OT: Coronavirus V: The Dustbin of History

[The Stranger]

A) 16 patients. We’re calling this a study?

B) the study draws no conclusions, just notes that in some of their….16……patients there’s elevated spike protein. The study says that may show insight into cases of myocarditis, but that’s all it says. I looked at the study quickly but haven’t watched more than five minutes of this guy. I will listen to the whole thing later, I’m at work right now running around.

C) He starts out by saying this isn’t about anti vaccine or who’s on what side right after he says that we now have to include the vaccine in our differential diagnosis in cardiac arrests?!? Suuuuuuuure. I will give this it’s fair due but he started out with an anti vax statement which knocks the validity down pretty dramatically from the get go.

D) If Hamlin had CC that’s not myocarditis anyways, and doesn’t pertain to his case. Though you may have linked this show because this guy brings the two issues together somehow during the show. I’ll wait till I listen to say more. It should be obvious with some light reading that CC is a one time traumatic event that leads to V fib and potential cardiac arrest, and generally has nothing to do with inflammation of the heart which is myocarditis. So until someone comes out and says Hamlin was walking around playing NFL football with an inflamed heart I’m not seeing it yet. I apologize for not hearing the whole thing as I’m at work, I just wanted to reply and tell you I’m acknowledging what you wrote.

For anyone interested in reading the study discussed at the beginning of the video, it can be found here. There were 61 participants. 16 of the 61 had been diagnosed with vaccine-associated myocarditis. If you go to the "Discussion", they say that participants with myocarditis uniquely had elevated levels of free spike protein in their blood.

Citing/discussing a documented negative side effect of one vaccine should not get someone labeled "antivax". If something he said is wrong or inaccurate, just provide a counterpoint.

Later in the video, he says that risk of CC increases with underlying inflammation of the heart. I didn't hear any citation on this assertion.

To be clear, I don't have a strong opinion on this subject. However, I was curious to learn more and found this video...thought it was worth sharing as an alternative theory. As opposed to CC with no other factors...or he dropped because he took the vaccine and no other reason...maybe he had an underlying condition (inflamed heart) which facilitated the CC event.

 

[tarheelhockey]

For anyone interested in reading the study discussed at the beginning of the video, it can be found here. There were 61 participants. 16 of the 61 had been diagnosed with vaccine-associated myocarditis. If you go to the "Discussion", they say that participants with myocarditis uniquely had elevated levels of free spike protein in their blood.

Citing/discussing a documented negative side effect of one vaccine should not get someone labeled "antivax". If something he said is wrong or inaccurate, just provide a counterpoint.

Later in the video, he says that risk of CC increases with underlying inflammation of the heart. I didn't hear any citation on this assertion.

To be clear, I don't have a strong opinion on this subject. However, I was curious to learn more and found this video...thought it was worth sharing as an alternative theory. As opposed to CC with no other factors...or he dropped because he took the vaccine and no other reason...maybe he had an underlying condition (inflamed heart) which facilitated the CC event.

Part of the issue here is that we're focusing on a single incident and speculating about potential factors involved in it. By nature, that lends itself to a bunch of speculative conclusions based on a single incident. That kind of discussion has no scientific value at all, even if it's internally coherent.

If there's a genuine connection between vaccines and CC, that will show up in the numbers and quickly. Nearly 70% of the global population has now received at least one COVID vaccine. If there is even the faintest imaginable correlation between that and CC, then we will start seeing a measurable increase in CC. It's as simple as watching those numbers. If no increase becomes apparent, then there's your conclusion.

(yes, I realize that there could be confounding factors but if no change is noted in a sample size measured in billions, there's no sense pursuing the topic)

 

[bleedgreen]

Alright, I listened to the whole thing. There’s nothing in there to suggest the vaccine had anything to do with this. At all. The way he described the study they don’t even know for sure the myocarditis in the 16 pts is for sure from the vaccine. Only that the spike protein is there. They THINK it may cause irritation to the heart in kids, and that kids should be careful after the vaccine due to this. That’s what the study says. The doc here is extrapolating quite a bit from there, none of it is anything an argument should be based on in terms of CC and Hamlin. At the end of the day the only thing that heads in Hamlin’s direction is that CC is more frequent in kids (despite the Doc admitting people in their 40’s have had it) and it’s rare. And it’s more often from a smaller object than a helmet. Pronger is presumed to have had it (with no medical or political objections with that diagnosis….) so you can’t possibly say that Hamlin couldn’t have had it as a healthy younger adult. We’ll actually maybe never know as it’s more of a presumed diagnosis of exclusion. Does he have a heart issue they missed? Could he have been in a arrhythmia already and then after the play stopped compensating?

