Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[BertCorbeau]

job loss is a given. You need to exemplify behaviour that reflects the common good.

fines would be applicable if they travelled with people outside their household or fail to stay home for 14 days upon arrival. Including for groceries.

hopefully they have eyes on them.

Kenney just gave them a free pass .. Pretty big joke out that way.

At least the MoF in Ontario resigned.

Awful, awful leadership actions though. How dumb can these people be?

 

[Nineteen67]

job loss is a given. You need to exemplify behaviour that reflects the common good.

fines would be applicable if they travelled with people outside their household or fail to stay home for 14 days upon arrival. Including for groceries.

hopefully they have eyes on them.

He’s a politician therefore lacks integrity but unfortunately we can’t fine them all.

Here are several examples of politicians and bureaucrats breaking Covid rules.

 

[Nineteen67]

Anyone see that video out of Gatineau where police officers were sent to break up a family gathering of 6 people after a neighbour called it in? They arrived and started assaulting the family by the looks of it while tearing them out of their home. Pretty crazy stuff, gave me chills.

Really going down a scary path here.



*couldn't find the original source but this looks to be the same video

No slippery slope.

And the neighbour that called it in.....

 

[Pookie]

No slippery slope.

And the neighbour that called it in.....

so the choice was to let them in and get a ticket or resist and risk assault charges?

 

[Nineteen67]

so the choice was to let them in and get a ticket or resist and risk assault charges?

They have no business going into someone’s house.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I would highlight there are differences between and article and a peer reviewed academic study published in a medical journal.

and yes, science does evolve as more research is done.

initially Covid was not thought to be transmissible between humans.

Covid doesn’t have “magic” aerosols. Cloth masks don’t stop aerosols.
The peer reviewed study you linked doesn’t differentiate between droplets and aerosols. You see that, don’t you?

 

[Confucius]

They have no business going into someone’s house.

agreed they could have just looked up the house owners and mailed them the fine. we are talking bylaw infraction here, not hiding armed bandits.

 

[Nineteen67]

agreed they could have just looked up the house owners and mailed them the fine. we are talking bylaw infraction here, not hiding armed bandits.

Or not even worried about it.

 

[Pookie]

They have no business going into someone’s house.

Sure they do. This has been in place since Sept 30th.

"Quebec gives police legal tools to enter homes quickly to stop gatherings during COVID-19"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/public-health-restrictions-quebec-covid-19-1.5745046

And in fact, there were also multiple warnings issues publicly before Christmas:

Eg:

While Quebec continues to shatter its COVID-19 daily case records, police around the province are warning the public that they will be out in full force making sure people are abiding by the social distancing measures.

“There will be additional staff that will be deployed in the field in order to respond to calls,” said David Pelletier, a spokesperson for the Quebec City Police Service (SPVQ).

Authorities say officers who will see violations will have a “low tolerance” for people’s holiday gatherings, Pelletier added.

Two weeks ago, Premier François Legault and the president of the Association of Quebec Police Directors Robert Pigeon announced that the time for police officers to issue warnings was over.

Police in Quebec plan to be out in full force during holidays to enforce COVID-19 health rules

It seems absurd but if there was more enforcement early on, maybe we wouldn't be here.

 

[stealth1]

Covid doesn’t have “magic” aerosols. Cloth masks don’t stop aerosols.
The peer reviewed study you linked doesn’t differentiate between droplets and aerosols. You see that, don’t you?

Why are we still going on and on and on and on about masks? They don't work 100%, every one knows that. When you add in physical distancing and people limiting their social interactions it does a lot to slow the spread.

 

[Future]

Sure they do. This has been in place since Sept 30th.

"Quebec gives police legal tools to enter homes quickly to stop gatherings during COVID-19"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/public-health-restrictions-quebec-covid-19-1.5745046

And in fact, there were also multiple warnings issues publicly before Christmas:

Eg:

While Quebec continues to shatter its COVID-19 daily case records, police around the province are warning the public that they will be out in full force making sure people are abiding by the social distancing measures.

“There will be additional staff that will be deployed in the field in order to respond to calls,” said David Pelletier, a spokesperson for the Quebec City Police Service (SPVQ).

Authorities say officers who will see violations will have a “low tolerance” for people’s holiday gatherings, Pelletier added.

Two weeks ago, Premier François Legault and the president of the Association of Quebec Police Directors Robert Pigeon announced that the time for police officers to issue warnings was over.

