will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
- 52,360
- 75,456
Have you seen the video clips? You overestimate people's intelligence and common sense.
OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part VII - READ THE OP
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I see we're still going with the "20% is herd immunity" theory even though that's objectively not how it works.
In some Asian countries, they've handled it so well that they never even had an outbreak. Are they somehow past some herd immunity threshold too? Or is this about behavior and we just don't want to admit Americans can't handle this?
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Word, I was out to eat yesterday and I was like "damn, we should keep doing this."
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
eco's bones
Registered User
We ordered a takeout pizza a few days ago at this Italian place. I looked at the outdoor dining they had set up and.......I'm sure it was 6' but maybe 5'11''--5'10'' between the tables....too close for me anyway. I ain't doing it. I'd rather bring it home. The dining out experience isn't that important to me and they have a shit beer selection anyway.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I've been out a lot by myself these days because I realized you can pretty much do whatever you want by yourself unless you're in a huge crowd like a bar, for example.
So I zoom my friends and then I go out and exercise, travel to different parts of the city, try new food, do photography.
Yesterday was my first time actually at a restaurant and I scouted out a few places to meet my standards. For the most part, I'll get take out and then take it to a park or a plaza where I can sit alone or with a member of my household. It's nice.
We're also hanging out on stoops a lot and it reminds me of the 90's. The few times I have seen family and friends in person has been on our stoops in small groups.
Where we're at right now, I really don't hate, honestly. I'm more than willing to keep it here to not get sick.
The two things I genuinely miss are actually going to work (but what can you do?) and the Liverpool pub. But I wouldn't go right now even if it were open. An old person lives in my house and this whole thing gives me the willies.
At some point I think about what benefit physically dining at the restaurant gives me over takeout. People serving me? Couldn't care less. Beer and cocktails? I make a damn good cocktail and I get beer delivery from NYC's best breweries when I want it (Grimm is on Caviar, they are amazing). Hotter food? A valid point - but at the end of the day I'm okay with a slight food temperature sacrifice to do my part in slowing the spread.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
If you want to say New York did a terrible job in February/March, fine.
To say that their cases going down since then is happenstance and not a model of how to manage this goes against the evidence. Testing and tracing with masks has shown to be successful. New York did not invent this, we got it from successful countries.
eco's bones
Registered User
Well I'm 62 which probably makes me an old person. I don't have any major underlying conditions though so.....there are things that if I'm out (and sometimes I'm in several days in a row) that if it's too busy I'm just moving on. None of this is worth getting the kind of sick I might get from this virus and possibly dying over. I'd prefer not going out on a ventilator anyway.
It would suck more probably if I were younger but even when I was in my 20's I didn't want to give too much of a shit about most everything so maybe it's just personality. I never liked waiting in line and now I got the best excuse ever not to. If the place is crowded--it can f*** off, I'm leaving. In and out for me or not at all.
As far as home my dogs are happier I'm around more.
eco's bones
Registered User
There are so many great breweries around these days though. Cheaper buying it at a store too.
I'm with you.....it's not that big of a sacrifice. Worse thing isn't necessarily getting the virus.....it's giving it to someone else and particularly someone you really care about.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I just came back from an after dark stroll. Things are surprisingly normal. A lot of the outdoor places are open late getting extra hours in. Its great that we're getting the "city that never sleeps" vibe back. One of my favorite things about New York is that you still have civilization outside your door at 11 on a Tuesday.
Ok, so we're all inconvenienced -I'd kill to go to a concert- but it's really not the end of the world. I don't feel like my freedom is limited. Being inconvenienced is not tyranny.
You know when I felt like my freedom was limited? 2-3 months ago when the virus was out of control and I was afraid to walk outside the door.
We're sitting here having this dumb, politicized discussion over "rights" which is doing nothing but slowing down our response. Meanwhile, if the virus gets contained, you can do things again.
Same goes for the economy. We've convinced ourselves that shutdowns ruined it when the virus did. Instead of controlling the virus and getting rid of the thing that's hurting us, we argue over just how much leeway we should let the virus have.
Ok, so we're all inconvenienced -I'd kill to go to a concert- but it's really not the end of the world. I don't feel like my freedom is limited. Being inconvenienced is not tyranny.
You know when I felt like my freedom was limited? 2-3 months ago when the virus was out of control and I was afraid to walk outside the door.
We're sitting here having this dumb, politicized discussion over "rights" which is doing nothing but slowing down our response. Meanwhile, if the virus gets contained, you can do things again.
Same goes for the economy. We've convinced ourselves that shutdowns ruined it when the virus did. Instead of controlling the virus and getting rid of the thing that's hurting us, we argue over just how much leeway we should let the virus have.
