Value of: Copp and Lehkonen on the NYR 3rd line

[Habs Halifax]

In the other lehkonene thread one idea was

Lehkonen + Ducks 3rd

For

Krvastov + Rnagers 2nd

If Lehkonen was a pending UFA, I might consider that trade.

 

[VijayPatel11]

Those are definitely the only other alternatives. The fact that you didn't stop to check that he is an RFA at the end of the season shows you don't know enough of the player to say he is not worth a first.



I assumed the same, your sentence formation is flawed then.

I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply was. I knew he was an RFA. The facts are: either he takes QO and leaves later, signs a terrible contract for MTL, or gets traded for what you would consider to be subpar return (but what a reasonable person would consider to be fine). Nobody's taking a team-friendly deal to stay in Montreal 0f all places...

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply was. I knew he was an RFA. The facts are: either he takes QO and leaves later, signs a terrible contract for MTL, or gets traded for what you would consider to be subpar return (but what a reasonable person would consider to be fine). Nobody's taking a team-friendly deal to stay in Montreal 0f all places...

Those are the facts? lol

We are happy to hold onto Lehkonen. Not sure why that annoys you so much. Fact is he is a RFA (which you really didn't know and are back-tracking) and the Habs really need his services next season. He's a valuable contributor and one that would take an overpayment to pry out of Montreal.

 

[VijayPatel11]

Those are the facts? lol

We are happy to hold onto Lehkonen. Not sure why that annoys you so much. Fact is he is a RFA (which you really didn't know and are back-tracking) and the Habs really need his services next season. He's a valuable contributor and one that would take an overpayment to pry out of Montreal.

I don't need you to tell me what I do and don't know, buddy. Please keep him, I would rather get a better player for my team.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't need you to tell me what I do and don't know, buddy. Please keep him, I would rather get a better player for my team.

Your right, you don't have to tell me what you don't know because its pretty obvious what you don't know. Furthermore, i am really hoping the Habs keep him and don't trade him at the TDL.

I also question why the NYR would even trade for Lehkonen given that they are not a contender. NYR are playing on house money and best to stand pat. Lehkonen is not going to change the NYR chances at winning a cup. That's a steep uphill climb...

 

[pld459666]

If Lehkonen was a pending UFA, I might consider that trade.

Interesting because the Rangers wouldn't make that offer

 

[Mersss]

Habs fans, if you want to keep Lekhonen, please, go ahead! Then he will walk in UFA and leave the habs worse off, or the habs will hand him a massive contract that he is not remotely worth. Demanding a 1st for a bottom 6 forward like Lekhonen isn't getting you anywhere.

See Goodrow and Coleman lol

 

[Goal Caufield50]

I really question NYR fans desire to make these kinds of trades when they have very little chance of competing for the cup. The better option is to go into the playoffs with what you have now and ride it out, and get experience for the young players. NYR should have no illusion of being a cup contender.

Ergo, it makes zero sense to trade for Copp / Lehkonen.

Teams have an age window and a cap window. The time is now as krieder, Zib and Bread are aging out and Laf, kako, and k’andre will need to be paid

 

[Goal Caufield50]

Your right, you don't have to tell me what you don't know because its pretty obvious what you don't know. Furthermore, i am really hoping the Habs keep him and don't trade him at the TDL.

I also question why the NYR would even trade for Lehkonen given that they are not a contender. NYR are playing on house money and best to stand pat. Lehkonen is not going to change the NYR chances at winning a cup. That's a steep uphill climb...

The rangers are a top 6 team in points at this point. Strong top 4 and top 6 f. Depth of bottom 6 is an issue. Time is now. Fox and zib contracts kick in next year adding $12mm in salary

 

[smoneil]

Teams have an age window and a cap window. The time is now as krieder, Zib and Bread are aging out and Laf, kako, and k’andre will need to be paid

Kreider and Bread are 30. Not 35+. Zib is what, 28? All three players will be just fine for several years to come. The cap is the issue. The Rangers don't have any space after this year, and none of the contracts that can create space can be easily moved due to NMC's. The team, collectively as a group, also has no playoff experience, which historically is THE crucial ingredient in a Cup winner (I went back more than 30 years, and only one team won the Cup after missing the playoffs more than one year prior to the Cup run, and that was the Canes, who benefitted from a strange situation with the lockout).

The smart move is to stay the course for two more seasons. Continue developing kids like Kakko, Laf, Chytil, and the young guys on D. Then, when the cap is set to go up in two years (ie: the projected end of the flat cap), they will have a team with playoff experience, the current kids will be entering their primes, Zib and Trouba will still just be 30 years old, and Kreider and Bread will be 32 as the "elder statesmen" of the roster. They'll also have kids like Othmann, Cuylle, Berard and co pushing for spots.

