OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part II (READ THE OP)

[Synergy27]

kinda cherry picking IMO. He didn’t cause mass hysteria but rather downplayed the inevitable. We’ve never seen anything like this so it’s impossible to say he handled this poorly or if others could have handle it better. On the flip side, I do believe the fickle media could handle it better.

Yeah, no. There are several examples of leaders around the world who have handled it better. Definitely not impossible to know.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Yeah, no. There are several examples of leaders around the world who have handled it better. Definitely not impossible to know.

What did they do and who are they?

 

[eco's bones]

Actually, the actions being taken at the federal level is ALLOWING these people to step up.

If things like this were treated federally, we would never get what we need. Has nothing to do with any administration, because whoever was running it would not be able to get people what they need.

We're also at a point where bigger populaces need different things. That's why state, city, and local officials need the power to make choices, which they are.

Do we need the same protocols for NYC as, let's say, Boise? Why would they need anything related to this with just 5 confirmed cases? Let their local officials make the decisions. Federal oversight is the last thing we need. What we need is the federal government to take the chains off of the state and local governments so they can be more proactive and be able to help in their local areas. Everything I have seen so far has been done to empower state/city/local governments.

When Cuomo and Newsom are praising the work they have done with Trump and the help he is giving them, I know damn well that it's happening, because those two would probably throw him under an 18 wheeler if they could.

FWIW Trump actually gave a good press conference today. He was very clear and serious and the medical people alongside him seem at work developing a coherent plan (I would point out though that Seema Verma who was standing behind him to his right is a hack and completely unqualified for her job--but that's an aside)--and he actually deferred to the professionals and didn't make this about himself for once which was good to see.....and it pleased me or almost anyway. I'll be blunt---I don't like Cuomo or Newsom--I came to not even like Obama. I detest Trump. All these people though have some responsibility for making good public policy particularly in crisis moments and this is a crisis moment. I don't want mixed messages---this is not the time to be f***ing around. Trump was pretty good today so I'll give him credit for that.

 

[Synergy27]

What did they do and who are they?

South Korea leads the list. Japan. Singapore. They’ve acknowledge the risk from day 1, facilitated mass testing, and let real data guide their responses. We went from literally calling this a partisan hoax, to false claims about having it under control, to still half baked containment measures which are still being driven by very incomplete data. This is all above and beyond the crude and haphazard messaging being put forth directly by the chief executive.

Is that good enough for you?

 

[vladmyir111]

South Korea leads the list. Japan. Singapore. They’ve acknowledge the risk from day 1, facilitated mass testing, and let real data guide their responses. We went from literally calling this a partisan hoax, to false claims about having it under control, to still half baked containment measures which are still being driven by very incomplete data. This is all above and beyond the crude and haphazard messaging being put forth directly by the chief executive.

Is that good enough for you?

1. S. Korea has had more of their population infected than us (% wise)

2. By your standards then Cuba guy and Vladimir Putin are the greatest leaders in the world.

3. I still don't get the mass testing argument. Think back to January, who were you going to test exactly? Force testing on anyone that coughed or sneezed? No one had it what were you going to test?

 

[GordonGecko]

I still don't get the mass testing argument. Think back to January, who were you going to test exactly? Force testing on anyone that coughed or sneezed? No one had it what were you going to test?

Everybody stepping off a plane or cruise ship, and everyone who was near a confirmed case

 

[Levitate]

1. S. Korea has had more of their population infected than us (% wise)

Not true. We literally don't know the % of population infected in the US because we don't have even a fraction of enough testing to have any idea.

We haven't even had enough testing to test everyone who might have it.

We literally have no idea how bad it currently is.

 

[Crease]

As good of a time as ever to rebuild the subways...

 

[Levitate]

Also stuff like this is why widespread testing would be incredibly beneficial and help stop the spread sooner rather than later:

Covid-19 Is Spreading Far and Wide From People Who Don't Feel Sick, New Research Finds

People who are infectious and carrying the disease but are not feeling symptoms or getting sick are spreading it.

In a perfect world you could setup testing locations where everyone could get tested and you could better isolate those with the illness and help make sure the healthy avoid the sick.

But we can't do that...the best we're getting now is people with serious serious symptoms can maybe go get tested and a lot of people are probably out and about thinking "I'm not sick" but are infecting others

 

[NYSPORTS]

South Korea leads the list. Japan. Singapore. They’ve acknowledge the risk from day 1, facilitated mass testing, and let real data guide their responses. We went from literally calling this a partisan hoax, to false claims about having it under control, to still half baked containment measures which are still being driven by very incomplete data. This is all above and beyond the crude and haphazard messaging being put forth directly by the chief executive.

Is that good enough for you?

Hasn’t it been reported their numbers are wrong?

We have with 4,000 cases. Did you expect zero? We don’t have a vaccine. Nobody does. So what if we did have more testing? Ok, now we see how many have it yet we don’t have a vaccine. Schools nationwide are closed, cities are closing down, etc while we have 4,000 cases. What else can we do? Closing the country before it hits only gives people a false sense of security and they go back to their normal way of life or the media calls it a false alarm. It’s not one guy running the show. Without a vaccine, it’s not fair to blame anybody IMO.

