DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
Cirelli had 45 points last year, not 2nd line center numbers. Good two way 3rd line center.
Player Discussion: Conor Geekie
- Thread starter TheDaysOf 04
- Start date
JTBF81
Registered User
So you've brought up last year and a terribly weak argument for this year. The facts are that he's at 21 points in 18 games, is playing great as the 2C, and has been and remains the 2C.
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
You sound like the Sharks fans who argued that Tomas Hertl was a number one center because they didn't have one and he was just playing #1 center.....Cirelli is a good two way 3rd line center.......
JTBF81
Registered User
It's okay to be wrong, which you are. So many on here clamored how bad he was, not a 2C, should be moved etc. At least most have stopped that worthless narrative for now, but please continue your erroneous takes.
He's absolutely been a complete blackhole for offense the last two years. That's an objective observation.
...and then Stamkos left and now he looks like a Selke finalist. Quite obvious at this point that Stamkos was an anchor, but Cirelli also needed the right linemates. Hagel and him need to be permanently stapled to one another.
...and then Stamkos left and now he looks like a Selke finalist. Quite obvious at this point that Stamkos was an anchor, but Cirelli also needed the right linemates. Hagel and him need to be permanently stapled to one another.
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
Singlehandedly?
JTBF81
Registered User
He actually improved last year offensively to 20 goals and 45 points. Granted it was a small improvement, but he's very capable as a 2C given his usual assignments and defensive play as well.
Except they already have won 2 cups and beaten the Leafs in a playoff series with Cirelli as 2C, but okay....
Cirelli is playing excellent. Having Hagel stapled to his line really helps
Through the first 20 NHL games of his career Geekie has 3 goals, 3 assists, 6 points
For comparison here's some other players through their first 20 games who were 19 or 20 years old
Brett Connolly: 4 goals + 3 assists = 7 points
Connolly made his NHL debut at age 19. He started off well, but after 20 games he started to hit his rookie wall. Yzerman sent him away from the team to play in the World Juniors, and he would score 0 goals, and 8 assists through the remaining 48 games of his rookie season.
Jonathan Drouin: 1 goal + 10 assists = 11 points
Drouin - another 19 year old that Yzerman kept on the Bolts because he was too good for juniors, but not old enough for the AHL. 11 points in his first 20 games, but only 4 goals in 70 games his whole rookie year. His 28 assists though are one of the more productive numbers by a Lightning rookie in franchise history even with bottom line minutes next to guys like Brian Boyle, Brendan Morrow, JT Brown, and rookies Ceddy Paquette, and Vladdy Namestnikov
Nikita Kucherov: 6 goals + 3 assists = 9 points (nov- jan)
20 years old like Geekie, but Kucherov did not make his NHL debut until Nov 25th after spending the first 17 games in Syracuse.
Anthony Cirelli: 5 goals + 6 assists = 11 points (18 games)
Like Kucherov, Cirelli didn't start right out of training camp, not making his debut until March 1st, spending the first 51 games of the year in Syracuse. His 11 points with the Bolts are in the Bolts final 18 games down the stretch which you could argue are much harder than a team's first 18 games in October and November.
Brayden Point: 2 goals + 5 assists = 7 points
20 years old, right out of camp, getting some top 6 minutes and pp time to start - this is probably the most similar experience to Geekie's. Only 2 goals to start the year, but he finishes with 18 goals in 68 games
For comparison here's some other players through their first 20 games who were 19 or 20 years old
Brett Connolly: 4 goals + 3 assists = 7 points
Connolly made his NHL debut at age 19. He started off well, but after 20 games he started to hit his rookie wall. Yzerman sent him away from the team to play in the World Juniors, and he would score 0 goals, and 8 assists through the remaining 48 games of his rookie season.
Jonathan Drouin: 1 goal + 10 assists = 11 points
Drouin - another 19 year old that Yzerman kept on the Bolts because he was too good for juniors, but not old enough for the AHL. 11 points in his first 20 games, but only 4 goals in 70 games his whole rookie year. His 28 assists though are one of the more productive numbers by a Lightning rookie in franchise history even with bottom line minutes next to guys like Brian Boyle, Brendan Morrow, JT Brown, and rookies Ceddy Paquette, and Vladdy Namestnikov
Nikita Kucherov: 6 goals + 3 assists = 9 points (nov- jan)
20 years old like Geekie, but Kucherov did not make his NHL debut until Nov 25th after spending the first 17 games in Syracuse.