If there is no sign of myocarditis then there’s zero reason to think of the vaccine. Ironically his heart could be swollen and irritated from humans presumably cracking ribs and manually pumping on it, and from all the issues created by cardiac arrest.

Side note, infection also causes myocarditis. Like COVID. The kids the study wants to say had post vaccine myocarditis possibly from the vaccine could’ve also gotten it from COVID or other infections. Actually not that rare.

It’s going to take 10 years….20….to even know and understand the effects of COVID itself. Why people in their 20’s were dying of PE’s (pre vaccine), the general coagulation issues people suffered from and many died of. Using a study he says wasn’t peer reviewed based on 16 pts from one year, two years ago and spring boarding it into possible vaccine induced CC with Hamlin is nonsensical and irresponsible. Even if he says “now I’m not specifically talking about Hamlin, because that would be wrong but…”.

 

[Negan4Coach]

IDK what the f*** is going anymore - but I got three shots of Pfizer, and I will not be getting any more, ever. Nor will my family. They better pray the long term health effects thing isn't true, is all I can say.

But I'm also not going to go around like some people I know negging on myself expecting a heart attack or taking all kinds of nonsense to try to "purge" my blood of the vaccine. It was a calculated risk to take it at the time- but the threat is no longer worth what appears to be a greater than originally thought risk of getting an experimental vax. I'm out.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Part of the issue here is that we're focusing on a single incident and speculating about potential factors involved in it. By nature, that lends itself to a bunch of speculative conclusions based on a single incident. That kind of discussion has no scientific value at all, even if it's internally coherent.

If there's a genuine connection between vaccines and CC, that will show up in the numbers and quickly. Nearly 70% of the global population has now received at least one COVID vaccine. If there is even the faintest imaginable correlation between that and CC, then we will start seeing a measurable increase in CC. It's as simple as watching those numbers. If no increase becomes apparent, then there's your conclusion.

(yes, I realize that there could be confounding factors but if no change is noted in a sample size measured in billions, there's no sense pursuing the topic)

IDK what the f*** is going anymore - but I got three shots of Pfizer, and I will not be getting any more, ever. Nor will my family. They better pray the long term health effects thing isn't true, is all I can say.

But I'm also not going to go around like some people I know negging on myself expecting a heart attack or taking all kinds of nonsense to try to "purge" my blood of the vaccine. It was a calculated risk to take it at the time- but the threat is no longer worth what appears to be a greater than originally thought risk of getting an experimental vax. I'm out.

I am very thankful that I chose the J&J shot (mild heart issue already)… and that we as parents decided for our kids not to get any shots at all.

 

[Negan4Coach]

I am very thankful that I chose the J&J shot (mild heart issue already)… and that we as parents decided for our kids not to get any shots at all.

Yeah but don't you remember in the begining- the J+J was the shot with the reputation for myocarditis. In fact they paused the rollout at one point.

That reminds me of the whole "vanity vax" fad where people flexed on others because they managed to get the Pfizer instead of the other ones? LOL.

Read this article. Wow. How Pfizer Became the Status Vax

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

This was the most widely distributed rollout of any medicine ever- and the most scrutinized.

If there were something major there I'd think we'd be beyond JAQ'ing off about randos who died of heart attacks.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Yeah but don't you remember in the begining- the J+J was the shot with the reputation for myocarditis. In fact they paused the rollout at one point.

That reminds me of the whole "vanity vax" fad where people flexed on others because they managed to get the Pfizer instead of the other ones? LOL.

Read this article. Wow. How Pfizer Became the Status Vax

I thought it was for blood clots?

Anyways … my overall thought process for me was, this shit seems way too new, I’ll go with the tried and true vaccine type.

 

[The Stranger]

It's well established that a side-effect of the mRNA shots is myocarditis and pericarditis.

Is speculating CC with pre-existing condition "nonsensical and irresponsible", but speculating CC by itself is not? Seems a bit over-sensitive.

If I wanted to argue against the CC with pre-existing condition theory, I would just ask "what evidence is there that myocarditis increases risk for CC?".