Should the Chief’s message be different? IDK, did you ever think some people wouldn’t get it regardless? Honestly, a virus is coming so they get toilet paper while the medicine aisle is bypassed.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Im worried about 3 things at this point, putting aside the completely bungled response from the federal government:

1. Obviously, containing the spread. All Americans need to take this seriously immediately unless you want to be going to a few funerals for parents/grandparents.

2. Im legitimately worried at what a de-facto martial law policy is going to have on NYC. I've been around this city all my life - people don't like being told what to do. They need to listen and be good citizens or things could get real ugly in the streets real fast

3. The economic fallout of this is incalculable at this point. Once earnings #'s start coming in, people are going to start losing their jobs by the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions.

Im 37 years old with a kid. I look at this people congregating in bars and small spaces and think they're f***ing idiots. That said, 20 year old me probably would've thought much differently.

 

[Bob Richards]

My job is will now be from home.

I just started last week lol. What a time to be alive.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Im worried about 3 things at this point, putting aside the completely bungled response from the federal government:

1. Obviously, containing the spread. All Americans need to take this seriously immediately unless you want to be going to a few funerals for parents/grandparents.

2. Im legitimately worried at what a de-facto martial law policy is going to have on NYC. I've been around this city all my life - people don't like being told what to do. They need to listen and be good citizens or things could get real ugly in the streets real fast


Im 37 years old with a kid. I look at this people congregating in bars and small spaces and think they're f***ing idiots. That said, 20 year old me probably would've thought much differently.

doesn’t that say a lot though? Blame the Government in the opening then make two legit points in which Americans still don’t listen regardless. Early or late, the message is out there yet so many go about their business. Isn’t that a “bungled” reaction?

so many want to point blame yet aren’t accountable themselves (not the op) but those flooding Disney, flooding the bars, going to restaurants, etc.

 

[Leonardo87]

Love Mel Brooks..

 

[UnSandvich]

Love Mel Brooks..

Max is a great author as well. Highly recommend World War Z, and the Zombie Survival Guide is funny in a kinda satire way

 

[Nanaki]

My job is will now be from home.

I just started last week lol. What a time to be alive.

You're lucky. I'm a Produce manager at a supermarket and I have absolutely no choice but to be there. All of the employees are scared to death that they are going to get sick but no one even has an option to stay home.

 

[Bob Richards]

You're lucky. I'm a Produce manager at a supermarket and I have absolutely no choice but to be there. All of the employees are scared to death that they are going to get sick but no one even has an option to stay home.

I truly wish the best in health and safety for you and your coworkers.

Former supermarket employee myself (including produce).

That goes for everyone here. I know my HF persona is mostly a joking clown guy but I care about people and hope everyone keeps themselves and each other safe.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

doesn’t that say a lot though? Blame the Government in the opening then make two legit points in which Americans still don’t listen regardless. Early or late, the message is out there yet so many go about their business. Isn’t that a “bungled” reaction?

so many want to point blame yet aren’t accountable themselves (not the op) but those flooding Disney, flooding the bars, going to restaurants, etc.

Had the government taken this seriously a month or two ago, the message would be more widespread and people would be acting more appropriately now. Instead, the country has basically had to turn on a dime and somewhat unbelievably, it nearly has. But you are obviously not going to do that fully with 350 Million people. Still, since the NBA shutdown, less than a week ago, the change has been dramatic and impressive, despite the President's continued attempts to downplay this (sans today).

The Federal Government, and specifically the President, very easily could have been projecting concern and caution about this stuff for over a month. Preparing Americans for what was to come. Instead, it was downplayed and led Americans (including many I know) to have a false sense of security when this was so clearly going to be coming here and causing mass chaos.

My wife (who is from Europe) asked me today why, when we were out to dinner nearly a month and a half ago, was I so concerned, yet the government was not. And I truly could not answer her. I don't know why a nobody like me was seemingly more concerned about this virus than the leaders of this nation.

Also, to the other guy above who was saying what good would testing do. There are two main things about testing:

1. We should have been preparing test kids to be ready for what has hit us now, for over a month. Instead, we are scrambling to mass produce tests when, on the lower end, experts are estimating that 20-40K Americans are already infected.

2. Had we been testing earlier, it would have been more widespread and, like South Korea, we very likely could have traced contacts and isolated the virus within communities. This would have very possibly allowed us to limit the social distancing which is taking place now.

Social distancing is meant to only be one piece of the puzzle, yet for us, it is an absolute last ditch effort to stem the bleeding of something the government has lost complete control of. And our social distancing will likely be necessitated for a significantly longer period than other countries due to the fact that we are playing catch up now, instead of having been aggressive from the outset.

It's just a debacle from top to bottom. And it wasn't hard to see this coming. We could have been so much better prepared. It's truly shocking to me, that not one person in the upper echelons of our government didn't somehow wake up and demand that we start doing the right thing. It is even sadder when you realize the complete destruction this administration has done to departments specifically tasked with handling situations like this, over the past few years.

