Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XIII

[4thline]

There should be concern over the long term effects of a vaccine that hasn’t been properly vetted, there’s a reason it usually takes 10 plus years for drugs/vaccines to normally go to market. If your not concerned with the above get the vaccine, if you do have reservations continue to protect yourselves and others by the current protocols.

There's several, namely-
-lack of financial resources
-bureaucratic approvals being drawn out because of agencies with competing priorities for limited resources
-running trials in sequence rather than concurrently
-trials needing to run longer to A. gather enough volunteers, and B. be confident that said volunteers have been exposed in their daily lives

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

A. I literally said I'm against denying anyone access to healthcare. That's not the same thing as being denied access to congregate settings such as MSG.

B. It will have been out there for a year or damn close to it by the time the majority of Canadians get the opportunity

C. "virtually untested, rushed to market toxic poisons with yet-to-be known long term side effects" plays right back to the "insult" (fact) that whatever your education level is, choosing to trust in it +anti-vax propaganda over the guidance of the global scientific and medical community is not a "lifestyle", it's a bad decision.

Tell me what else I should do and think to make you happy.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The decision to forego a single discrete action that eliminates the vast majority of risk because of the election to trust in your C in grade 10 applied science over a global medical and scientific consensus is not exactly a "lifestyle"

To be clear- I'm not in favour of barring anyone from healthcare, it's simply not the Canadian way. But that being said actions/ consequences for choices is in no way discrimination, and there is long standing precedent for it under our charter.

Sure but obesity is a decision to forgo the single biggest way to eliminate heart disease and a myriad of other problems. So I say if someone wants to deny me healthcare for not getting a covid vaccine, I want to know their BMI so I can make preachy theoretical decisions on their healthcare.

 

[4thline]

Tell me what else I should do and think to make you happy.

Vaccinate your kids so we don't see the continued return of preventable and previously almost eradicated diseases
Get your Covid shot when your time comes, so we can all put this behind us.
Do yourself a favour and cut out any garbage source of information that uses rhetoric like "toxic poisions" to refer to vaccines, they're either morons or snakeoil salesmen, you'll be better off

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Sure but obesity is a decision to forgo the single biggest way to eliminate heart disease and a myriad of other problems. So I say if someone wants to deny me healthcare for not getting a covid vaccine, I want to know their BMI so I can make preachy theoretical decisions on their healthcare.

Including severity of Covid complications (in which death is exceedingly rare outside of comorbidity factors)

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Federal Health Officials Say AstraZeneca Vaccine Trial May Have Relied on ‘Outdated Information’

Last Updated
March 23, 2021, 10:19 a.m. ET12 minutes ago
Federal officials said that an independent panel of medical experts questioned the promising results announced by the company on Monday.

U.S. health officials question results from AstraZeneca’s vaccine trial, less than a day after they’re released.

AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine being administered in Milan on Monday.Credit...Alessandro Grassani for The New York Times
Federal health officials said Tuesday that the encouraging results that AstraZeneca announced about its Covid-19 vaccine may have been based on outdated and incomplete information about the vaccine’s effectiveness, an extraordinary blow to the credibility of an already embattled vaccine.
In a statement released after midnight, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said that an independent panel of medical experts that has been helping to oversee AstraZeneca’s U.S. trial had “expressed concern that AstraZeneca may have included outdated information from that trial, which may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data.”
The exact nature of the institute’s concerns — and the effect they might have on how effective the vaccine appears to be — was unclear. But it is highly unusual for such a dust-up about the integrity of a clinical trial, especially one as high-profile as this, to occur in public.

 

[4thline]

Sure but obesity is a decision to forgo the single biggest way to eliminate heart disease and a myriad of other problems. So I say if someone wants to deny me healthcare for not getting a covid vaccine, I want to know their BMI so I can make preachy theoretical decisions on their healthcare.

I mean it's literally in the post, I don't support anyone being denied healthcare. I'm also in favour of all Canadians living healthier. But equating the "decision" to live healthy day and day out with the "decision" to take half an hour to get a shot is a joke.

Also BMI? Most of my junior hockey team measured as obese while in our physical primes.

 

[ULF_55]

Hopefully we get enough vaccinated before summer that things can get back to normalish.

Now if too many opt out it just means more restrictions and those that are suffering will continue to do so.

Seems like a strong financial reason to get vaccinated, but not everyone is concerned about people's financial health.

