OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part VII - READ THE OP

[Hunter Gathers]

Surcharge? I buy my own health insurance and have for almost 20 years thru a big health insurance company. The questioning for smoking is a joke. I am sure more than not lie. and some states don't even allow for the surcharge.
And there is an obesity surchage? Last time I checked there wasn't. Maybe on life insurance but not on health insurance.

And going back to your original statement you said a covid EXCLUSION. Which I assume means you should not be covered at all if you're not vaccinated right? So why should smoking related illness, Alcohol, High risk activities be paid by people who don't participate in those high risk activities?

Because one situation is a pandemic and the others are not. I'm not sure why I need to keep typing this.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

My favorite are those who preach masks force people to breath in toxic CO2 and deprive people of oxygen . . . despite healthcare workers wearing masks most of their careers including surgery lol.

I mean, think of how dumb someone with average intelligence really is. And then realize that there are people well below them that believe shit like that. It's kind of shocking.

 

[sbjnyc]

Surcharge? I buy my own health insurance and have for almost 20 years thru a big health insurance company. The questioning for smoking is a joke. I am sure more than not lie. and some states don't even allow for the surcharge.
And there is an obesity surchage? Last time I checked there wasn't. Maybe on life insurance but not on health insurance.

And going back to your original statement you said a covid EXCLUSION. Which I assume means you should not be covered at all if you're not vaccinated right? So why should smoking related illness, Alcohol, High risk activities be paid by people who don't participate in those high risk activities?

Insurance companies aren't stupid. If the application requires medical underwriting then they will know if you lied about using tobacco and will deny the application. If your treatment indicates you haven't been truthful on your application for any reason good luck getting your benefits.

 

[bl02]

Because one situation is a pandemic and the others are not. I'm not sure why I need to keep typing this.

we are talking money here tho (your health insurance premium possibly going up) right?
Why are you so adamant about one thing but not the other high risk activities which cost us way more money in health care costs/our premiums pandemic or not. I’m just trying to be fair to all of the health insurance payers who have been paying thru the nose for years

 

[bl02]

Insurance companies aren't stupid. If the application requires medical underwriting then they will know if you lied about using tobacco and will deny the application. If your treatment indicates you haven't been truthful on your application for any reason good luck getting your benefits.

sure many applications ask how many times a week do u smoke. I can easily say rarely. How are u gonna prove that I’m lying?
Again I’m just speaking based on blue cross NJ questionnaire. Not sure what other companies do

 

[JimmyG89]

The thing that kills me (beyond the anti-vax stuff, but I won't even touch that) are the people that are like, 100% I'm-vaccinated-and-never-wearing-a-mask-again. What's the big f***ing deal? I mean I've been wearing masks for the better part of a year and a half at this point. They don't even bother me anymore. I understand the frustration of people who have to work all day while wearing a mask, but like, is it such a hassle to have to put on a mask entering a restaurant to be seated, keep it on for five minutes until your chips and salsa come out, then take it off and resume your normal dinner? I just don't get it.

My wife's boss is apoplectic that kids are going to have to wear masks in school to start the school year. She's saying she'll pull her kid out if not offered the option for remote learning. I mean, can you imagine that? Her kid is 10, it's not like he's 2 and cries because he has to wear a mask. This woman is so adamantly opposed to masks, because freedom, that she'd rather make her kid sit at home away from all his peers for another year, than have guy wear a mask. It's absolutely crazy.

I was at the doctor this morning. Of course, you wear a mask. It occurred to me as I was in the reception area and there was this skeezy-looking guy coughing up a lung, "Masks are a pretty solid idea, I may wear masks in doctors' offices forever now." I mean really. Other than those uninformed crazies that have turned mask mandates into some sort of personal constitutional crisis, I just don't get why anyone really cares at this point. Don't people want this shit to go away? Isn't that the whole point? None of us WANT to wear masks or any of that, but it's being done now so we don't have to later. Some people can't see the forest for the trees, I guess.

I am not 100% in the I'm not wearing a mask ever again crowd because some places require it in their business and that is up to them, which is totally fine. If the government is going to require me to wear one, that's my issue. The mask is not meant to prevent me from getting COVID. It is meant to prevent me from spreading it. The fact that my chances of getting COVID after being vaccinated are significantly lower than those that are not, I have protection that allows me to assume I do not have it and operate as such.

It is also no longer my responsibility to protect anyone else from COVID since I have done that absolute best thing possible to do that. Every single person (with the exception of those medically compromised and cannot be vaccinated because of that) has the ability to do exactly what I did, which is significantly better than wearing a mask and distancing. When the vaccines just came out, I understood why we still should wear them since not many had it available to them, but now, anyone can get it. If you choose not to be vaccinated, you've made your own decision.