Has there ever been a case of CC in the NFL or college football in the history of the sport going back 100 years? I have looked but found no report of it.

I bring this up, not to cite this as evidence for a certain pre-existing condition...but instead to point out what a freak occurrence it is...right up there with two teenagers, in the same high school, and the same time period both suffering cardiac arrest.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This was the most widely distributed rollout of any medicine ever- and the most scrutinized.

If there were something major there I'd think we'd be beyond JAQ'ing off about randos who died of heart attacks.

Thing is, this line of thinking can be perpetuated forever. A statistical pattern would almost certainly be blatantly evident by now, but we’re never going to hear the end of “one study suggested that maybe going forward we might see…”

It can never be shut down and people who are committed to it will still be saying this stuff in 2055.

 

[Negan4Coach]

I thought it was for blood clots?

Anyways … my overall thought process for me was, this shit seems way too new, I’ll go with the tried and true vaccine type.

That's right, blood clots. But now they are saying all of them are responsible for blood clots in addition to myocarditis (not sure which is worse, lol) and its not just conspiracy nuts anymore. Wall Street Journal, etc.

Anyway what's done is done. I dodged the Anthrax vax for as long as I could but took it anyway and was fine.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Has there ever been a case of CC in the NFL or college football in the history of the sport going back 100 years? I have looked but found no report of it.

I bring this up, not to cite this as evidence for a certain pre-existing condition...but instead to point out what a freak occurrence it is...right up there with two teenagers, in the same high school, and the same time period both suffering cardiac arrest.

CC was only discovered in 1932. According to this paper there were only 190 documented cases in the USA during the prior 77 years (as of 2009). Athletes under 18 are at the highest risk, and fast-moving projectiles like balls and pucks are the most common cause. Baseball (presumably youth baseball, given the age factor) is the most common context.

Given all of the above in combination, the odds of this ever happening in the NFL or CFB are exceedingly low. The fact that it happened even once is a fluke occurrence.

This goes back to, if there were even the most tenuous and statistically negligible link to vaccines, given the billions of people taking vaccines and the millions of people playing sports, the number of CC cases would be exploding in comparison to the historical record. That has not happened. People are taking one incident and speculating about a connection to a completely unrelated argument that they’re still not done with after 3 years.

 

[MinJaBen]

It's well established that a side-effect of the mRNA shots is myocarditis and pericarditis.

Is speculating CC with pre-existing condition "nonsensical and irresponsible", but speculating CC by itself is not? Seems a bit over-sensitive.

If I wanted to argue against the CC with pre-existing condition theory, I would just ask "what evidence is there that myocarditis increases risk for CC?".

Has there ever been a case of CC in the NFL or college football in the history of the sport going back 100 years? I have looked but found no report of it.

I bring this up, not to cite this as evidence for a certain pre-existing condition...but instead to point out what a freak occurrence it is...right up there with two teenagers, in the same high school, and the same time period both suffering cardiac arrest.

It is well established that a POTENTIAL side-effect....

Your omission of the word potential totally changes the meaning of the sentence you typed. The OVERWHELMING majority of people suffer no incidence of myocarditis/pericarditis as a result of any vaccination. And the risk of those side-effects are dwarfed by the POTENTIAL risk of infection and POTENTIAL complications that arise from COVID infections.

 

[The Stranger]

It is well established that a POTENTIAL side-effect....

Your omission of the word potential totally changes the meaning of the sentence you typed. The OVERWHELMING majority of people suffer no incidence of myocarditis/pericarditis as a result of any vaccination. And the risk of those side-effects are dwarfed by the POTENTIAL risk of infection and POTENTIAL complications that arise from COVID infections.

It's not an omission. It's perfectly acceptable to just say "side effect" or "adverse reaction".

When you see a commercial for a pharma product with a middle-aged woman walking in a picturesque setting with a faint smile on her face staring into the distance and they rattle off "common side effects" and "severe side effects", they don't explicitly need to preface those sections with "possible" because people by and large understand the concept.

What is the mechanism of action that causes the heart inflammation and why is it some people get myocarditis some don't?

What's higher risk for heart damage/inflammation:
1) Contracting covid naturally w/o taking a shot.
2) Taking one, two, three, or four shots.
3) Contracting covid and also are getting mRNA injections ad infinitum.

 

[bleedgreen]

It's well established that a side-effect of the mRNA shots is myocarditis and pericarditis.