 

[eco's bones]

doesn’t that say a lot though? Blame the Government in the opening then make two legit points in which Americans still don’t listen regardless. Early or late, the message is out there yet so many go about their business. Isn’t that a “bungled” reaction?

so many want to point blame yet aren’t accountable themselves (not the op) but those flooding Disney, flooding the bars, going to restaurants, etc.

It's up to our political leaders to make that case though---when people get mixed messages they're not going to take them seriously......and things will only get worse exponentially the longer this goes on. There will be more people who die and more people who lose their jobs or their businesses the longer we delay doing something for real. We might even see entire industries go down. This is a we're all in it together moment. We can go back to all the political divisiveness when it's all over with but for now we need a unified response to getting on top of this situation--which also means both political parties have to be together on whatever solution. If AOC and Ted Cruz can find common ground it shouldn't be that hard for the rest of us.

 

[Synergy27]

Hasn’t it been reported their numbers are wrong?

We have with 4,000 cases. Did you expect zero? We don’t have a vaccine. Nobody does. So what if we did have more testing? Ok, now we see how many have it yet we don’t have a vaccine. Schools nationwide are closed, cities are closing down, etc while we have 4,000 cases. What else can we do? Closing the country before it hits only gives people a false sense of security and they go back to their normal way of life or the media calls it a false alarm. It’s not one guy running the show. Without a vaccine, it’s not fair to blame anybody IMO.

Should the Chief’s message be different? IDK, did you ever think some people wouldn’t get it regardless? Honestly, a virus is coming so they get toilet paper while the medicine aisle is bypassed.

We have way, way more cases than 4,000. Likely an order of magnitude more. If we had the ability to confirm that, the less compliant among us might be willing to make the necessary “sacrifices” required to get this under control. As it stands now, there is still a large portion of the population who either denies the existence of the problem or is unafraid of its consequences.

I concede that some number, probably a large percentage, of these people would feel that way no matter what. But to claim that the president’s initial reaction to this threat hasn’t emboldened that type of person is insane from my view.

Everything feels about a week behind to me. For reference, I made my big emergency Costco run two full weeks ago. We are limiting damage now when we could have been proactively preventing it.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

 

[Ola]

Also stuff like this is why widespread testing would be incredibly beneficial and help stop the spread sooner rather than later:

Covid-19 Is Spreading Far and Wide From People Who Don't Feel Sick, New Research Finds

People who are infectious and carrying the disease but are not feeling symptoms or getting sick are spreading it.

In a perfect world you could setup testing locations where everyone could get tested and you could better isolate those with the illness and help make sure the healthy avoid the sick.

But we can't do that...the best we're getting now is people with serious serious symptoms can maybe go get tested and a lot of people are probably out and about thinking "I'm not sick" but are infecting others

Yeah, this is the big difference between Sars and covid. With Sars, most got darn sick fast and it was easy to track them and isolate them. In Sweden after the winter break many came home from the alps and when a relative was sick the whole family was tested and many was found having it without having any or very mild symptoms.

Who am I to speculate on this, but I don’t think it makes any sense to look at numbers of confirmed cases in relation to hospitalized victims and deaths — and out that in relation to estimates of how many will get sick (say 10-50% of the population). Like Sweden have 1,000 confirmed cases, Italy what 10,000. I wonder if multiplying those figures with 100x even would be enough. I am sure it’s the same in the US.

So it’s definitely possible that the hospitalization rate of Covid 19 is 2% instead of 20%, but it’s the number of confirmed cases that is waaaay to low (ie 10x too low).

 

[Ola]

I saw the WHO boss say that the key is to test, test and then test more.

However, I know that many don’t agree with this. The experts in Great Britain and Sweden for example. Once the virus was spread in the community they basically cut the testing. Said that it only helped as long as you could trace and isolate victims, which became impossible once it was out in the society. Testing takes a lot of resources, they have chosen to focus those resources elsewhere.

Maybe the US was way to slow with the early testing — but I am not 100% sure that mass testing ‘once it is out’ is the right thing to do.

 

[Ola]

This point in time, it’s beneficial to have a population that trusts the politicians, and not to come from a position where two sides have been smearing each other for decades...

 

[Levitate]

So it’s definitely possible that the hospitalization rate of Covid 19 is 2% instead of 20%, but it’s the number of confirmed cases that is waaaay to low (ie 10x too low).

This is certainly the case.

It's not a reason to panic or anything but just to recognize that we don't really know what the infection rate truly is in the US at least.

doesn’t that say a lot though? Blame the Government in the opening then make two legit points in which Americans still don’t listen regardless. Early or late, the message is out there yet so many go about their business. Isn’t that a “bungled” reaction?

so many want to point blame yet aren’t accountable themselves (not the op) but those flooding Disney, flooding the bars, going to restaurants, etc.

I mean I'm not gonna dive deep into the blame game on a hockey board but you kind of essentially seem to be saying "why should the government bother to do anything ever because some people might ignore it!"
The Fed government should set an example and clear policy about what is happening and how they're handling it and from all indications that wasn't the case here.