When it comes to children, their chance to get COVID is very minimal, especially the age group that cannot currently be vaccinated. The only reason they are being forced to wear a mask in their school setting is because of the teachers union and it is 100% political and not based on any basis of facts about COVID. It is also a reason teachers will use to not return to work so they can continue to vacation and teach at the same time, which happened countless times. I'd love to work from the beach too, but that couldn't happen. They were sent to the front of the line for vaccines for a reason, to return children to school and so parents can actually return to work. We're destroying children by not having them in the classroom and around their classmates and friends. It goes beyond the educational aspect of things.

 

[sbjnyc]

sure many applications ask how many times a week do u smoke. I can easily say rarely. How are u gonna prove that I’m lying?
Again I’m just speaking based on blue cross NJ questionnaire. Not sure what other companies do

I don't know about BC/BS specifically but generally you're either a smoker or you're not. I don't think there are separate rates based on the level of smoking activity. I certainly don't recall seeing any actuarial tables like that.

If I had to guess (and this is only a guess), an application asking how many times a week you smoke is trying to get people to acknowledge they are smokers. Someone who rarely smokes (or maybe only smokes cigars occasionally) might ordinarily say they are non-smokers (and believe they are being truthful) but if that option is in the application they would probably select it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Insurance companies aren't stupid. If the application requires medical underwriting then they will know if you lied about using tobacco and will deny the application. If your treatment indicates you haven't been truthful on your application for any reason good luck getting your benefits.

Many carriers are requiring a negative cotinine test these days, even.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

we are talking money here tho (your health insurance premium possibly going up) right?
Why are you so adamant about one thing but not the other high risk activities which cost us way more money in health care costs/our premiums pandemic or not. I’m just trying to be fair to all of the health insurance payers who have been paying thru the nose for years

Because one situation is a pandemic and the others are not. I'm not sure why I need to keep typing this.

 

[eco's bones]

So the county health dept. is sending a nurse out to my house this afternoon--yes, a house call---to begin re-vaccinating me for Covid. Both shots not just one. I got Pfizer shots in late February and mid March but then I had a stem cell transplant in late April and in June my transplant doctor told me I should try to get re-vaccinated for Covid in August. I took that very seriously.

But anyway I don't know what other people read but the last few weeks I've read numerous accounts of people lamenting the deaths from covid of their sons, daughters, wives, husbands and a lot of them in their 20's, 30's and 40's and who had failed for whatever reason to get vaccinated. I've also read numerous accounts of people in their 20's, 30's and 40's having their lives saved by a procedure called a double lung transplant. From personal experience I can say that a stem cell transplant is relatively benign. Not much pain or suffering--more in the pain in the ass category for a couple weeks. A double lung transplant I'd figure you're going to suffer a lot first before they decide on it and they're going to have to have the organs available which they might not. But to do it they'll crack your sternum in half to start and then the rest is going to be maybe even more painful than that and there's risks of infection or the body rejecting and maybe years of rehab.

So my advice if you haven't had your vaccination yet don't f*** around anymore with it if only for your own sake. You'll make the world safer for others too.

P.S. I'll also add I've spent 25 days and nights in the hospital this year. It f***ing blows in just about every possible way. The medicos are nice but even so. Some covid patients are in for months. Take it from me those shots are not a big deal.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The thing that kills me (beyond the anti-vax stuff, but I won't even touch that) are the people that are like, 100% I'm-vaccinated-and-never-wearing-a-mask-again. What's the big f***ing deal? I mean I've been wearing masks for the better part of a year and a half at this point. They don't even bother me anymore. I understand the frustration of people who have to work all day while wearing a mask, but like, is it such a hassle to have to put on a mask entering a restaurant to be seated, keep it on for five minutes until your chips and salsa come out, then take it off and resume your normal dinner? I just don't get it.

My wife's boss is apoplectic that kids are going to have to wear masks in school to start the school year. She's saying she'll pull her kid out if not offered the option for remote learning. I mean, can you imagine that? Her kid is 10, it's not like he's 2 and cries because he has to wear a mask. This woman is so adamantly opposed to masks, because freedom, that she'd rather make her kid sit at home away from all his peers for another year, than have guy wear a mask. It's absolutely crazy.

I was at the doctor this morning. Of course, you wear a mask. It occurred to me as I was in the reception area and there was this skeezy-looking guy coughing up a lung, "Masks are a pretty solid idea, I may wear masks in doctors' offices forever now." I mean really. Other than those uninformed crazies that have turned mask mandates into some sort of personal constitutional crisis, I just don't get why anyone really cares at this point. Don't people want this shit to go away? Isn't that the whole point? None of us WANT to wear masks or any of that, but it's being done now so we don't have to later. Some people can't see the forest for the trees, I guess.