Is speculating CC with pre-existing condition "nonsensical and irresponsible", but speculating CC by itself is not? Seems a bit over-sensitive.

If I wanted to argue against the CC with pre-existing condition theory, I would just ask "what evidence is there that myocarditis increases risk for CC?".

Has there ever been a case of CC in the NFL or college football in the history of the sport going back 100 years? I have looked but found no report of it.

I bring this up, not to cite this as evidence for a certain pre-existing condition...but instead to point out what a freak occurrence it is...right up there with two teenagers, in the same high school, and the same time period both suffering cardiac arrest.

He took a blow to the chest and immediately suffered cardiac arrest while presenting exactly the way CC does. Many Doc’s as well as most people who know about it feel comfortable saying it’s at the very least on the table as the most likely cause. Of course that’s speculative, but with logic and education behind it. Saying CC is not only more frequent because of Myocarditis, but that there’s reason to think it played a role in Hamlins case due to possible vaccination is absolutely irresponsible. He has no known history of myocarditis, none has come out since. Common sense tells us CC isn’t a “size” issue, it’s a timing one. Your heart can be enlarged, the trauma has to hit at just the right fraction of a millisecond. having a prolonged QT segment may make you more prone hypothetically, but thats not myocarditis. Usually that’s medication induced but it’s possible for it to be just what your heart does. Also if he’s suffering from Myocarditis its impressive he’s able to perform at peak level in the NFL.

Even in the study and the conversation you linked, the myocarditis being referred to is temporary. As in for kids, they should take it easy for a few weeks post vaccination so they can clear that. It’s possible many of us have had it when ill during our lifetimes, it just wasn’t symptomatic. So yes linking all these together and passing it on to the general public who assume if a doc says something like this it’s true is irresponsible.

No surprise that someone like me that has trouble with fancy stats struggles with medical stats in certain areas. When a younger healthy person dies suddenly of likely cardiac issues while exercising did they perform an autopsy in 1935? In the NCAA or high school, anywhere really? Was there anything to see if they did? If someone didnt have a structural issue how can you tell? Does Wyoming report their findings? Do they do the same procedures post mordem that Delaware does? In 1978? Not finding confirmed cases in the history book is a poor example of proof it didn’t happen. Im sure it happened far more often than we realize, like many illnesses we didn’t understand earlier in our history. Athletes have died of sudden cardiac events over the years, it’s not unusual to not know the real reason and just call it “cardiac arrest”. I know you said specifically NFL and NCAA but I just don’t view that as proof of anything.

The conversation keeps getting framed as not anti vax when the heart of it clearly is.

Hamlin’s collapse spurs new wave of vaccine misinformation

Even before Hamlin was carried off the field in Cincinnati, posts amassing thousands of shares and millions of views began circulating online claiming without evidence that complications from Covid-19 vaccines caused his health emergency.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[tarheelhockey]

Saying CC is not only more frequent because of Myocarditis, but that there’s reason to think it played a role in Hamlins case due to possible vaccination is absolutely irresponsible.

Co-signed. This is “I’m not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night” territory.

 

[The Stranger]

Co-signed. This is “I’m not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night” territory.

The video I posted on the topic suggesting the possibility of a pre-existing condition of myocarditis from covid exposure or shot was from a medical doctor.

As you were.

 

[The Stranger]

He took a blow to the chest and immediately suffered cardiac arrest while presenting exactly the way CC does. Many Doc’s as well as most people who know about it feel comfortable saying it’s at the very least on the table as the most likely cause. Of course that’s speculative, but with logic and education behind it. Saying CC is not only more frequent because of Myocarditis, but that there’s reason to think it played a role in Hamlins case due to possible vaccination is absolutely irresponsible. He has no known history of myocarditis, none has come out since. Common sense tells us CC isn’t a “size” issue, it’s a timing one. Your heart can be enlarged, the trauma has to hit at just the right fraction of a millisecond. having a prolonged QT segment may make you more prone hypothetically, but thats not myocarditis. Usually that’s medication induced but it’s possible for it to be just what your heart does. Also if he’s suffering from Myocarditis its impressive he’s able to perform at peak level in the NFL.

Even in the study and the conversation you linked, the myocarditis being referred to is temporary. As in for kids, they should take it easy for a few weeks post vaccination so they can clear that. It’s possible many of us have had it when ill during our lifetimes, it just wasn’t symptomatic. So yes linking all these together and passing it on to the general public who assume if a doc says something like this it’s true is irresponsible.

