Downer, but man if we cant control covid and sport together I really cant see how on earth will NHL accomplish that? Noteing how well overally in Finland we've manage to easy down spread.

Without vaccine it cannot be done.

I dont believe we wont see NHL season until ppl are vaccinated. So it is autumn of 2021 when next NHL season starts?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Sorry mate.

I have still bad news. Looks like finnish league (hockey) season will be shutdown. Too many cases, no ppl at attendance, teams have/had to postponed games.

I dont want to be Debbie Downer, but man if we cant control covid and sport together I really cant see how on earth will NHL accomplish that? Noteing how well overally in Finland we've manage to easy down spread.

Without vaccine it cannot be done.

I dont believe we wont see NHL season until ppl are vaccinated. So it is autumn of 2021 when next NHL season starts?

No, they'll push forward probably starting February because they'll (say to themselves) they have to. And since no even semi-high profile athlete has been seriously sickened or worse after being infected, there's no real consequences to be suffered. It will be "out of sight, out of mind but we'll go through a charade of protecting everyone - and if people get infected, it's a price we'll pay."

Then again,

• I was convinced one of the bubbles would get penetrated and there would be an outbreak that forced someone to shut it down
• I expected MLB to have more problems than it did and to plow forward, consequences be damned
• I am shocked there hasn't been someone who's been seriously sickened after being infected, be it in the immediate timeframe after infection or weeks/months later suffering various health problems
• I still can't believe the stock market is trading at all-time highs on undying optimism about [insert cause], reality be damned

So clearly take my thoughts with a large-sized block of salt.

 

[Celtic Note]

Clipped the most precious parts.

Truth is, people are more than free to beta test en masse this vaccine, whatever it may be. I won't be among them. And plenty of professionals have misgivings about being the first in line to do this. The smarter ones are preaching FIRST proper vitamin dosing, including (especially) zinc, managing weight, not smoking and generally trying to reduce your body's inflammation as much as possible so that C19 can't take hold as easily.

I think between the mask/vaccine/stay at home orders we're missing a golden opportunity to discuss overall health and personal responsibility. I get we live in an era where activists want to put obese women in swimsuit magazines because "all bodies are beautiful," so there's that mindset to overcome. We face that with the Covie: no one's really discussing everyone's horrible eating habits but we're quick to over-focus on a virus that takes advantage of these issues, more than killing people outright. That's just the facts.

I think we are generally correct not to body shame. Besides being insulting, it can be damaging to people mentally to the point that they turn to habits that reinforce the problem or worst yet, ones that are more damaging. There is also the quintessential inner beauty that resides in many that we shouldn’t take for granted, especially in a world that tends to have too many moments of being superficial.

There is also a need for us to be honest about the health ramifications of issues like being overweight. But we can divorce sharing the knowledge and trying to get people to be healthier from the social stigmatization of the health issues people face. We can bring compassion and information at the same time.

The challenge to a lot of this is we live in a world where pharma controls so many aspects of our healthcare system, healthcare research and honestly the average persons belief system when it comes to healthcare. A lot of doctors peddle pills as quick solutions to wholistic problems. Often they do that because they believe the patient is more likely to respond to something that instantaneously masks the symptoms than one that gets to the root of the problem but takes time and commitment. And in most cases the doctor probably isn’t wrong in that belief, because generally people would rather choose the easy way that lets them continue their destructive habits.

 

[Celtic Note]

No, they'll push forward probably starting February because they'll (say to themselves) they have to. And since no even semi-high profile athlete has been seriously sickened or worse after being infected, there's no real consequences to be suffered. It will be "out of sight, out of mind but we'll go through a charade of protecting everyone - and if people get infected, it's a price we'll pay."

Then again,

• I was convinced one of the bubbles would get penetrated and there would be an outbreak that forced someone to shut it down
• I expected MLB to have more problems than it did and to plow forward, consequences be damned
• I am shocked there hasn't been someone who's been seriously sickened after being infected, be it in the immediate timeframe after infection or weeks/months later suffering various health problems
• I still can't believe the stock market is trading at all-time highs on undying optimism about [insert cause], reality be damned

So clearly take my thoughts with a large-sized block of salt.

The stock market is now largely divorced from the economy and is based on emotional projections. I wouldn’t put much stock into it being a useful barometer for anything other than your ability to retire. Even then it might not be reliable because it is being propped up by stimulus funds and false narratives.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Clipped the most precious parts.

Truth is, people are more than free to beta test en masse this vaccine, whatever it may be. I won't be among them. And plenty of professionals have misgivings about being the first in line to do this. The smarter ones are preaching FIRST proper vitamin dosing, including (especially) zinc, managing weight, not smoking and generally trying to reduce your body's inflammation as much as possible so that C19 can't take hold as easily.

I think between the mask/vaccine/stay at home orders we're missing a golden opportunity to discuss overall health and personal responsibility. I get we live in an era where activists want to put obese women in swimsuit magazines because "all bodies are beautiful," so there's that mindset to overcome. We face that with the Covie: no one's really discussing everyone's horrible eating habits but we're quick to over-focus on a virus that takes advantage of these issues, more than killing people outright. That's just the facts.

Health professionals have been preaching the benefits of proper nutrition, not smoking, and working out for years to manage (or prevent) a whole host of conditions. How effective do you think that's generally been?

I'm a health professional, and I'll keep recommending those things, but I can tell you for damn sure that's not what's going to stabilize this particular situation. Even if everyone did those things (lol), they're still a long-term fix, not a short term one. We're in a pandemic. Time matters. Any "smart" health professional should know that.

You can look down on them as guinea pigs, or lemmings, or whatever, but those who get the vaccine are the ones who are going to bring this country out of the pandemic. You might also consider that a lot of those people will be at-risk individuals who might not feel like they have much of a choice, or who might not actually have one at all (i.e. some healthcare workers), so your freedom to choose is a luxury that isn't necessarily shared by others.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I fully support individuals having the freedom to make their own choices about their health care, including whether to choose being vaccinated or not.

But the flippant comments about the vaccine sound tone deaf to me, in the face of the incredible accomplishment it is to produce a highly effective vaccine (its much better than our usual annual influenza vaccine numbers) using novel techniques against a virus no one had even seen more than a year ago, and provide it in large enough numbers that a national vaccination program can start next week. It’s a towering accomplishment, the product of contributions from brilliant scientists, high level military logistics, and a public volunteer effort worthy of recognition as well. It belongs in the same scrapbook as the early space program. It’s the type of public cooperative accomplishment that restores one’s faith in the potential of humanity. Despite the lazy narrative that corners were cut, they were not. The vaccine went through the same path of rigorous testing as any other historical vaccine...just done with incredible speed and urgency. I get the impression a jaded Twitterati has little appreciation for the unprecedented nature of this effort. It’s more rewarding to have a hot take.

And I realize there will be some people that might have benefited, who will reject it and suffer serious illness that might have been avoided. I’ve seen examples of this every year of my career, with other illnesses. This year we’ll just add Covid to the list. I won’t attempt to talk anyone into getting vaccinated. But I’ll share my opinion and call out faulty logic or falsehoods when I see them.