Anthony Cirelli: 5 goals + 6 assists = 11 points (18 games)
Like Kucherov, Cirelli didn't start right out of training camp, not making his debut until March 1st, spending the first 51 games of the year in Syracuse. His 11 points with the Bolts are in the Bolts final 18 games down the stretch which you could argue are much harder than a team's first 18 games in October and November.
Brayden Point: 2 goals + 5 assists = 7 points
20 years old, right out of camp, getting some top 6 minutes and pp time to start - this is probably the most similar experience to Geekie's. Only 2 goals to start the year, but he finishes with 18 goals in 68 games
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Aside from points, he's doing a lot of little things better that probably aren't being noticed. I still wouldn't ask him to shadow a skilled player in space, but his awareness is getting there.
He's got the tools to be a monster on the forecheck and along the boards, right now he's just holding his head above water. Playing with Hagel and Cirelli, I hope he starts to absorb some of that. He's got the shot to compliment those two.
He's got the tools to be a monster on the forecheck and along the boards, right now he's just holding his head above water. Playing with Hagel and Cirelli, I hope he starts to absorb some of that. He's got the shot to compliment those two.
The position that Cirelli not playing up to his contract or producing like a #2C was valid every year until this one. Last year was his career best with 45 points which put him as the 67th most productive center in the league - third line center territory. In 6 seasons, he only scored more than 40 points three times.
He had been underwhelming offensively, but good defensively, for six straight seasons which is why people said he's more of a good 3C than a 2C. What you call a "worthless narrative" was an accurate assessment.
It's taken 7 seasons to find someone he has great chemistry with in Hagel, a player who excelled with Point and Kucherov - I don't think that's a small part of the equation. But credit where it's due, Cirelli looks like a different player, shooting with accuracy and confidence, currently with a shoot % of 23.7, well above his career average. Engblom has talked about him practicing with Kucherov this offseason, that apparently has made a difference as well.
I welcome his emergence as it's far exceeding what I would have ever thought possible. I missed the predictions on the forum this year where everyone but "the haters" were saying he'd be on pace for 37 goals and 90 points through 20 games.
JTBF81
Registered User
There has always been far more to hos game than points scored. He was slightly overpaid by 500-750k perhaps, but he has always been a solid enough 2C for the team. Plenty on here thought moving him was the correct move this past summer, but as I and a few others argued, Sergachev was the clear player to go. Even now, some on here think trading him would be a good idea, which is something else, even for the usual "we'll blame Cirelli when things go badly" crowd. Many had already turned him into this year's scapegoat before the season even started, but now most will have to find someone else (aside from one or two who are still hilariously pinning any Lightning failure on him).
I was hoping for 55-60 points on average moving ahead, and who knows where he'll end up, but it's been fairly clear that management and the coaching staff believed in his game and abilities despite not hitting certain point totals. While no one expected what his pace has been so far, he does seem to be taking another step forward with the offensive side of his game. Hopefully, this will continue, but even if he regressed a little, he appears to be locked in as the 2C for at least several more seasons. For the minority on here who did think he was worth keeping and had this level in him, it's great to see.
It wasn't a majority who wanted to trade him. I was unhappy with his contract and performance, but I didn't think we'd get enough back in a trade to make to actually team better, so I wasn't in the minority who wanted to trade him. I wasn't happy with Sergachev's contract either, but also didn't want to trade him as he was the replacement for Hedman, who is declining, but JBB continues to plan for the short term rather than the medium term.
Another part of my dissatisfaction with Cirelli was partially Cooper's fault for playing him at 2C and Stamkos on wing for many of his last years here. Stamkos showed what he could still do at center as late as the 21-22 season with Kuch on his wing - 42 goals and 106 points and a +24! Then it was back to the wing for him and 40 point Cirelli as our 2C. If anyone would say, that was all Kuch - we've never seen Cirelli have any chemistry with Kuch, including this season as well. He's great with Hagel and seemingly that's it for the players on the current team.
Every non-casual fan of the team knows there's more to Cirelli's game than his previously middling offense. That's not an argument for him to be 2C (epsecially when we still had Stamkos) rather than a good 3C.
It seems human nature to take to the internet more often when you're unhappy than happy and I think that's definitely true of sports forums as well. Our gameday threads often have more responses on losses than wins. Thus the vocal minority can seem like the majority. Many of those are often the more casual fans as well. This also seems to lead to the position that there are no valid criticisms on this website. Your above characterization of some of the criticisms of Cirelli is a caricature -
You call it a crowd rather than the likely few people who truly think that way. If reading those posts are souring you on anyone who doesn't only have positive things to say, use the block feature.
