OT: Coronavirus VII: No Unrelated Politics Talk

[Tad Mikowsky]

What will happen first?

A vaccine for COVID 19? Or HFBoards working properly?

HFboards will always suck. So Covid 19 vaccine AINEC

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

What will happen first?

A vaccine for COVID 19? Or HFBoards working properly?

Vaccine.

 

[Fatass]

More smokers, more narcissists, more don't give a f*** about anybody but themselves. Quebec of course has been selecting for that for decades. Really my whole lifetime, probably before that.

As others have mentioned rules don't apply to Quebecois. They make their own there. Apparently Covid-19 doesn't abide.

The raw sewage problem was mentioned as well. Covid-19 is viable through feces, I'd wonder about that too and particularly with how hard Montreal is hit.

But nothing exhibits Quebec more than the Old Age home with 33 deaths. After the first death there all the staff walked out, deserted the patients. Deserted helpless seniors that can't look after themselves. They didn't even alert anybody of the families. They ABANDONED the patients. Could you even imagine something like that happening anywhere else in Canada? Sure hope all those staffers aren't getting paid a dime through this. I bet the lot of them have falsely applied for CERB. Wouldn't surprise me.

I guess this is on topic, when we are commenting on the reasons why Quebec is hit so hard. Been to Montreal several times over the last five years. Really noticed a problem with all the concrete overpasses. They were all crumbling, and the fix used was to put nets under them to “catch the falling pieces”. Talked to some people there, and according to them the concrete used to make those overpasses was poorly done in the first place. Those people were saying the companies contracted to make the concrete cheaper out on the mix and binding agents in order to save bucks. Now, even though the overpasses are not that old, they are all crumbling. Maybe there is a lot of corruption and selfishness there?

 

[Bangers]

The world will continue to do business with them for as long as they remain a manufacturing & consumption superpower. 1 billion people can consume a lot of goods, and 1 billion people can produce a lot of goods.

This isn't certain. Due to the US-China trade war and rising costs of production in China, the two economies were already decoupling - multinationals were already moving production to countries like Vietnam.

China's in a bit of a tricky spot. It's no longer cheap enough to be the "world's manufacturer", and while they have a huge domestic market, only a small percentage of that market possesses sufficient purchasing power. It's also facing a massive credit bubble that is going to seriously affect those with purchasing power in the not-too-distant future.

That being said, it's unlikely countries will just stop doing business there. No single country has the capacity to produce what China has, but I do think we're going to see a wave of protectionism once this is all over.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I guess this is on topic, when we are commenting on the reasons why Quebec is hit so hard. Been to Montreal several times over the last five years. Really noticed a problem with all the concrete overpasses. They were all crumbling, and the fix used was to put nets under them to “catch the falling pieces”. Talked to some people there, and according to them the concrete used to make those overpasses was poorly done in the first place. Those people were saying the companies contracted to make the concrete cheaper out on the mix and binding agents in order to save bucks. Now, even though the overpasses are not that old, they are all crumbling. Maybe there is a lot of corruption and selfishness there?

The Construction industry in Quebec is easily the most corrupt in Canada and several times that graft has gone all the way back to political leaders.

This article just skims the surface. Corruption, Teamsters, organized crime, mafia, biker gangs, always a HUGE problem in Quebec. They should teach things like this in School.


Quebec: The most corrupt province - Macleans.ca

Nothing at all works well in Quebec, and so little surprise that the province would fare so poorly in the face of an immutable pandemic.

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

US approaching 600,000 cases and 25,000 deaths.

 

[Fatass]

Swedish coronavirus deaths top 1,000, fuelling criticism over strategy

Why are people saying Sweden is doing a good job again?

Sweden is now where we will all be going. Every government is discussing opening their economies. It looks like the world economy is reaching (has reached?) the tipping point, where the trauma to the economy is going to be worse than the consequences of Covid 19. 750 million more people falling into poverty is (perhaps?) considered the worse of two evils. We, as individuals, get to make choices on our own level. Governments, however, have to consider everyone.
IMO, I don’t think we should open schools though, until the kids can be vaccinated. But that’s just me. Don’t know what governments think on that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Faeroe Islands are an interesting case study of the Pandemic. They have tested more/capita than any other country, smallish population but on limited area. 12% of entire pop has been tested, only 180positive among over 5K tests. Works out to 2.7% of tested have it, that's testing of higher risk individuals and travellers. Confirmed positive tests per whole pop works out to 1/300 residents confirmed to have Covid-19.