Police in Quebec plan to be out in full force during holidays to enforce COVID-19 health rules

It seems absurd but if there was more enforcement early on, maybe we wouldn't be here.

I wonder how this would hold up in court? Not well is my guess.

Either way, even if it is considered legal, it is certainly not right. Which is why this is going viral and garnering international attention.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why are we still going on and on and on and on about masks? They don't work 100%, every one knows that. When you add in physical distancing and people limiting their social interactions it does a lot to slow the spread.

It actually doesn't though. Masks don't really help, as covid largely spreads via tiny aerosols.

"the preponderance of scientific evidence supports that aerosols play a critical role in the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and that evidence is growing almost daily. Any respiratory protection respirator or mask must provide a high level of filtration and fit to be highly effective in preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2." Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/special_episode_masks_6.2.20_0.pdf


From the cdc themselves. “A surgical mask does NOT provide the wearer with a reliable level of protection from inhaling smaller airborne particles and is not considered respiratory protection".
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandingDifference3-508.pdf



Now I assume I'll be "anti-science" for listening to the cdc and cidrap...

 

[Pookie]

Covid doesn’t have “magic” aerosols. Cloth masks don’t stop aerosols.
The peer reviewed study you linked doesn’t differentiate between droplets and aerosols. You see that, don’t you?

You are getting into the weeds here. Droplets and Aerosols have different definitions but are best described as a spectrum. Droplets that become smaller in size breakdown to the point that gravity no longer effects their "buoyancy" remain suspended in air and become aerosols.

Therefore at it's simplest definition, a mask that prevents droplets from becoming aerosolized is having an effect on aerosols.

The scientific community is divided on whether aerosols carry enough viral load to be infectious. This question is harder to prove the further you are from the source. Think of a dandelion with its seeds blowing in the wind.

In the case of being distant from the source, the question of mask protection may be irrelevant depending on the flow of air and the dissipation of the aerosols. At the same time, if you are sitting in front of the cold air return of a ventilation system on a COVID floor at the hospital, it might be a bad decision.

 

[Pookie]

I wonder how this would hold up in court? Not well is my guess.

Either way, even if it is considered legal, it is certainly not right. Which is why this is going viral and garnering international attention.

Well, it's tough to watch a family having the cops at the door and a confrontation.

At the end of the day though, is the family breaking the rules or not?

How long do we want to see certain sectors experience economic hardship before we get this under control?

It will likely stand up in court. Powers under the Quarantine Act are well defined.

 

[Nineteen67]

Sure they do. This has been in place since Sept 30th.

"Quebec gives police legal tools to enter homes quickly to stop gatherings during COVID-19"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/public-health-restrictions-quebec-covid-19-1.5745046

And in fact, there were also multiple warnings issues publicly before Christmas:

Eg:

While Quebec continues to shatter its COVID-19 daily case records, police around the province are warning the public that they will be out in full force making sure people are abiding by the social distancing measures.

“There will be additional staff that will be deployed in the field in order to respond to calls,” said David Pelletier, a spokesperson for the Quebec City Police Service (SPVQ).

Authorities say officers who will see violations will have a “low tolerance” for people’s holiday gatherings, Pelletier added.

Two weeks ago, Premier François Legault and the president of the Association of Quebec Police Directors Robert Pigeon announced that the time for police officers to issue warnings was over.

Police in Quebec plan to be out in full force during holidays to enforce COVID-19 health rules

It seems absurd but if there was more enforcement early on, maybe we wouldn't be here.

Dumb, eh. Hence my slippery slope post.

 

[Pookie]

Dumb, eh. Hence my slippery slope post.

I get it.

At this moment, 4 families from my neighborhood are outside. The gents are drinking beer in the driveway. Kids are all sliding down the front lawn which has a slope. Wives in the garage chatting. No masks.

One of the dudes is an EMT Supervisor. Another a nurse. Two more are teachers.

I turned down the invite.

Do I call this in?

(No, I haven't)

But I tell ya... it's making me think.

 

[Nineteen67]

I get it.

At this moment, 4 families from my neighborhood are outside. The gents are drinking beer in the driveway. Kids are all sliding down the front lawn which has a slope. Wives in the garage chatting. No masks.

One of the dudes is an EMT Supervisor. Another a nurse. Two more are teachers.

I turned down the invite.

Do I call this in?

(No, I haven't)

But I tell ya... it's making me think.

Sounds like freedom to me. Don’t be a Karen.