No surprise that someone like me that has trouble with fancy stats struggles with medical stats in certain areas. When a younger healthy person dies suddenly of likely cardiac issues while exercising did they perform an autopsy in 1935? In the NCAA or high school, anywhere really? Was there anything to see if they did? If someone didnt have a structural issue how can you tell? Does Wyoming report their findings? Do they do the same procedures post mordem that Delaware does? In 1978? Not finding confirmed cases in the history book is a poor example of proof it didn’t happen. Im sure it happened far more often than we realize, like many illnesses we didn’t understand earlier in our history. Athletes have died of sudden cardiac events over the years, it’s not unusual to not know the real reason and just call it “cardiac arrest”. I know you said specifically NFL and NCAA but I just don’t view that as proof of anything.

The conversation keeps getting framed as not anti vax when the heart of it clearly is.

Hamlin’s collapse spurs new wave of vaccine misinformation

Even before Hamlin was carried off the field in Cincinnati, posts amassing thousands of shares and millions of views began circulating online claiming without evidence that complications from Covid-19 vaccines caused his health emergency.

www.nbcnews.com

I've got a few things to comment/add on the topic.

1) Nice article in the paper on this I saw yesterday. Here should be a free link. The NFLPA's chief medical director is interviewed and says preliminary testing on Hamlin showed no sign of myocarditis.

2) I've read other articles with cardiologists speculating on possible causes including an injury to the heart or artery from the impact as well as pre-existing heart condition. These ideas seem pretty straight forward and logical. So the concept of a pre-existing condition is straight forward, but a certain possible condition from a certain cause gets some up in arms.

3) You say "Common sense tells us CC isn’t a “size” issue, it’s a timing one." What I've read is that it's both...time for sure, but size as well which is why it's prevalent in adolescents.

4) Being that this is the Covid thread, and we're discussing how a prior covid exposure and/or shot may have contributed the Hamlin cardiac arrest (as irresponsible as it may be), here is a study on clinical myocarditis from the shot. For Hamlin's age, they found around 50 cases per one million injections seven days after the injection. Pretty small number...what that means for actual number of people who got myocarditis (clinical and sub-clinical), IDK.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The video I posted on the topic suggesting the possibility of a pre-existing condition of myocarditis from covid exposure or shot was from a medical doctor.

As you were.

And in the context of the claims being made here, a doctor suggesting a possibility on a video means zero. He is not making claims from a research standpoint (he isn’t a researcher) but from a speculative standpoint. Putting out videos connecting Hamlin’s heart attack to his vaccination under the heading of “medical education” is wildly irresponsible as noted upthread.

Looking at his YouTube channel, it’s also noteworthy that every video this guy posts about vaccines promotes a negative conclusion about them, or an alternative to them. On his Twitter feed, he just retweeted Dr Eli David who is a prominent political agitator and anti-vax personality. All signs point to this individual being a conscious anti-vaxxer, way beyond the content of this particular video.

3) You say "Common sense tells us CC isn’t a “size” issue, it’s a timing one." What I've read is that it's both...time for sure, but size as well which is why it's prevalent in adolescents.

I think he meant the size of the heart (swelling and inflammation) rather than the size of the human.

 

[The Stranger]

And in the context of the claims being made here, a doctor suggesting a possibility on a video means zero. He is not making claims from a research standpoint (he isn’t a researcher) but from a speculative standpoint. Putting out videos connecting Hamlin’s heart attack to his vaccination under the heading of “medical education” is wildly irresponsible as noted upthread.

Looking at his YouTube channel, it’s also noteworthy that every video this guy posts about vaccines promotes a negative conclusion about them, or an alternative to them. On his Twitter feed, he just retweeted Dr Eli David who is a prominent political agitator and anti-vax personality. All signs point to this individual being a conscious anti-vaxxer, way beyond the content of this particular video.



I think he meant the size of the heart (swelling and inflammation) rather than the size of the human.

The {I’m not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night>He's a doctor>The fact that he's a doctor means zero} exchange speaks for itself.

On the topic of size, it's a mechanical event...impact on chest with energy transfer to heart. Think force, stiffness, and displacement. If you buy into the notion that CC is prevalent in young because their chest is more compliant (less stiff and with less padding) and therefore displaces more for a given impact, and if you buy into the notion that softer (less stiff) balls and pucks reduce risk of CC, then you should also see why an enlarged heart increases risk of CC as it reduces physical gap between chest wall and heart.