Barnaby
Registered User
That’s fine and I totally respect your decision to stay indoors. However, you are not everyone. Not everyone has the same financial situation, mindset, or mental health. People are different. Is going out to eat the biggest deal in the world to me? No, but it does bring back a sense of normalcy that I think is important to a lot of people. If you can do it in a smart way then I’m behind it (outdoors, wearing a mask in/out/to the restroom). I also think your average Joe is amenable to being “smart” for a prolonged period. I don’t think your average Joe will stand for complete solitude and shut down for another 6 months, year, or more.
Just to reiterate, I think many are underestimating the impact of this to people with mental health issues.
Barnaby
Registered User
There will always be people that do whatever they like regardless. I do believe that number will rise if we try to be too stringent. I think the average person gets it....
I don’t think telling people that mass gatherings in cities is okay but you can’t sit with your wife at an outdoor table 10 feet from anyone wearing a mask in/out/to the bathroom is going to fly with average people.
Just to reiterate, I certainly don’t fault or criticize anyone using max caution, but that’s not for everyone.
The key here is just using some common sense and being smart.
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eco's bones
Registered User
Sounds like being cooped up for so long gave you a new perspective on things you might have taken for granted before and an appreciation for some of the smaller things. It's been years since I've lived in NYC but I use to love it---shit going on all the time and so much to do. It is the city that goes straight up into the clouds and it's a walking city if you're into walking. Most cities you can't get anywhere unless you get in a car--though the subways are helpful. New York is a city you can wander around in and always fine something new.
On the virus---the population everywhere and not just in this place or that place---has got to get it into their heads they're really in the middle of a war and some personal sacrifices are going to have to be made and to survive this thing you're going to have to be smart and maybe a little lucky. I think a lot of people (including politicians) decided that this is going on in New York and the northeast and this has nothing to do with me. Too much mixed messaging on what was happening, too much of this 'I'm not involved' and no real national response from the federal govt. It was good that New York banded together with other northeastern states to formulate policy and strategy to combat this thing but really there are 35 or so other states that have done none of that and are just winging it on their own. It's insane to expect good results out of that kind of approach.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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With no real, cohesive, nationwide standards or guidelines, and with decision-making left to the states, I don't think things are stringent at all. We have a whole range of mandates, orders, guidelines, and enforcement across the states. Unfortunately, it is being made a political stake in the ground, with some states openly flouting the advice being given and in the face of worsening numbers.
I don't know where you got the "you can't sit with your wife 10 feet away" thing. Link? Socially distanced outdoor dining's been allowed, afaik.
We've not been stringent, in my view, and the numbers are rising anyway.
Then today I read a story about parties going on where the first person at the party who gets a confirmed infection gets a payout.
Those who are shown on video fighting people over masks, injuring security guards, berating service workers, do they not see that ultimately the stores and places they want to go to will close anyway, when we're back to early April conditions? Because of some ideology that their freedoms are being oppressed by tyrannical forces? Where's the common sense in that?
They end up ruining it for everyone, when everything is shut down again.
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East Coast Bias
Registered User
Our “lockdown” wasn’t remotely strict compared to the rest of the world. Not even close.
You couldn’t leave your house in many European countries. In Ireland my family wasn’t allowed to be more than 3 km from home for months. My cousins a cop there and spent his nights doing checkpoints for people breaking that.
South Africa banned alcohol and cigarettes sales since late March.
We haven’t been remotely inconvenienced comparably, we have worse numbers, and a vocal minority who refuses to work with people to combat this. It’s embarrassing.
You couldn’t leave your house in many European countries. In Ireland my family wasn’t allowed to be more than 3 km from home for months. My cousins a cop there and spent his nights doing checkpoints for people breaking that.
South Africa banned alcohol and cigarettes sales since late March.
We haven’t been remotely inconvenienced comparably, we have worse numbers, and a vocal minority who refuses to work with people to combat this. It’s embarrassing.
It’s gonna be mighty interesting when the Covid 600 runs out this month and many people will be living on 200 dollars a week trying to pay their rent and feed their families.
Ultimately we're going to be trying to fight our way up the side of a cliff until people realize no amount of inconvenience or "mah rights" nonsense supersedes the moral obligation of not putting others at risk. I think one of the biggest issues is people clinging the idea of a "return to normal" in the near future. That's a fools errand. Until there's a widely-distributed vaccine (likely several of them) this is normalcy. Primarily because we've proven that our country is largely incapable of doing what is required in order to return to that state of normalcy.
eco's bones
Registered User
There is no painless way without personal sacrifices made return to any kind of normal we were use to before. This could absolutely kill several hundred thousand people unless we all get on the same page. As well the more in denial that a significant % of the population decides to be the larger the hit is going to be to our economy because they're going to continue to throw fuel on the fire and keep it burning.
Florida breaks record, hits over 10,000 cases in a single day...
Florida shatters records with over 10,000 new COVID-19 cases in single day
Florida Governor.....
Florida shatters records with over 10,000 new COVID-19 cases in single day
Florida Governor.....
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