I saw people going into bars to watch ball games and hockey games today. Their choice. All we can ask, stay away from the vulnerable . If the vulnerable are ok with them coming around, that’s their choice.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You are getting into the weeds here. Droplets and Aerosols have different definitions but are best described as a spectrum. Droplets that become smaller in size breakdown to the point that gravity no longer effects their "buoyancy" remain suspended in air and become aerosols.

Therefore at it's simplest definition, a mask that prevents droplets from becoming aerosolized is having an effect on aerosols.

The scientific community is divided on whether aerosols carry enough viral load to be infectious. This question is harder to prove the further you are from the source. Think of a dandelion with its seeds blowing in the wind.

In the case of being distant from the source, the question of mask protection may be irrelevant depending on the flow of air and the dissipation of the aerosols. At the same time, if you are sitting in front of the cold air return of a ventilation system on a COVID floor at the hospital, it might be a bad decision.

Should I belive "pookie on the internet" or Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy Aerosol expert Dr. Lisa Brosseau?

Tought one, that is...

It's astounding that people like me are considered "anti-science" for listening to what the experts actually say, as opposed to the dumbed-down media-spun version of science. The cidrap talks about this at great length. The media cites sources they don't understand and give a false conclusion of the study's findings.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I get it.

At this moment, 4 families from my neighborhood are outside. The gents are drinking beer in the driveway. Kids are all sliding down the front lawn which has a slope. Wives in the garage chatting. No masks.

One of the dudes is an EMT Supervisor. Another a nurse. Two more are teachers.

I turned down the invite.

Do I call this in?

(No, I haven't)

But I tell ya... it's making me think.

People ratting out their family/neighbours for standing up to draconian laws... they always think they'll be on the "right" side of history... but they never EVER are.

 

[Nineteen67]

Should I belive "pookie on the internet" or Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy Aerosol expert Dr. Lisa Brosseau?

Tought one, that is...

It's astounding that people like me are considered "anti-science" for listening to what the experts actually say, as opposed to the dumbed-down media-spun version of science. The cidrap talks about this at great length. The media cites sources they don't understand and give a false conclusion of the study's findings.

I just watched Team Canada walking across the bridge and fans outside cheering them on....wearing mask in a bubble and outside makes me scratch my head. Image, I suppose.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I just watched Team Canada walking across the bridge and fans outside cheering them on....wearing mask in a bubble and outside makes me scratch my head. Image, I suppose.

I wear a mask even outside now. Due to disinformation from the media and people like pookie, people have a very poor understanding of mask effectiveness. So it makes people around me more comfortable and prevents confrontations I’m not interested in dealing with.

 

[stealth1]

People ratting out their family/neighbours for standing up to draconian laws... they always think they'll be on the "right" side of history... but they never EVER are.

Huh. Weren't you the one who is all for complete lockdown to get rid of Covid? I personally have no issues ratting out anyone who has large gatherings.

 

[Pookie]

Sounds like freedom to me. Don’t be a Karen.

I saw people going into bars to watch ball games and hockey games today. Their choice. All we can ask, stay away from the vulnerable . If the vulnerable are ok with them coming around, that’s their choice.

do you know if the people going to the bars work with the vulnerable or live with people that work with the vulnerable?

 

[Pookie]

Should I belive "pookie on the internet" or Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy Aerosol expert Dr. Lisa Brosseau?

Tought one, that is...

It's astounding that people like me are considered "anti-science" for listening to what the experts actually say, as opposed to the dumbed-down media-spun version of science. The cidrap talks about this at great length. The media cites sources they don't understand and give a false conclusion of the study's findings.

edited... taking a breath...

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Huh. Weren't you the one who is all for complete lockdown to get rid of Covid? I personally have no issues ratting out anyone who has large gatherings.

I'm just pointing out what worked in Wuhan. Masks accomplished nothing. But house arrest for 1 month worked wonders. That one month would be much better for everyone than where we're at now 10 months later.

Half measures don't seem to be working. Look at what's happened in big cities in Canada and US that use half measures. The lie/excuse for that is "everybody's breaking the rules". But that's bullshit.

I literally can't belive that the general public bought into the argument that "Covid affects everybody everywhere. OTHER than inside of lobbying mega-influential corporations of course. You're fine there." It's insane.

We're going to look back on this in years and see the Walmarts crammed shoulder to shoulder, and then the video of that Quebec family being aggressively arrested for hanging out together. We're going to be baffled that people bought into it. Remember, every member of the Red Guard was certain they'd be on the right side of history.