Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[klefbombs shoulder]

Mack is winning it unless like i said he falls off a cliff. If mack can finish with at least 135-140 its his. The media are salivating at the thought. Also has many more goals than mcdavid which usually factors in voting

Thanks for repeating what you said again. I will also. The Hart is absolutely not locked down. Its a very interesting 3 horse race.

 

[blundluntman]

People who think this I believe are either severely underrating what McDavid is doing right now, are severely overrating players from the past due to the mythology that builds around them, or both.

Of course the Art Ross & Hart are still very much up in the air for this season but I think we can all agree there's a very good chance McDavid wins both. Humour me and assume so.

At age 27(!) in only his 9th NHL season he will have tied both Lemieux and Howe in scoring titles and tied Howe and surpassed Lemieux in MVP's. He will hit 1000 points very early (like first few games early) into next season. He still has likely 6-7 more years of being elite of the elite and 10 more years of being a productive top tier player.

Not only is Howe in reach I think it's almost inevitable he will have a better career than Howe.

Mario and Orr peaked higher although not by much tbh. Orr played only 650 games. McDavid being close enough in terms of peak but playing more than double the games would make it a real discussion.

Era adjusted, McDavid honestly isn't offensively that far off from 66 at all. If he can win 2-3 more Art Ross than Mario did and 1-2 more MVP's and 300-400 more points, you're saying there's still nothing to discuss?

I love how you conveniently ignored the part right after where I said "unless he _____" and explained my criteria.

 

[VanIsle]

I believe he will be #4, he hasn't proved to be better then Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr at this time. Damn good company though. .. . .

 

[jigglysquishy]

He's my favourite but if McDavid wins the Ross after clawing back from 22 points down and gets 105-110 assists I can see voters giving it to him.

I thought Howe had 4 Harts, I stand corrected.

You've repeatedly shown ignorance on Howe's career. Not knowing about his broken skull or his Hart collection.

You have way too much confidence discussing a player you aren't familiar with.

There's nothing wrong with no knowing. There's a lot wrong claiming to be an expert if you aren't

 

[HFpapi]

I love how you conveniently ignored the part right after where I said "unless he _____" and explained my criteria.

Because it was an incredibly arbitrary and non important condition. Unless he scores 100+ points at 37?

Why can't McDavid pass them without the condition of scoring 100+ points in his late 30's?

McDavid might have 8 scoring titles, 5 MVP's and 2000 points when he's 34/35. Who cares what he does after that.

You've repeatedly shown ignorance on Howe's career. Not knowing about his broken skull or his Hart collection.

You have way too much confidence discussing a player you aren't familiar with.

There's nothing wrong with no knowing. There's a lot wrong claiming to be an expert if you aren't

I'll wait while you find me that claim

 

[blundluntman]

Because it was an incredibly arbitrary and non important condition. Unless he scores 100+ points at 37?

Why can't McDavid pass them without the condition of scoring 100+ points in his late 30's?

McDavid might have 8 scoring titles, 5 MVP's and 2000 points when he's 34/35. Who cares what he does after that.


I'll wait while you find me that claim

It wasn't arbitrary or unimportant at all... I'll make it simple for you. McDavid will not peak as high as Mario, Orr, or Gretzky. He'll need an extremely long prime with great longevity for him to make it an argument like Gordie Howe did. It's not that hard to comprehend.

 

[HighAndTight]

That he seemed pretty confident no one would be ever be as good as the big 4. Which is boring. You always hope that the best is yet to come.

But that wasn't what was said. He said no one currently playing and that is true.

 

[crowfish]

It wasn't arbitrary or unimportant at all... I'll make it simple for you. McDavid will not peak as high as Mario, Orr, or Gretzky. He'll need an extremely long prime with great longevity for him to make it an argument like Gordie Howe did. It's not that hard to comprehend.

I think you are way underestimating how dominant Connor McDavid is. Who is to say this is not peaking as high as Orr or Mario? The Excel conditional formatting has no bias; it just knows when a certain number is not like the others. Lemieux very closely matched Gretzky's production in their respective era. McDavid is running laps ahead of the 2nd best production in his era.

Pts/game

 

[Frosty415]

I think you are way underestimating how dominant Connor McDavid is. Who is to say this is not peaking as high as Orr or Mario? The Excel conditional formatting has no bias; it just knows when a certain number is not like the others. Lemieux very closely matched Gretzky's production in their respective era. McDavid is running laps ahead of the 2nd best production in his era.

Pts/game

View attachment 844868

These kids don't know man, this current era is completely being dominated by McD, haven't seen such a high hockey IQ since Lemieux.

 

[blankall]

I think you are way underestimating how dominant Connor McDavid is. Who is to say this is not peaking as high as Orr or Mario? The Excel conditional formatting has no bias; it just knows when a certain number is not like the others. Lemieux very closely matched Gretzky's production in their respective era. McDavid is running laps ahead of the 2nd best production in his era.

Pts/game

View attachment 844868

That's a pretty arbitrary split. The pre salary cap era had the pre and post trap/obstruction era. The post salary cap era actually saw goals dip dramatically until about 2016, when McDavid entered the league, largely due to goalie equipment size changes. So you had guys like Crosby and ovechkin playing their primes in largely low scoring eras.

 

[blundluntman]

I think you are way underestimating how dominant Connor McDavid is. Who is to say this is not peaking as high as Orr or Mario? The Excel conditional formatting has no bias; it just knows when a certain number is not like the others. Lemieux very closely matched Gretzky's production in their respective era. McDavid is running laps ahead of the 2nd best production in his era.