 

[Future]

You don't get the vaccine just for yourself -- you also get it for others.

The vaccine doesn't necessarily give you immunity. Ever under ideal labatory conditions, the most effective vaccines are not effective for at least 5% of people who receive them, and perhaps much more than that in real-world conditions.

Even if you are vaccinated, you can't assume you are immune. You should continue to take the same public health precautions that you would if you were not vaccinated because there is no way to tell which vaccinated persons are not immune unless they actually come down with symptomatic COVID.

Asymptomatic vaccinated prrsons can also unknowingly transmit COVID to their family, friends and other personal contacts.

Without knowing individually which vaccinated persons are immune -- or not -- if enough people get the vaccine then the chains of transmission will eventuallybe broken and public health would be restored. Like polio. Like smallpox. Like typhoid fever. Like other contagious diseases that are prone to epidemic and for which there is a vaccine.

It is an individual decision for which there are public health consequences that go far beyond yourself.

Naturally, this doesn't sit well we me-firsters in a me-first society.

Not sure what is so taboo about putting yourself first. You’re saying it as if it is an insult lol. I think it’s completely natural for everyone to have that mindset for themselves and their families. Most people just want to be left alone.

You’re suggesting vaccinated people continue to wear masks and not visit their friends/family. Basically, continue to live their lives like caged animals because there is a fraction of a percent chance that they may not be completely immune and/or they’re still able to transmit the virus to others. Ya sorry, you can do that if you want, but that is completely ridiculous.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Vaccinate your kids so we don't see the continued return of preventable and previously almost eradicated diseases
Get your Covid shot when your time comes, so we can all put this behind us.
Do yourself a favour and cut out any garbage source of information that uses rhetoric like "toxic poisions" to refer to vaccines, they're either morons or snakeoil salesmen, you'll be better off

Don't stop - tell me how to think politically so I can be a good person like you.

 

[4thline]

Don't stop - tell me how to think politically so I can be a good person like you.

Vaccines aren't political. There's a scientifically verifiable right and wrong.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Vaccines aren't political. There's a scientifically verifiable right and wrong.

That's nothing to do with what I said. We're past vaccine talk and now I want your opinion on how I should think politically to be a s virtuous as you, friend.

 

[GoonieFace]

Vaccinate your kids so we don't see the continued return of preventable and previously almost eradicated diseases
Get your Covid shot when your time comes, so we can all put this behind us.
Do yourself a favour and cut out any garbage source of information that uses rhetoric like "toxic poisions" to refer to vaccines, they're either morons or snakeoil salesmen, you'll be better off

I have all my vaccinations, my kids do as well. It angers me that there are so many people that aren’t vaccinated against MMR. I don’t care that the odds of these diseases coming back are rare. As for the covid vaccination, I am a little reluctant to jump in head first without knowing everything, especially given the underwhelming severity. The only reason I will probably get it, is so I can see my parents who are older.

 

[4thline]

That's nothing to do with what I said. We're past vaccine talk and now I want your opinion on how I should think politically to be a s virtuous as you, friend.

I mean, every one of my posts has been directly about vaccines.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I mean, every one of my posts has been directly about vaccines.

Nah, seriously I want to learn to be more like you so I too can make smug, derogatory remarks to other people and feel completely justified because I know I'm so virtuous and knowledgeable. The world needs more of that.

 

[4thline]

Nah, seriously I want to learn to be more like you so I too can make smug, derogatory remarks to other people and feel completely justified because I know I'm so virtuous and knowledgeable. The world needs more of that.

What part of this are you taking personal? That being anti-vax is objectively wrong or that it's none of
-a lifestyle
-a political view
-a protected creed/religion etc.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I mean it's literally in the post, I don't support anyone being denied healthcare. I'm also in favour of all Canadians living healthier. But equating the "decision" to live healthy day and day out with the "decision" to take half an hour to get a shot is a joke.

Also BMI? Most of my junior hockey team measured as obese while in our physical primes.

It's not a "half an hour" if I'm uncomfortable with the vaccine.

Edit: BTW, yes, I get it you said you wouldn't deny someone healthcare. That's why I was very careful to say *someone*, not you, but basically you're arguing on behalf of the other poster saying they would deny me healthcare.

 

[Pink Mist]

It's not a "half an hour" if I'm uncomfortable with the vaccine.