 

[bleedgreen]

The {I’m not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night>He's a doctor>The fact that he's a doctor means zero} exchange speaks for itself.

On the topic of size, it's a mechanical event...impact on chest with energy transfer to heart. Think force, stiffness, and displacement. If you buy into the notion that CC is prevalent in young because their chest is more compliant (less stiff and with less padding) and therefore displaces more for a given impact, and if you buy into the notion that softer (less stiff) balls and pucks reduce risk of CC, then you should also see why an enlarged heart increases risk of CC as it reduces physical gap between chest wall and heart.

I’m still waiting for you to talk about R on T.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The {I’m not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night>He's a doctor>The fact that he's a doctor means zero} exchange speaks for itself.

The "I will pick the one doctor who shares my theory and ignore the very very many doctors who don't" exchange also speaks for itself, and much more loudly.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The {I’m not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night>He's a doctor>The fact that he's a doctor means zero} exchange speaks for itself.

I think you've missed the point of the analogy. The Holiday Inn Express commercials famously highlighted individuals who inserted themselves into situations they weren't qualified to handle. The "doctor" reference was simply a quotable part of the dialogue from a commercial, not a reference to actual doctors in this specific situation.

But to the point -- having an M.D. does not necessarily make a person qualified to speak publicly on any and all medical issues. The individual who made this video is a social media influencer and CEO of a medical education LLC. He is not a practicing doctor, he is not in any way involved in medical research, he's not an expert in public policy, he's not an evident specialist in CC. What makes him qualified to throw his personal speculation into the public forum? Apparently, his qualification is the fact that his videos draw attention to his "personal brand" which feeds customers to his company.

If you want a more direct comparison, this is like when some astronaut gets quoted saying that there are aliens walking around among us. If you give it a few seconds of thought, it's pretty obvious that astronauts are not categorically qualified to make that kind of claim, even if those comments get amplified every single time.

On the topic of size, it's a mechanical event...impact on chest with energy transfer to heart. Think force, stiffness, and displacement. If you buy into the notion that CC is prevalent in young because their chest is more compliant (less stiff and with less padding) and therefore displaces more for a given impact, and if you buy into the notion that softer (less stiff) balls and pucks reduce risk of CC, then you should also see why an enlarged heart increases risk of CC as it reduces physical gap between chest wall and heart.

I can guy buy there is a non-zero increase in risk. But if energy transfer is the key factor, then heart enlargement seems like it would be a somewhat negligible factor. The great majority of the impact is still being absorbed and displaced by the ribcage, and the heart is still surrounded by protective tissues and fluids even when enlarged. The size of the heart seems much less relevant than e.g. the degree of energy transfer produced by the projectile, or the degree of protection offered by the surrounding body.

Certainly that's what the data suggests -- again, with many millions of people infected by COVID over the past three years, we would be seeing a notable increase of CC if it were directly associated with myocarditis. We would see a shift in the proportion of adolescent victims versus adults. Best of my knowledge those patterns are not happening. The reasonable conclusion is that if there is any link at all between CC and myocarditis, it's negligible.

 

[Negan4Coach]

I'm just glad we can actually debate the merits of the vaccine like civilized people without being silenced, like a couple years ago.

Everything is a calculated risk. During the initial Covid wave and the Delta variant- I surmised that the taking of an experimental vaccine was worth the risk of vaccine injury compared to the threat. With the Omicron variant- I no longer feel that risk is acceptable.

I'd like to bring up Anthrax again. For a long time- from 2003 until 2010 under federal court order we were allowed to opt out of the vaccine in the military. And IIRC it was a 6 shot regimen over a couple years. Everybody talked about the f***ed up side effects and were wigged out over it. I dodged it the 3 times I was deployed before 2010, when on #4 they told me now it was compulsory. I took the 1st one and was fine. Others though? It was scuttlebutt but I can't deny the reality of people I knew who had horror stories. And that was a fully approved and tested vaccine.

 

[LakeLivin]

One really shouldn't put too much faith in the fact that this guy is an MD when it comes to his interpretation of the study he's quoting. I'm a biostatistician (or was, once upon a time, lol) and I worked with MDs on teams that submitted new drug applications to the FDA for approval. While MDs are certainly much better than the average person when it comes to interpreting data, they're far from perfect. There's a reason that statisticians are needed on those teams; there were multiple occasions where we had to correct a doc when it came to interpretation. And I suspect that the more a person is invested in a position, the greater the chance that (s)he will make an invalid inference, intentional or not.