Interesting to note that even if you tested all, the rate of infected in general pop would be invariably lower than risk pop, so around 8times more testing(to complete testing on everybody) could maybe bump up the number to 3-6/300 residents having Covid-19. Or simply 1-2% of total population. Also this is a perfect iso study as Covid-19 is resolved there and with 90% of cases recovered and zero deaths.

 

[Fatass]

US approaching 600,000 cases and 25,000 deaths.

Anyone dying is clearly a bad thing. There are those close to the person who suffer with the loss. But if the hospitals are not being overwhelmed, and those sick that need care are getting it, is the pandemic being managed within the realm of responsible government, regardless of the death tolls? IMO governments use modelling to make decisions on the macro level, and each country (region) has different potential to manage. It seems like us in Canada are doing well, but we still have a lot of people dying from Covid 19, who otherwise would still be alive.

 

[McGoMcD]

Sweden is now where we will all be going. Every government is discussing opening their economies. It looks like the world economy is reaching (has reached?) the tipping point, where the trauma to the economy is going to be worse than the consequences of Covid 19. 750 million more people falling into poverty is (perhaps?) considered the worse of two evils. We, as individuals, get to make choices on our own level. Governments, however, have to consider everyone.
IMO, I don’t think we should open schools though, until the kids can be vaccinated. But that’s just me. Don’t know what governments think on that.

This is it. Many are panicked and never want to walk outside again, but at some point, a trade-off has to be reached. The goal was to flatten the curve, we did it. Now we need to go back to work in a smart manner. We know now there are ways to mitigate it, people wearing masks on public transit is huge, just wearing masks in general. Things like windows in front of people at the grocery store etc. We can go back to work in a smart way that continues to flatten the curve.

The huge thing we need to know is how well people developed immunity if they get it. Kids are not affected much. If they can go back to school, get it mildly and develop immunity it would actually be huge. Like sending the first line over the bunker in a war, someone has to go first, the first that should go are those that are the least likely to be affected, the young and the healthy. At this point them getting isn't even a bad thing, it would be a good step in herd immunity, they just need to know how to not infect the vulnerable, which I feel like we have the tools to do, again masks, etc.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

The world will continue to do business with them for as long as they remain a manufacturing & consumption superpower. 1 billion people can consume a lot of goods, and 1 billion people can produce a lot of goods.

Japan Spent over 2 Billion dollars moving their manufacturing out of China. Japan has been China's biggest trading partner up to this point.

Japan to Pay Companies to Move Production Out of China | National Review

The Dominoes were already falling before the outbreak. Many American companies moved their manufacturing to Vietnam. The trade war between America and China cost both countries billions of dollars.

The tin foil hat part of me would start assuming China hid the virus to tank the rest of the worlds economy on purpose. I am not saying the Virus was intentional but more like a happy accident, use it to their benefit.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sweden is now where we will all be going. Every government is discussing opening their economies. It looks like the world economy is reaching (has reached?) the tipping point, where the trauma to the economy is going to be worse than the consequences of Covid 19. 750 million more people falling into poverty is (perhaps?) considered the worse of two evils. We, as individuals, get to make choices on our own level. Governments, however, have to consider everyone.
IMO, I don’t think we should open schools though, until the kids can be vaccinated. But that’s just me. Don’t know what governments think on that.

No value in opening schools and it certainly won't happen here in Alberta. Provincial govt was very clear if they closed, it was for remainder of school year and several staff already laid off for the school year.

Yeah, quite clearly increases around the world are down. New cases in the world are down, Europe clearly over the worst, Covid-19 still hasn't made much headway anywhere south of Tropic of Cancer. Its really just the northern portion of the Northern Hemisphere which has been hard hit by the virus.

Our own choice? Continue to isolate as we can. Quite a few individuals we know are in high risk classifications as we are, and definitely going to do the right thing to continue to isolate and limit spread through population as we have that luxury economically. Not everybody does.

15min testing will open up a lot of camp labor, a lot of industry, and it will be a new normal in place for awhile. I suspect in all school settings we will be seeing testing for students, teachers alike. I could see schools opening a little later as it probably takes a long time to gather up say 500K quick testing kits. Govt probably has to procure something like that amount of these, Industry will procure own probably.