I disagree with you. I wear masks indoors even though I'm vaccinated but I find them to be a huge pain in the ass and resent the fact that despite getting vaccinated I have to wear it. Until I take it off I'll feel like a prisoner. I still wear it but not because I want to.

 

[nyr2k2]

I am not 100% in the I'm not wearing a mask ever again crowd because some places require it in their business and that is up to them, which is totally fine. If the government is going to require me to wear one, that's my issue. The mask is not meant to prevent me from getting COVID. It is meant to prevent me from spreading it. The fact that my chances of getting COVID after being vaccinated are significantly lower than those that are not, I have protection that allows me to assume I do not have it and operate as such.

It is also no longer my responsibility to protect anyone else from COVID since I have done that absolute best thing possible to do that. Every single person (with the exception of those medically compromised and cannot be vaccinated because of that) has the ability to do exactly what I did, which is significantly better than wearing a mask and distancing. When the vaccines just came out, I understood why we still should wear them since not many had it available to them, but now, anyone can get it. If you choose not to be vaccinated, you've made your own decision.

When it comes to children, their chance to get COVID is very minimal, especially the age group that cannot currently be vaccinated. The only reason they are being forced to wear a mask in their school setting is because of the teachers union and it is 100% political and not based on any basis of facts about COVID. It is also a reason teachers will use to not return to work so they can continue to vacation and teach at the same time, which happened countless times. I'd love to work from the beach too, but that couldn't happen. They were sent to the front of the line for vaccines for a reason, to return children to school and so parents can actually return to work. We're destroying children by not having them in the classroom and around their classmates and friends. It goes beyond the educational aspect of things.

I actually agree with your first two paragraphs. Not so much the third--I'm a union guy and have worked for the unions my whole life, but I get your point. All I can say to that is that our teachers are all going to be back in the classrooms (unless they opt out, without pay--barring medical exceptions) and those that I know have been dying to get back into the classroom. I do know a number of people who love working from home and want to continue doing so, but the teachers I know have been near-unanimous in telling me they want to be back with the kids. Anyway, again, I understand your points there.

Still, at the end of day, my post was really about the one thing--why is wearing a mask a big deal? Whether it's the government mandating it or the private restauranteur, it just doesn't both me in the slightest. Wearing a mask, after all this time, it's just not a bother for me. I learned to wear seatbelts after growing up laying on the floor for long car rides. My kids learned to wear helmets when riding bikes and scooters. It's just not a big thing, for me, and I still don't really understand why it is for most of those that are opposed to it. It's like putting on socks for me, at this point, but on my face. It's NBD.

 

[nyr2k2]

I disagree with you. I wear masks indoors even though I'm vaccinated but I find them to be a huge pain in the ass and resent the fact that despite getting vaccinated I have to wear it. Until I take it off I'll feel like a prisoner. I still wear it but not because I want to.

I mean, if it's physically uncomfortable, I get being frustrated by the requirements. I sleep with a CPAP machine hooked up to my head and on my face so maybe I have a higher threshold for facial-wear than most. I'm talking more about the people who just don't want to wear them because of some principle or belief that their rights are being infringed upon or whatever. I don't get that aspect. I mean--I do get it because of the politicization of everything, I just hate that's a thing now. I'm just trying to stay as far away from politics here as possible.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I mean, if it's physically uncomfortable, I get being frustrated by the requirements. I sleep with a CPAP machine hooked up to my head and on my face so maybe I have a higher threshold for facial-wear than most. I'm talking more about the people who just don't want to wear them because of some principle or belief that their rights are being infringed upon or whatever. I don't get that aspect. I mean--I do get it because of the politicization of everything, I just hate that's a thing now. I'm just trying to stay as far away from politics here as possible.

I thought you were including the people that vaccinated only. Those people tend to not be as concerned about their rights being infringed with a mask. I personally am more ok with it than I was before being vaccinated because I don't wear it outside anymore. But it's still a bit of a mental anchor to me.

 

[bl02]

I don't know about BC/BS specifically but generally you're either a smoker or you're not. I don't think there are separate rates based on the level of smoking activity. I certainly don't recall seeing any actuarial tables like that.

If I had to guess (and this is only a guess), an application asking how many times a week you smoke is trying to get people to acknowledge they are smokers. Someone who rarely smokes (or maybe only smokes cigars occasionally) might ordinarily say they are non-smokers (and believe they are being truthful) but if that option is in the application they would probably select it.