It's half an hour for the majority (of the extremely rare) adverse effects to occur (like any other vaccine) otherwise it is something you never need to think about after getting like any other vaccine you've had in your life

 

[Bluelines]

Federal Health Officials Say AstraZeneca Vaccine Trial May Have Relied on ‘Outdated Information’

Last Updated
March 23, 2021, 10:19 a.m. ET12 minutes ago
Federal officials said that an independent panel of medical experts questioned the promising results announced by the company on Monday.

U.S. health officials question results from AstraZeneca’s vaccine trial, less than a day after they’re released.

AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine being administered in Milan on Monday.Credit...Alessandro Grassani for The New York Times
Federal health officials said Tuesday that the encouraging results that AstraZeneca announced about its Covid-19 vaccine may have been based on outdated and incomplete information about the vaccine’s effectiveness, an extraordinary blow to the credibility of an already embattled vaccine.
In a statement released after midnight, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said that an independent panel of medical experts that has been helping to oversee AstraZeneca’s U.S. trial had “expressed concern that AstraZeneca may have included outdated information from that trial, which may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data.”
The exact nature of the institute’s concerns — and the effect they might have on how effective the vaccine appears to be — was unclear. But it is highly unusual for such a dust-up about the integrity of a clinical trial, especially one as high-profile as this, to occur in public.

You have to wonder just how honest a company will be when there is potentially hundreds of millions of dollars (billion$ ??) at stake. When a profit motive is involved, you have to wonder just what companies will do to profit. Back in the 90's there was a retired executive from one of the big US Pharma's who stated when asked, about an AIDS cure. He said if the governments made it profitable enough for his former company they would have had a cure by now. So what is stopping these companies from using outdated research as a marketing ploy to stop the bad press from that spoiled batch in Europe? If that incident in Europe never happened, there probably would have never been an article claiming AZ is safe to use. These guys know most people will just read the headlines. Headline: AZ Safe to use... uhhh no need to read the article, everything I need to know is in that headline.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Vaccinate your kids so we don't see the continued return of preventable and previously almost eradicated diseases
Get your Covid shot when your time comes, so we can all put this behind us.
Do yourself a favour and cut out any garbage source of information that uses rhetoric like "toxic poisions" to refer to vaccines, they're either morons or snakeoil salesmen, you'll be better off

Comparing child vaccines to covid vaccines is no different than comparing covid to the flu (a false equivalency). Child vaccines have a long history with very well known side effects. Covid vaccines are a less than a year old with no long term research and in the case of at least one, they are still debating the side effects. I'll probably take it BTW, just saying it's not the same and I'm happy I'm in an age group that gets to wait and see.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

It's not a "half an hour" if I'm uncomfortable with the vaccine.

Remember when Dr. Tam said that shutting down travel from China was 'racist' or when she also said that masks weren't necessary? Shut up and take the shot now or you're a bad person.

 

[Bluelines]

It's half an hour for the majority (of the extremely rare) adverse effects to occur otherwise it is something you never need to think about after getting like any other vaccine you've had in your life

What about the nanobots?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Vaccines aren't political. There's a scientifically verifiable right and wrong.

Science doesn'tt work like that or we'd be using Newton's laws of motion to send rovers to Mars.

 

[Pink Mist]

Comparing child vaccines to covid vaccines is no different than comparing covid to the flu (a false equivalency). Child vaccines have a long history with very well known size effects. Covid vaccines are a less than a year old with no long term research and in the case of at least one, they are still debating the side effects. I'll probably take it BTW, just saying it's not the same and I'm happy I'm in an age group that gets to wait and see.

No, its not the same as comparing covid to the flu because there's been nothing to suggest that covid vaccines are any more dangerous than other vaccines

 

[Bluelines]

Remember when Dr. Tam said that shutting down travel from China was 'racist' or when she also said that masks weren't necessary? Shut up and take the shot now or you're a bad person.

Well if you target one country while allowing tens of thousands of people to come in from Europe and USA, where we now know the virus explosion in Canada came from, yeah it an uneducated action, xenophobic.

It's the same stupidity we saw with the Spanish Flu, the virus didn't actually come from Spain but because that is where the newspapers first reported it, it got the label Spanish Flu.

Yeah the virus started in China but it spread rapidly to Europe and the US, then to Canada. If you are shutting down travel, you have to consider the hot spots and shut them down too. Shut down China. Shut down Europe. Shut down USA.

Correction: Shut up and take the shot or you are a stupid person...