The time is not "now." Statistically (re: the playoff experience factor), winning "now" would be a massive anomaly. The Rangers window opens in two years. Any buying they DO do right now should be in the discount aisle.

That said, I am interested in Copp in UFA (depending on his ask) as a potential Strome replacement.

 

[JimmyG89]

See Goodrow and Coleman lol

See that the Rangers and Tampa were in completely different situations. Tampa failed year after year in the playoffs. They needed to win that season or last season.

The Rangers are just getting into contention. There is no demand for a cup. You're not dealing with a desperate team. You're dealing with a team just beginning their window of contention.

So a #1 pick for a defensive 3rd liner isn't where the team is. Are there teams that will drop a #1 for him? Probably, but not the Rangers.

Kravtsov and a 2nd is a good deal for both. 22 year old winger, drafted by their current GM. Former lottery pick. Needs a change of scenery. Size, good speed, good shot. Every Rangers fan had him penciled in for the 3rd line this summer, some even the 2nd line.

KHL numbers are good considering he's 5th on the team in ice time, and not on PP1. The next two weeks could be huge for his value. KHL playoffs are going on. 2G in their 1st game.

 

[Alluckks]

Coleman and Goodrow contracts are why they got what they got. It is stupid to apply that standard to Lehkonen who is being paid much more right now and will, most important, will be paid much more than those contracts next year.

 

[Doc5]

See that the Rangers and Tampa were in completely different situations. Tampa failed year after year in the playoffs. They needed to win that season or last season.

The Rangers are just getting into contention. There is no demand for a cup. You're not dealing with a desperate team. You're dealing with a team just beginning their window of contention.

So a #1 pick for a defensive 3rd liner isn't where the team is. Are there teams that will drop a #1 for him? Probably, but not the Rangers.

Kravtsov and a 2nd is a good deal for both. 22 year old winger, drafted by their current GM. Former lottery pick. Needs a change of scenery. Size, good speed, good shot. Every Rangers fan had him penciled in for the 3rd line this summer, some even the 2nd line.

KHL numbers are good considering he's 5th on the team in ice time, and not on PP1. The next two weeks could be huge for his value. KHL playoffs are going on. 2G in their 1st game.

I think what he meant is that there is a precedent set in terms of price for these types of players, so why would Montreal lower the price because the Rangers' time line is different? Rather find a contender then that is looking for such a player, possibly the Avs.

 

[JimmyG89]

I think what he meant is that there is a precedent set in terms of price for these types of players, so why would Montreal lower the price because the Rangers' time line is different? Rather find a contender then that is looking for such a player, possibly the Avs.

That's fine by me. Just stating why the Rangers moving a 1 for him isn't in the cards IMO. Kravtsov and 2nd gets you that 1st rounder value, but if Montreal wants picks over drafted players, I can't blame them.

 

[Doc5]

That's fine by me. Just stating why the Rangers moving a 1 for him isn't in the cards IMO. Kravtsov and 2nd gets you that 1st rounder value, but if Montreal wants picks over drafted players, I can't blame them.

Personally, I prefer recently drafted players over draft picks as they're further along on their development curve. I was initially a fan of the Kravstov + 2nd proposal but my only concerns are character related tbh.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

In the other lehkonene thread one idea was

Lehkonen + Ducks 3rd

For

Krvastov + Rnagers 2nd

That seems pretty reasonable as an outsider.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Your right, you don't have to tell me what you don't know because its pretty obvious what you don't know. Furthermore, i am really hoping the Habs keep him and don't trade him at the TDL.

I also question why the NYR would even trade for Lehkonen given that they are not a contender. NYR are playing on house money and best to stand pat. Lehkonen is not going to change the NYR chances at winning a cup. That's a steep uphill climb...

Please explain how a team with a solid top 4 D, star goalie and a good top 6 mixed with some grit and skill in the bottom 6 isn’t a contender? The OP is right, if New York could roll out a heavy min eating matchup 3rd line they are a nightmare matchup for anyone.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Personally, I prefer recently drafted players over draft picks as they're further along on their development curve. I was initially a fan of the Kravstov + 2nd proposal but my only concerns are character related tbh.

I think it’s more maturity issues with Kravstov than character issues. We had the same thing with Puljujarvi. People questioned his character while he was physically ready but not mentally ready. Now in his second stint he’s become a fan favourite.

If the Rangers are willing I’d do a 1-1 Kravstov for Foegele. Was a fan of the Bear for Foegele swap and while he’s looked better lately with RNH and Ryan we will need cap space next season to help fix the D and add a real goalie so I’d roll the dice on Kravstov. Edmonton is weak on RW after Puljujarvi so I’m theory it could work.