Pts/game

View attachment 844868

Mario and Gretzky's ppg levels are miles higher than other players that played into their 30s which lowered their ppgs unlike Orr and Bossy. Mario/Gretzky are .6 ppg higher than Marcel Dionne that's double the level of separation McDavid has created from his closest peers. And Orr's peak isn't just about his offense, he was also simultaneously the best or 2nd best defensively at the same time. McDavid is an absolute monster, but just look at the level of separation Gretzky and Lemieux created from their peers at their peaks (not career ppg, it was substantially higher during their peaks). It's simply not the same.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

I think you are way underestimating how dominant Connor McDavid is. Who is to say this is not peaking as high as Orr or Mario? The Excel conditional formatting has no bias; it just knows when a certain number is not like the others. Lemieux very closely matched Gretzky's production in their respective era. McDavid is running laps ahead of the 2nd best production in his era.

Pts/game

View attachment 844868

Gretzky averaged close to 2.5 ppg when he was McDavid’s age. If McDavid plays until age 38 or so his average will probably drop off a fair amount too.

 

[crowfish]

Gretzky averaged close to 2.5 ppg when he was McDavid’s age. If McDavid plays until age 38 or so his average will probably drop off a fair amount too.

McDavid has been averaging far more than 1.5 points per game over the past couple of years. His PPG is still on the incline. I only see it going lower if he plays long enough to reach 2000 points.

 

[blankall]

McDavid has been averaging far more than 1.5 points per game over the past couple of years. His PPG is still on the incline. I only see it going lower if he plays long enough to reach 2000 points.

The increases in points over the last couple of years likely has more to do with league scoring going up than McDavid's play.

 

[Video Nasty]

The increases in points over the last couple of years likely has more to do with league scoring going up than McDavid's play.

2020-2021: 2.94 GPG - 105 points in 56 games (1.875 PPG)

2021-2022: 3.14 GPG - 123 points in 80 games (1.538 PPG)

2022-2023: 3.18 GPG - 153 points in 82 games (1.866 PPG)

2023-2024: 3.11 GPG - 126 points in 71 games (1.775 PPG)

Wrong.

 

[blankall]

2020-2021: 2.94 GPG - 105 points in 56 games (1.875 PPG)

2021-2022: 3.14 GPG - 123 points in 80 games (1.538 PPG)

2022-2023: 3.18 GPG - 153 points in 82 games (1.866 PPG)

2023-2024: 3.11 GPG - 126 points in 71 games (1.775 PPG)

Wrong.

This doesn't even show an upward trend. It just shows an off year in 2021/22.

 

[Video Nasty]

This doesn't even show an upward trend. It just shows an off year in 2021/22.

So which one is it, blank?

 

[Goose]

He's not doing relative to his peers what Lemieux or Orr did, so I can't quite get there in terms of #2, but I can maybe buy #4.

The real answer though is you can't compare across eras and it's all poppycock talk.

 

[Toby91ca]

He's not doing relative to his peers what Lemieux or Orr did, so I can't quite get there in terms of #2, but I can maybe buy #4.

The real answer though is you can't compare across eras and it's all poppycock talk.

He’s not doing relative to peers what Howe did either

 

[Despote]

He’s not doing relative to peers what Howe did either

McDavid would be closing in on a 8th consecutive scoring title starting as a teenager compared to all-Canadian peers.

 

[Crow]

McDavid would be closing in on a 8th consecutive scoring title starting as a teenager compared to all-Canadian peers.

But he’s not.

 

[waitin425]

Win a Cup + Conn Smythe and Olympic Gold or Bust

 

[HFpapi]

McDavid would be closing in on a 8th consecutive scoring title starting as a teenager compared to all-Canadian peers.

You're wasting your breath fingers. Some people in this thread don't care that Howe won 6 scoring titles in 25 NHL seasons against talent from only 4 Canadian provinces whereas McDavid has 5 in 8 seasons and maybe 6 in 9 two weeks from now in an era where scoring titles are being won by Czechs, Americans, Russians, Germans, and Swedes. McDavid apparently can never match Howe's dominance over his peers. Make it make sense.

 

[66871]

To be fair he has 2 seasons where he is head and shoulders above the rest

2015-2016 he wasn't the best
2016-2017 --> he and Crosby was very similar in production (100 pts vs 97 pt pace)
2017-2018 --> he had 4/5 guys within 10 pts of his production (Malkin, Mack, Hall, Giroux, Kuch)
2018 - 2019 --> Kucherov was better than him
2019 - 2020 --> Draisaitl was better than him
2020 - 2021 --> Clear cut best player, was 25-30 pts better than anyone else
2021-2022 --> Matthews was very close pace-wise (120 vs 125 I think) and Gaudreau/Huberdeau both were at 115
2022 - 2023 --> He is again 25-30 pts better than anyone else (Draisaitl his teammate and Mack/Kuch being the challengers for 2nd)

Someone on these boards granted Crosby a 'grace year' as best in the world. I believe it was 2017-2018, Please update your analysis accordingly. /s

Kidding aside, I think he seems destined to pierce the top 4 in some way. Perhaps as high as 2nd. But he probably will need to win 2+ cups to be anything more than the 5th of a big 5. And honestly without any cups he may not even surpass Crosby in the eyes of some.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Mack is winning it unless like i said he falls off a cliff. If mack can finish with at least 135-140 its his. The media are salivating at the thought. Also has many more goals than mcdavid which usually factors in voting

Lol, no. Kucherov is just as deserving as MacKinnon. McDavid might lose out due to voter fatigue and the fact that he might barely hit 30 goals but those 100 assists that haven't been seen since Lemieux might help him.