Movies, Theaters, Pro Sports. pretty much hooped until efficient virus comes along. There is no way to test people for those given that tests will in short supply.

 

[Fatass]

This is it. Many are panicked and never want to walk outside again, but at some point, a trade-off has to be reached. The goal was to flatten the curve, we did it. Now we need to go back to work in a smart manner. We know now there are ways to mitigate it, people wearing masks on public transit is huge, just wearing masks in general. Things like windows in front of people at the grocery store etc. We can go back to work in a smart way that continues to flatten the curve.

The huge thing we need to know is how well people developed immunity if they get it. Kids are not affected much. If they can go back to school, get it mildly and develop immunity it would actually be huge. Like sending the first line over the bunker in a war, someone has to go first, the first that should go are those that are the least likely to be affected, the young and the healthy. At this point them getting isn't even a bad thing, it would be a good step in herd immunity, they just need to know how to not infect the vulnerable, which I feel like we have the tools to do, again masks, etc.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/measles-vaccine-coronavirus-1.5531343
117 million children (around the world, and not in rich countries like us) are not going to get the measles vaccine this year. The more things like this our governments learn are happening (because of the global shutdown of economies) the more these governments are accepting they need to get the world working again. My God, if 10% of those kids contract the measles, that’s 11 million of them. And these are children. Without healthy children, we have zero future.

 

[Fatass]

No value in opening schools and it certainly won't happen here in Alberta. Provincial govt was very clear if they closed, it was for remainder of school year and several staff already laid off for the school year.

Yeah, quite clearly increases around the world are down. New cases in the world are down, Europe clearly over the worst, Covid-19 still hasn't made much headway anywhere south of Tropic of Cancer. Its really just the northern portion of the Northern Hemisphere which has been hard hit by the virus.

Our own choice? Continue to isolate as we can. Quite a few individuals we know are in high risk classifications as we are, and definitely going to do the right thing to continue to isolate and limit spread through population as we have that luxury economically. Not everybody does.

15min testing will open up a lot of camp labor, a lot of industry, and it will be a new normal in place for awhile. I suspect in all school settings we will be seeing testing for students, teachers alike. I could see schools opening a little later as it probably takes a long time to gather up say 500K quick testing kits. Govt probably has to procure something like that amount of these, Industry will procure own probably.

Movies, Theaters, Pro Sports. pretty much hooped until efficient virus comes along. There is no way to test people for those given that tests will in short supply.

Considering the high % of children that can carry Covid 19 without showing symptoms (so they will not know to stay home) teachers would be at extreme risk, wouldn’t they? I just don’t see schools opening to kids until there is a vaccine.

 

[McGoMcD]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/measles-vaccine-coronavirus-1.5531343
117 million children (around the world, and not in rich countries like us) are not going to get the measles vaccine this year. The more things like this our governments learn are happening (because of the global shutdown of economies) the more these governments are accepting they need to get the world working again. My God, if 10% of those kids contract the measles, that’s 11 million of them. And these are children. Without healthy children, we have zero future.

Yes, I have been arguing quite a bit, and often people call me cold and heartless. I care more about the stock market than people etc. However, people need to start realizing the negative effects of a global slowdown. The economy is just people, if the economy goes down people's livelihood and ability the thrive goes down. It will have all sorts of negative consequences. We need to stop being so shortsighted and start to see the looming hazard that is around the corner if we don't try and smartly open up our economy again.

 

[Senor Catface]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/measles-vaccine-coronavirus-1.5531343
117 million children (around the world, and not in rich countries like us) are not going to get the measles vaccine this year. The more things like this our governments learn are happening (because of the global shutdown of economies) the more these governments are accepting they need to get the world working again. My God, if 10% of those kids contract the measles, that’s 11 million of them. And these are children. Without healthy children, we have zero future.

Anti-vaxxers right now after reading that.

 

[Fatass]

Anti-vaxxers right now after reading that.

I’ve read stuff on those antivaxer views, and I just do t get it. When we have a Covid 19 vaccine, IMO, it should be mandated to get it, except for medical reasons. These vaccines are to protect people, and not hurt them.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Swedish coronavirus deaths top 1,000, fuelling criticism over strategy

Why are people saying Sweden is doing a good job again?