It's pretty clear that this guy has a position he's pushing. One thing that jumped out at me before I even started the video is that he's raising money off of it. He has links to 3 sites to donate money to him, as well as selling $67 subscriptions to something. That doesn't in and of itself invalidate his analyses but it does raise flags. And after I heard his invalid inferences I became even more suspicious of his motives. I'd love to know how much money the guy made off of donations and subscriptions following the video.

Bleed previously pointed out indicators of an anti-vax stance in his other online stuff. Not only does he draw invalid inferences in the video, it's markedly notable for what it leaves out. Here's some of my observations:

The study that he references does indicate that there may be a link between the mRNA vaccines and myocarditis. What he doesn't mention is that the rate is extremely low, it's mostly in males younger than 20yo, and that not only were the observed cases transient, they were also milder than cases resulting from other pathologies. All of which would make myocarditis being a contributing factor in the Hamlin case less likely.

He presents absolutely no evidence that Hamlin's incident was related to covid vaccinations but based purely on speculation he infers that it was. Given the amount of disinformation and misinformation surrounding covid and the vaccines, I think Bleed was being generous when he categorized this as irresponsible.

Unless I missed it, Syed never once mentioned this direct quote from the paper he used to imply Hamlin's incident might have been associated with covid vaccination:
"These results do not alter the risk-benefit ratio favoring vaccination against COVID-19 to prevent severe clinical outcomes."

That's a very important conclusion and to me pretty damning evidence that Syed is pushing a narrative. You just don't overlook something like that.

Even before the vaccines started being administered there was evidence of negative effects on the cardiovascular system resulting from covid. No mention of this in the video, in spite of the likelihood that these seem to be much more prevalent and probably more severe than the myocardiopathy linked to covid vaccines. Here's some excerpts from a study on the effect of covid on the cardiovascular system of kids.
_________________________________________

Intriguing new faces of Covid-19: persisting clinical symptoms and cardiac effects in children | Cardiology in the Young | Cambridge Core

Intriguing new faces of Covid-19: persisting clinical symptoms and cardiac effects in children - Volume 32 Issue 7

www.cambridge.org

In this study, 121 children between the ages of 0– and 18 with Covid-19 were evaluated based on their history, blood pressure values, and electrocardiography and echocardiography results. These findings were compared with the findings of the control group which consisted of 95 healthy cases who were in the same age range as the study group and did not have Covid-19.
. . .
Statistically significant differences were found in systolic blood pressure, left ventricular ejection fraction, relative wall thickness, and tricuspid annular plane systolic excursion.
. . .
The clinical symptoms (chest and back pain, dizziness, headache, palpitation, fatigue, shortness of breath, loss of balance, coughing) of 37.2% of the cases persisted for at least 1 month after Covid-19 recovery. Statistically significant differences were found in systolic blood pressure, left ventricular ejection fraction, relative wall thickness, and tricuspid annular plane systolic excursion.
__________________________________________


__________________________________________
Another large study in adults (mostly older males): The COVID Heart—One Year After SARS-CoV-2 Infection, Patients Have an Array of Increased Cardiovascular Risks | Cardiology | JAMA | JAMA Network

The COVID Heart—One Year After SARS-CoV-2 Infection, Patients Have an Array of Increased Cardiovascular Risks

This Medical News article discusses increased risks for cardiovascular disease outcomes 1 year after SARS-CoV-2 infection.

jamanetwork.com

The new analysis in Nature Medicine examined a comprehensive, prespecified set of cardiovascular outcomes among patients in the US Veterans Health Administration (VHA) system who survived the first 30 days of COVID-19. The researchers estimated the risks and excess burden of cardiovascular outcomes per 1000 persons 12 months after COVID-19 using electronic medical record data from 3 large cohorts:

• 153 760 patients who used VHA services in 2019 and had a positive SARS-CoV-2 test result between March 1, 2020, and January 15, 2021
• 5 637 647 patients with no evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection who used VHA services in 2019—the contemporary control group
• 5 859 411 prepandemic patients who used VHA services in 2017—the historical control group

. . .
At the 12-month mark, compared with the contemporary control group, for every 1000 people, COVID-19 was associated with an extra:

• 45.29 incidents of any prespecified cardiovascular outcome
• 23.48 incidents of major adverse cardiovascular events (MACEs), including myocardial infarction, stroke, and all-cause mortality
• 19.86 incidents of dysrhythmias, including 10.74 incidents of atrial fibrillation
• 12.72 incidents of other cardiovascular disorders including 11.61 incidents of heart failure and 3.56 incidents of nonischemic cardiomyopathy
• 9.88 incidents of thromboembolic disorders, including 5.47 incidents of pulmonary embolism and 4.18 incidents of deep vein thrombosis
• 7.28 incidents of ischemic heart disease including 5.35 incidents of acute coronary disease, 2.91 incidents of myocardial infarction, and 2.5 incidents of angina
• 5.48 incidents of cerebrovascular disorders, including 4.03 incidents of stroke
• 1.23 incidents of inflammatory disease of the heart or pericardium, including 0.98 incidents of pericarditis and 0.31 incidents of myocarditis

Because some COVID-19 vaccines may be associated with rare cases of myocarditis and pericarditis, the authors conducted analyses to remove the effect of vaccination. The increased risk of myocarditis and pericarditis remained among people who were not vaccinated and was evident regardless of vaccination status.
. . .
“In our work, we show serious long-term cardiovascular disease consequences of COVID-19,” Al-Aly wrote. “Most of these are lifelong conditions that will affect people for a lifetime and may impact their quality of life and other health outcomes. The risks reported in our paper may appear small but given the large number of people with COVID-19 in the US and globally, these numbers will likely translate into millions of people with heart disease in the US and many more around the world. "
____________________________________________

____________________________________________

From another study on potential covid vaccine related myocarditis. This is relevant with respect to evaluating the relative risk - benefit ratio of contracting covid vs negative effects associated with nRNA vaccines.

Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based COVID-19 Vaccination in the US From December 2020 to August 2021

This descriptive study compares the effect of mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccination with BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vs mRNA-1273 (Moderna) on the reported cases of myocarditis in the US after each vaccination dose.

jamanetwork.com

Cases of myocarditis reported after COVID-19 vaccination were typically diagnosed within days of vaccination, whereas cases of typical viral myocarditis can often have indolent courses with symptoms sometimes present for weeks to months after a trigger if the cause is ever identified.1 The major presenting symptoms appeared to resolve faster in cases of myocarditis after COVID-19 vaccination than in typical viral cases of myocarditis. Even though almost all individuals with cases of myocarditis were hospitalized and clinically monitored, they typically experienced symptomatic recovery after receiving only pain management. In contrast, typical viral cases of myocarditis can have a more variable clinical course. For example, up to 6% of typical viral myocarditis cases in adolescents require a heart transplant or result in mortality.27
_______________________________________________



TLDR
In spite of Syed's attemt to link Hamlin's incident with covid vaccination, he presents no evidence that supports that conclusion. Yet based on the comments after the video, anti-vaxers are jumping on it to support their position like red meat throw to a pack of wolves. Syed is undoubtedly making money off the video, but I'll refrain from making a judgement as to whether that might have influenced what is obviously a narrative he wants to push.

Although small, there probably is an increased risk of myocarditis in a cohort mostly comprised of young males. In the very small percentage of kids who experienced it, it appeared to be transient and milder than the myocarditis resulting from other causes. Even in that cohort, there appears to be a greater risk of severe health complications resulting from contracting covid than from receiving covid vaccinations. If I had a young son he'd be getting the J&J vaccine rather than an mRNA one and I'd be monitoring him very closely for a bit after the vaccination. And to be safe, probably no sports for a couple weeks after the vaccination.

There have been billions of covid vaccinations administered. The risk of severe health complications resulting from contracting covid is almost assuredly much greater than the risk of severe health complications resulting from any of the vaccines. Unfortunately, many seem to have either completely foregone making that relative risk ratio calculation or are basing it on misinformation.

Here's an analogy to illustrate the above point: Seat belts can lead to death if they become frozen and you can't get them unbuckled if your car submerges or is in an accident and catches fire. If for whatever reason you want to be absolutely sure that never happens to you, you can guarantee that it won't by never wearing a seat belt. But I think most recognize that would be a misguided decision based on the overall risk assessment. I wish covid hadn't become so politicized that many are avoiding a similar calculation when it comes to assessing its risk.