Also I am ok with surcharges. Denying medical care to someone who is already paying for their insurance is another ballgame entirely! I am sure Smokers and alcoholics are not denied/covered medical care even if their ailment was caused by their risky behaivoir. They may pay a surcharge (but even this is debatable who strict this regulation is).

 

[bl02]

Because one situation is a pandemic and the others are not. I'm not sure why I need to keep typing this.

Because making it law to give the insurance companies the ability to deny someone medical coverage on something they have been paying for is a very slippery slope.

 

[frozenrubber]

Because making it law to give the insurance companies the ability to deny someone medical coverage on something they have been paying for is a very slippery slope.

Slippery slope, not in the least.

Apparently, you aren't familiar with the multi-trillion dollar industry of insurance and their MO of 'denying coverage on something they have been paying for'

Drink and drive, rob a bank, car insurance won't be paying your claim. Make renovations in your house without a permit, homeowners insurance won't pay your claim. Taking part of an illegal act, medical insurance can deny coverage as well.

So many programs have been setup to alleviate any burden on the consumer, free vaccines, free tests, free COVID care for uninsured. Safety net after safety net to help get people to the take one of the best medical products in HISTORY (with some of the most robust monitoring).

If anyone wants to beat the tired drum of 'personal responsibility', then your personal responsibility is to not transmit COVID to not another living soul, not shrug your shoulders and carry on as usual.

 

[sbjnyc]

Also I am ok with surcharges. Denying medical care to someone who is already paying for their insurance is another ballgame entirely! I am sure Smokers and alcoholics are not denied/covered medical care even if their ailment was caused by their risky behaivoir. They may pay a surcharge (but even this is debatable who strict this regulation is).

Don't be so sure.

Insurance companies are not in the business of denying medical care. However, they will deny coverage if they find you applied for coverage in bad faith by lying on your application and will most likely rescind your policy.

 

[bl02]

Don't be so sure.

Insurance companies are not in the business of denying medical care. However, they will deny coverage if they find you applied for coverage in bad faith by lying on your application and will most likely rescind your policy.

Not saying you're completely off base but I have yet to hear of anyone being denied care because of their severe obesity or because they smoke or drink in excess. For example, I think someone who has poor blood sugar control and obesity will still have their medical costs covered just as much as the next. They may pay more in premiums ( I can't factually say this is the case for everyone) but they can not be denied coverage.

 

[bl02]

Slippery slope, not in the least.

Apparently, you aren't familiar with the multi-trillion dollar industry of insurance and their MO of 'denying coverage on something they have been paying for'

Drink and drive, rob a bank, car insurance won't be paying your claim. Make renovations in your house without a permit, homeowners insurance won't pay your claim. Taking part of an illegal act, medical insurance can deny coverage as well.

So many programs have been setup to alleviate any burden on the consumer, free vaccines, free tests, free COVID care for uninsured. Safety net after safety net to help get people to the take one of the best medical products in HISTORY (with some of the most robust monitoring).

If anyone wants to beat the tired drum of 'personal responsibility', then your personal responsibility is to not transmit COVID to not another living soul, not shrug your shoulders and carry on as usual.

You're talking about illegal activities/acts here. Of course they wouldn't be covered (In some cases states prohibit alcohol and drug exclusion clauses).

 

[sbjnyc]

Not saying you're completely off base but I have yet to hear of anyone being denied care because of their severe obesity or because they smoke or drink in excess. For example, I think someone who has poor blood sugar control and obesity will still have their medical costs covered just as much as the next. They may pay more in premiums ( I can't factually say this is the case for everyone) but they can not be denied coverage.

Insurance companies don't deny care. They may deny benefits if you lie on your application about smoking, though. If they rescind your policy they will refund your premiums.

 

[bl02]

Insurance companies don't deny care. They may deny benefits if you lie on your application about smoking, though. If they rescind your policy they will refund your premiums.

I meant deny paying for that care.

 

[sbjnyc]

I meant deny paying for that care.

I'm only talking about the consequences of lying on an application. An insurer may deny benefits for other, less valid, reasons but that's a different can of worms.

 

[bl02]

Insurance companies don't deny care. They may deny benefits if you lie on your application about smoking, though. If they rescind your policy they will refund your premiums.

Well even if someone says they are a smoker they will be charged a higher premium but they they will be covered say if they needed a cardiovascular procedure or Lung procedure right?

 

[bl02]

I'm only talking about the consequences of lying on an application. An insurer may deny benefits for other, less valid, reasons but that's a different can of worms.

Gotcha. I agree with that. If they indeed follow up and catch someone lying about the smoking part. Then I am sure they can deny paying.