 

[bernmeister]

I think the Rangers have almost all the tools to surprise so-called "favorites" in this year's playoffs.

They have the most important part sorted out: the best goalie in the league.

They have a solid top 6 with players like Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Lafreniere and Strome.

They have a solid top 4 on D with Fox, Trouba, Miller and Lindgren.

They have the intimidation factor on the 4th line with Reaves.

They however lack that solid 3rd line with grit that can score and dominate matchups in the playoffs.

Goodrow is a great element, but I feel that if they can surround him well, that team could go very far.

Lehkonen-Copp-Goodrow could be on paper one of the best playoff kind of 3rd line in the league.

I think they have the assets to make it happen.

Copp: 27 y old C, 3,64 M caphit, UFA at the end if the year.

Lehkonen, 26 y old LW, 2,3 M caphit, RFA at the end of the year.

How much would that cost them total?

no pass do not want

Rangers aren't doing both. Even if you make an argument on whichever player being worth a 1st or 2nd plus really good prospect, Rangers aren't giving up 2 1st or 2 2nds and 2 real good prospects to revamp their 3rd line with 2 additions.

this^

I really question NYR fans desire to make these kinds of trades when they have very little chance of competing for the cup. The better option is to go into the playoffs with what you have now and ride it out, and get experience for the young players. NYR should have no illusion of being a cup contender.

Ergo, it makes zero sense to trade for Copp / Lehkonen.

this^

Kreider and Bread are 30. Not 35+. Zib is what, 28? All three players will be just fine for several years to come. The cap is the issue. The Rangers don't have any space after this year, and none of the contracts that can create space can be easily moved due to NMC's. The team, collectively as a group, also has no playoff experience, which historically is THE crucial ingredient in a Cup winner (I went back more than 30 years, and only one team won the Cup after missing the playoffs more than one year prior to the Cup run, and that was the Canes, who benefitted from a strange situation with the lockout).

The smart move is to stay the course for two more seasons. Continue developing kids like Kakko, Laf, Chytil, and the young guys on D. Then, when the cap is set to go up in two years (ie: the projected end of the flat cap), they will have a team with playoff experience, the current kids will be entering their primes, Zib and Trouba will still just be 30 years old, and Kreider and Bread will be 32 as the "elder statesmen" of the roster. They'll also have kids like Othmann, Cuylle, Berard and co pushing for spots.

The time is not "now." Statistically (re: the playoff experience factor), winning "now" would be a massive anomaly. The Rangers window opens in two years. Any buying they DO do right now should be in the discount aisle.

That said, I am interested in Copp in UFA (depending on his ask) as a potential Strome replacement.

ESPECIALLY this^

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Please explain how a team with a solid top 4 D, star goalie and a good top 6 mixed with some grit and skill in the bottom 6 isn’t a contender? The OP is right, if New York could roll out a heavy min eating matchup 3rd line they are a nightmare matchup for anyone.

I could be wrong but i don't see them getting past the likes of Florida, Carolina and especially Tampa. Too inexperienced.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

no pass do not want


this^


this^


ESPECIALLY this^

Bern, do we actually agree on something?????

 

[Kaiden Ghoul]

Id do 1st + small add for Copp. 2nd and Kravstov is highest im willing to go on Lehkonen.

done for me

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I could be wrong but i don't see them getting past the likes of Florida, Carolina and especially Tampa. Too inexperienced.

Tampa is the only proven team there. Carolina and Florida are contenders with strong rosters and good season to date. I think New York is in the conversation and has the goaltending to outclass Carolina. Bob is having a great rebound season. I see all these teams pretty interchangeable outside Tampa that is.

 

[HuGo Sham]

I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply was. I knew he was an RFA. The facts are: either he takes QO and leaves later, signs a terrible contract for MTL, or gets traded for what you would consider to be subpar return (but what a reasonable person would consider to be fine). Nobody's taking a team-friendly deal to stay in Montreal 0f all places...

this is all one needs to read about these clown takes to move on from trade discussions.
and habs aren't trading lehkonen for a 2nd - who might someday turn into a lehkonen maybe
or a shitty prospect that will never make the team

 

[Blue Chip Prospect]

Habs fans, if you want to keep Lekhonen, please, go ahead! Then he will walk in UFA and leave the habs worse off, or the habs will hand him a massive contract that he is not remotely worth. Demanding a 1st for a bottom 6 forward like Lekhonen isn't getting you anywhere.

Considering the fact that he would be the 5th most productive forward on the rangers while averaging ~ 14 minutes TOI and being an elite defensive winger, I’d much rather keep him than get him for scraps or a late 1st. Most late 1st don’t even become Lehk.