Cirelli's performance this year is great for every fan of this team (and really, who would read an internet forum if they weren't into the topic?). I've been both shocked and enjoying it, because I watch this team to see it do well, even when I complain about it or its management. I've been watching since 94 and I've truly never seen a player so consistent in their production for 6 straight years and break out the way he currently is. The only other player I can think of is one of our assistant coaches - Halpern - when he scored 10 goals in 19 games when he became our #2 center back then before getting injured, if I remember correctly.
Another part of my dissatisfaction with Cirelli was partially Cooper's fault for playing him at 2C and Stamkos on wing for many of his last years here. Stamkos showed what he could still do at center as late as the 21-22 season with Kuch on his wing - 42 goals and 106 points and a +24! Then it was back to the wing for him and 40 point Cirelli as our 2C. If anyone would say, that was all Kuch - we've never seen Cirelli have any chemistry with Kuch, including this season as well. He's great with Hagel and seemingly that's it for the players on the current team.
Every non-casual fan of the team knows there's more to Cirelli's game than his previously middling offense. That's not an argument for him to be 2C (epsecially when we still had Stamkos) rather than a good 3C.
It seems human nature to take to the internet more often when you're unhappy than happy and I think that's definitely true of sports forums as well. Our gameday threads often have more responses on losses than wins. Thus the vocal minority can seem like the majority. Many of those are often the more casual fans as well. This also seems to lead to the position that there are no valid criticisms on this website. Your above characterization of some of the criticisms of Cirelli is a caricature -
You call it a crowd rather than the likely few people who truly think that way. If reading those posts are souring you on anyone who doesn't only have positive things to say, use the block feature.
Cirelli's performance this year is great for every fan of this team (and really, who would read an internet forum if they weren't into the topic?). I've been both shocked and enjoying it, because I watch this team to see it do well, even when I complain about it or its management. I've been watching since 94 and I've truly never seen a player so consistent in their production for 6 straight years and break out the way he currently is. The only other player I can think of is one of our assistant coaches - Halpern - when he scored 10 goals in 19 games when he became our #2 center back then before getting injured, if I remember correctly.
Why has the Geekie thread turned into a Cirelli thread?
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
- 26,194
- 11,273
JTBF81
Registered User
There were plenty on here against keeping Cirelli and willing to put the heavy blame on any Tampa failures on him, not just a small number. I usually don't block ppl either except in specific cases. Anyway, ad was pointed out, this is the Geekie forum so I'm done with Cirelli in here. Now I will admit to being wrong about Geekie in regards to him needing time in Syracuse first. He was clearly ready for his spot on the team.
bigdaddio
Registered User
- Jan 22, 2019
- 1,097
- 1,373
His ability to grind and get pucks is impressive. The scoring will come but he does exactly what we need from him right now.
That was my initial stance as well, didn't want our best prospect to get rushed too fast. Thankfully they (Cooper and Co) were right.
Naw you weren't wrong, he needs minutes and still could use extra game time in the AHL. I think what we were all wrong about was that the lack of minutes up here would hurt his development, and its clear that working with the coaches/players up here has more than made up for that. He's never lost his confidence.
I don't know about you all, but I was thinking Cooper would give him the Kucherov treatment and relegate him permanently to the checking line instead of weening him in like he's done. He gets PP time, he gets regular shifts with the 2nd line. I'm a fan of how he's been handled.
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
Current pace for him is 12-12-24 and that would honestly be a fantastic first season for him as a 20 year old in the role he is in. He really does a lot of small things well and that'll only benefit him.
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Is it me or is his physicality lacking? Not a critique cause he has plenty of time to develop and I don't expect him to crush people, but along the boards I feel like he's pushed off easier than his frame should allow for. If he can fill out and use his upper body like Maroon, what a f***ing player he's gonna be. Right now he easily gets a pass, but for those that have watched him, has he always played like this or is he more assertive on the boards?
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
- 29,044
- 19,741
Yeah physicality isn't all there for a guy his frame he does love to crash the net though. Board play could use some work, that's going to come as he gets stronger/older so not too worried.
I think you've already said it, at 20 years old he's going to have grow into that frame. Lecavalier at 20 years old was consistently rag dolled.
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