Which people?

A head doctor at a major hospital in Sweden says the current approach will “probably end in a historical massacre.” He says healthcare workers at his hospital who have tested positive for the virus but are asymptomatic have been advised to continue working. He asked to remain anonymous because “it is frowned upon to speak of the epidemic or to go against the official vision” but said he felt a need to speak out from an “ethical and medical point of view.”

source: Sweden's Relaxed Approach to the Coronavirus Could Be Backfiring

As always hindsight will be 20/20.
Hungary is likely going too far. Bulgaria is likely not doing enough.

 

[LaGu]

Which people?


source: Sweden's Relaxed Approach to the Coronavirus Could Be Backfiring

As always hindsight will be 20/20.
Hungary is likely going too far. Bulgaria is likely not doing enough.

It's a disaster, but for them so far managable in terms of resources in the health services. At least according to them...
Anyhow, that is what they want, a continued slow spread. Flatten the curve but not eradicate it. They have said several times that they don't believe the vaccine will be ready before next year (at the earliest).

Even though I disagree with Swe approach I have intervened a few times because some are taking things way over the top. So maybe he was referring to me ....

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

pcm-dpc/COVID-19

Very good news. Italy has its lowest amount of new cases since March 13th

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

It's a disaster, but for them so far managable in terms of resources in the health services. At least according to them...
Anyhow, that is what they want, a continued slow spread. Flatten the curve but not eradicate it. They have said several times that they don't believe the vaccine will be ready before next year (at the earliest).

Even though I disagree with Swe approach I have intervened a few times because some are taking things way over the top. So maybe he was referring to me ....

Nah you’re good. Just the people saying that Sweden’s approach has been so successful, but they have the most deaths of the Nordic countries.

 

[oobga]

This is it. Many are panicked and never want to walk outside again, but at some point, a trade-off has to be reached. The goal was to flatten the curve, we did it. Now we need to go back to work in a smart manner. We know now there are ways to mitigate it, people wearing masks on public transit is huge, just wearing masks in general. Things like windows in front of people at the grocery store etc. We can go back to work in a smart way that continues to flatten the curve.

The huge thing we need to know is how well people developed immunity if they get it. Kids are not affected much. If they can go back to school, get it mildly and develop immunity it would actually be huge. Like sending the first line over the bunker in a war, someone has to go first, the first that should go are those that are the least likely to be affected, the young and the healthy. At this point them getting isn't even a bad thing, it would be a good step in herd immunity, they just need to know how to not infect the vulnerable, which I feel like we have the tools to do, again masks, etc.

The kid stuff would be very hard to manage. Even without symptoms these kids can spread, likely for days of time. Are we testing these kids over and over to see if they got it and when they are not longer able to spread it? Gotta do test sweeps across schools over and over until every kid is checked off as immune? Who is taking care of these kids while they are able to spread it? Are they interacting with other kids outside school? Going to playgrounds, getting their hands all over stuff at stores, etc...

Would be a fun time with governments and parents/guardians trying to manage a country full of kiddos that we're letting a virus spread among where the vast majority will be spreading without any symptoms.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Coronavirus coverup is ‘China’s Chernobyl moment,’ warn 100 politicians, experts

Not surprised to see that no politician in Canada had the stones to sign the letter. Not that a letter is going to do jack shit but hopefully there is enough global pressure once this is over that China provides solid concrete evidence of a coverup and people and their system there are held to account and reformations are made.

Chernobyl was a defining moment in the failures of Soviet communism. Hopefully this will be an defining moment in the failures of Chinese communism.

Iran’s insane corrupt religious government is also in for a reckoning with their people after lying about the shooting down of the Ukrainian airliner and then lying to their people about the severity of the virus. Their numbers are also not even close to what they are reporting.

 

[Oilhawks]

Canada is back to selling arms to Saudi Arabia. Western countries have no problems dealing with nations that are human rights abusers as long as it can translate into some dollars and jobs.

Canada lifts suspension of arms exports to Saudi Arabia

If a nation that is supposedly as progressive as Canada (yeah right), in the midst of the pandemic, STILL cannot resist making money by dealing with horrific nations like Saudi Arabia, how can we believe that anything will change post COVID-19?

"When it is a question of money, everybody is of the same religion."
- Voltaire